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[BTS] BOTM 200 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by Noble Zarkon, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, particularly anything after 1000AD
    Did you win?

    Reading Requirements

    If you are participating in BOTM 200 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
    • You have submitted your entry

    Posting Restrictions

    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
     
  2. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    So Culture it was for the one-eyed Chinoclopes and their beautiful UB might have helped a lot in absence of any religion. At least I didn't see any, but I am a notorious bad scout.

    The 2 and 3rd city reached L-status at exactly turn 250 in 1700 AD. I was wondering myself how can a city produce over 1K cpt without temples and cathedrals? It was not even the wonder building, because my first city was not the capital with most of the wonders. It was the city around the pig/marble to the south with double gems and double dye. So lots of commerce converted into culture and 12 artist specialists thanks to Sushi. The capital had great commerce too but other tasks from to time like getting Oxford/observatory, so I was running Engineers and Scientists and less focus on culture.

    Sushi corp is great because it gives so much food to the city. And if all the other cities produce wealth you can afford to get lots of seafood + rice. Corporations outweigh the benefits from State Property by a lot, so I went mercantilism again.

    If you go Medicine anyway, it's obvious to get also radio for the Eiffel Tower. All those techs like Bio, Medicine, Radio have nice synergies for culture victory.

    In my third city I purchased the National Park for 1K gold to keep on growing over any limit. And the capital had the Globe Theatre long ago.

    Last but not least, culture was only possibl due to all the fine ressources and to my friend Brontes who would have protected me in any case.

    What was interesting, when we had reached music together, I got the Artist, when we made it to Communism, HE got the Spy. So for physics, I put him on something else one turn earliero to get the scientist for sure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  3. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Well, that did not go well.

    I tried to rush astronomy but failed to get 2 great scientists to bulb it. Once privateers showed up my economy went into strike with all cities building wealth. Once I got astronomy it did not help as everyone hated me. I retired in 1858 as I had galleons vs destroyers and longbowmen/knights vs infantery.

    Atlas was a complete disaster. I do not think he ever researched more then 20% after the first 60 turns.
     
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  4. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

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    Well.... it's 1625AD and I'm giving up on this one.

    After 1000AD I rolled up some barb cities that were blocking trade routes with my team mate since I hooked up Iron. I moved my palace to the sheep location. My caravels found some nice islands in the middle of the ocean, so I increased my effort towards Astro and settled them. While killing a significant portion of my income (Colossus obsolete) trade gold jumped up lake crazy and peaked at 160gpt all together. I started raising an army to invade the Olympians. Meanwhile Achilles had dug his own grave against them and their pace seemed to accelerate (which had been low like mine and the single civ's).

    So 1580AD I invade on a hill next to his capital. I intend to bomb his 100% defence down and keep draining the city till I see the numbers of his reinforcements fade.
    2 turns later Poseidon's main army arrives already:

    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG


    Not everything is visible. There's also a train of catapults in there and other loose units. My fleet is still underway picking up the 2nd half of my army. This looks very tricky.

    But he doesn't attack. It moves to the citiy south. When I drop of the rest of my main forces I get to learn the reason why. He also has a 2nd half of an army and now the 45-headed snake attacks. My army stands its ground amazingly well and kills 30 units, while losing 12. A GG appears. Once he reaches the frontline as a medic the siege can carry on

    Then it turns out this is the peak of the existence of the Titans.
    What can also be seen in the pic is the red fists from the cyclopes, raised when I dowed the Olympians. 1625AD they DoW and the last prospects of a good end crumble. My trade income collapses. I already have 3 unhappy from war weariness. 2 more unhappy pop up from emancipation demands. Frigates appear and soon deadly armies will follow. So all of this is a tiny bit too much for the fragile 17-city tundra empire.

    This was an interesting game. I didn't expect an all-tundra game when I started. But it turned out not totally unworkable. Then the huge negative diplo turned the situation from isolation to a ''peaceful AW-game'', which is a heavy burden on top of this weak position. I expected a relative high tech pace among the AI, because tech cost was only ±35% higher. To my surprise several civ's remained ''in sight'', which gave me good hope to escape misery eventually, as long as the monstrous cyclopes would remain passive. Though, maybe there was a huge Zeus army headed for my invasion too. The Olympians were definitely stronger than I expected.

    I probably won't be playing BOTM201 as Atlas by the way. He does not have better potential I think. Back to a nicer game as a contender .......
     
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  5. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Well played Powerfaker. You did a lot better then me. The total isolation and terrible land with team mate slowing your tech rate is a very challenging game.
     
  6. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

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    @Folket
    Thanks. You survived more than 2 centuries longer though. Did you play to the very end? I could move on till I'm totally destroyed. I doubt I can stretch my defeat that far (and I wouldn't want to either, I prefer not to waste time on a sinking ship :) , especially since in this BOTM there's no backdoor victory possible).
     
  7. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    I surrendered when the cyclopes declared war. I realized there was nothing I could do.
     
  8. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    I hate raging barbarians so much that I played the Adventurer save just for the Great Wall effects. I went beeline to Iron Working to use the jungle resources, and expanded so fast I had to max commerce to avoid a strike, so the tech rate could have been better. Liberalism was curious - I did not get to pick a free tech.... I guess my teammate got that honor but for the life of me I have no idea what he took - definitely not what I was aiming for (I was aiming for Astronomy iirc). Anyhow, I found it to be FAR easier than a normal Immortal level game. By the time I met everyone with the help of Optics, I found I faced teams and individual civs that didn't have even alphabet. Only Zeus could put up a decent fight. Rather than take forever for conquest, I settled for an easy laid-back domination in 1625AD. I suppose the raging barbs gave the other civs some troubles :mwaha:. Ironically, I lost several workers to barbarians late just because I got so used to the GW effects that I forgot to consider it only works on the continent it was built.:blush:

    Note: After submitting, I played the Contender save (with prior map knowledge) and thought I was doing OK until meeting Arges. That huge and lush continent would be a beast to take on. Lots of XP fighting barbs, and eventually their place to spawn is shut off, so that wasn't the issue. It was more the Arges team just gets too big to fail before I could get astronomy. I praise anyone who took Contender and did a fast finish. Any Challenger winners should be put in the hall of fame - that start would have been truly awful.
     
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  9. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    @kcd_swede
    That is curious that you lost the free tech choice from Lib. But your teammate must have picked SOMETHING, right?
    I lost the Spy attached to communism to Brontes so when it came to Physics, i set him on sonething else one turn before...
     
  10. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    I knew to switch him to something else, but hit end turn before doing so because of carelessness. And no, I did not get a notice that someone got to liberalism first and could see no tech that the team got for free... but there could have been some crappy cheap tech left, idk. I thought he should have at least taken Nationalism like AI tend to do in a normal set-up, but no. Kind of weird.
     
  11. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    According to the log your team did indeed discover liberalism:-

    Edit: However there is no evidence of a tech being selected!
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020
  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    One of the closest, most memorable games ever! Some of AI civs were a threat and some an extreme threat.
    After learning the 'impossible' victories of religious and conquest were actually impossible, I targeted the next most 'impossible' vc.
    (That coulda been culture, but you kinda have to go for culture from the start, not T150.)
    So, since the evil mapmaker made almost everyone have -50 diplo against us, I decided on:
    Diplomatic, UN victory
    I almost gave up when no one would trade tech with me.
    And again when I saw the -50 diplo, but then saw a tiny light. Zeus did not have this artificial hate. Of course, with Poseidon's -50 the team saw us as Worst Enemy and would not trade anything.

    Zeus immediately declares war on (blue), so I do too. Open Borders with Zeus. Nice trade routes.
    My Great Scientist is able to completely explore Zeus/Poseidon.

    Shared war bonus starting to build.
    Blue bribes Yellow into attacking Zeus too. Great, keep him busy.

    My Great Merchant explores Cyclops and eventually does a 1500:gold: mission to the capital.

    Step 1: Kill Poseidon to erase the -50 diplo
    At turn 160, Achilles had no roads! Did barbs destroy them? No, he had not learned The Wheel, or even Fishing :crazyeye:
    So, it made sense to attack here first and get a foothold. I use Mace-a-pult
    With aggressive civ + vassalage + barracks, I can get amphibious Maces if I want, but mostly go with City Raider.

    plan 1b: My hope was, now being land target with Zeus would mean they would DoW me (to save on -diplo), but I couldn't let him upgrade his defenses.
    Almost every Poseidon city is defended by only 1 LB + 2 axes, so I pounce.
    I must only DoW once for permanent -3 diplo. No cease fires!
    This meant that I was drowning in war weariness (statue of Zeus) and I had to work as fast as possible. I took a lot of extra losses at the end.
    :devil: One tricky move was, since Zeus goes before Poseidon, I'd let him recapture the city and kill some of my stragglers while my army moved on to the next Poseidon city. I needed this war to end!

    Step 2 : Get Friendly Zeus.
    Once Poseidon is completely dead, I liberate some border cities to Zeus for +1.5 diplo each. And, I settle some extras up north and give him those. After all, it's all votes for me eventually.
    Then there's +5 shared Vassalage, and +4 shared war, etc. Eventually, he was +23 Friendly.

    plan 2b: Catch up in tech
    Free from Zeus: Gunpowder, Nationalism, guilds, banking, Const, HBR, drama, Aes (mono, lit), Econ, Military Tradition
    Should I bulb my way thru Physics, electr, get MassMedia and build UN? No, Just wait for Cyclops to do that :thumbsup:
    Instead, get Rifling! 1818AD I'm first to Rifling! I even beat the Cyclops.

    Step 3: Kill blue and yellow
    I use Nationhood to draft 3 rifles per turn for....like forever.
    I spend a couple thousand gold to upgrade some CR3 maces to insanely powerful Riflemen.
    I don't bother with siege. Just attack mostly longbows with 60% culture defense (ignoring castles)

    Step 4: Survive the Inevitable Cyclops war
    I suffered a bit thru the Privateers, but it wasn't too bad.
    They had dozens of Destroyers replacing Pirates now which were harmless by comparison (so far)
    I only had Galleons which were all hiding.
    I can't recall the last time, if ever, the AI attacked me from the sea.
    Their army was surprisingly well-suited considering I had 'only' Rifles. They dropped 3 cannons and 9 Grenadiers! +50% against Riflemen! :wallbash: Right next to my capital.
    But! that bonus is only attacking, so I whipped rifles and drafted more in the cities nearby. Attacking his stack. Defending would have been useless after the cannons were done with my defenses and then suicided.

    Plan 4b: Don't let Cyclops get a foothold and try to get peace for Rifling.
    The UN was already built, so I that makes you instantly meet
    The Underworld
    :devil: If I'm likely about to lose a city, gift it to Hades. I can easily take it back later.
    But! I can't gift my capital :nono:

    Plan 4c: :devil: I realize that I can spread units out along the coast and the transports look for somewhere else to unload!
    Plan 4c backfires as they unload next to an Atlas city (that I gifted him long ago)

    But! before they take the city, at my end of turn, Cyclops are willing to talk!
    But before my next turn, they take Atlas' city and refuse to talk! :wallbash:

    Cyclops choose to vote for Free Speech :thumbsdown:
    That would mean no more drafting :eek:
    But! Atlas defies this! :dance: (-5 happy on him, not me, for being a villain)
    I guess since his fav civic is Bureaucracy, he defied.

    This time it's mostly Cuirassiers and some Grenadiers
    I think I can rush him tho, after all, he can't build new units, right? Wrong : Airports
    He's had Rifling for a while, so now we're looking at possible Machineguns, Infantry, and upgrading Cuirs to Cavalry.
    Long story short, before too much of those scary things can happen, I wipe out the invaders.
    I have to pay 700 for peace.

    Step 5: Get 62% of the population

    Cyclops are stuck at 39 cities, but they're huge.
    Biology farms are not enough. I need sushi.
    Emancipation is forced on me thru the UN (no more slavery). Sushi spreads slowly.

    T336 Zeus, Atlas and I have about 80 cities now. Maybe 40 with sushi
    Sushi is doing +19:food:
    Diplomatic victory vote is called

    Spoiler Results :
    I get 951 votes, but 1019 are needed.


    I've had very little hope that I could grow to 62% before losing the game to Space, but I'm glad I kept playing. I got to see something I've never seen...
    T339 Cyclops DoW again.
    The screen shakes. I get nuked! Several times.
    The most powerful army I've ever seen is unloaded in my land and a couple defender-less, new ice-cities.
    Maybe 30 modern armor, 15 mobile SAM, 10 Gunships, 40 various ships, 10 paratroopers drop in.
    Missiles everywhere. Radiation fallout. etc.

    Spoiler T342 :
    I proudly submit my first GotM loss. (Space loss).


    All along I expected to eventually get to 62% sometime after the space landing, but I'm sure I could never have ever gotten to 62%. Maybe if I had thought to beg for 10t of peace.

    Thanks for the scenario! It was a challenger!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
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  13. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

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    Reading your write up I totally get that. You had to adapt like only you can do and almost made it to victory on a hopeless map. Very, very well played....
     
  14. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    :worship:

    Nice try. Thanks for write-up. I was rooting for you and waiting for your report.
     
  15. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    Thx guys. Another plan I had to avoid Cyclops 2nd war was to get a defensive pact with Zeus. Not sure that woulda deterred them, but I couldn't get the Pact. He didn't like me enough at +20. I suppose it was because he was only about +5-7 Pleased with Atlas. I thought those #'s would average out to Friendly. He was voting for me after all.
     
  16. zbgayumn

    zbgayumn Emperor

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    I went with the contender save, but it proved to be just a bit too tough for me. I retired in 1937. It was an interesting ride the last ~17 years. I'll get back to that.

    I started out by putting my 2nd city south on the bay. Between the fast border pops from SoZ and then the Great Artist that I used to culture bomb my 2nd city, I grabbed a lot of land pretty quickly. I expected a lot of competition for space, but that turned out not to be a huge deal. The barbs ruined a number of my improvements, but I wasn't seriously hurt by them. I cut off the expansion of the Bush People and kept them small. I eventually took them out with Maces.

    I felt like I was in pretty good shape at that point, and then I got Optics and met the Cyclopses. They had every tech that it was possible for me to research. Although, somehow in trading maps with them I got the navigation bonus. That turned out to be important.
    I think I was around 0.40 power rating with them, but soon they turned on a flood of espionage points that never shut off. I never got any information after that.

    I knew if I was going to have any chance of catching up I needed to get bigger than them. I took out the Plains People relatively slowly, and got Galleons churned out to go conquer the tundra. I kept Hera around because I could occasionally trade techs with her. So as we entered the Modern Era, my team had about 45 cities to the cyclopses' 37. But as with other reports, they're population was insane. Over 50% of the world population with 33% of the cities.

    My plan to catch up might possibly have worked if it hadn't been for the UN. They put up a vote for Environmentalism. I should've defied, but I wasn't thinking about Enviro being an Economic civic just like State Property. I literally lost 600 gpt in one turn because of that.

    So, for a long time it didn't seem like the Cyclopses were going to even build the Apollo Program. However, by 1900 they finally kicked the space program into full gear. I was frantically trying to get modern military techs while ignoring purely space techs. I was building up an army, but not super fast as I didn't have the cash for mass upgrades. I also started cranking out the Transports. Finally, shortly after 1920, the Cyclops space mission launched. I have no idea what game mechanic controls which capital the ship launches from, but I saw it launch from Sicyon instead of Megalopolis, and I said 'hey, there's a chance' :hmm::satan:

    The pink border south of Sicyon was exactly 6 tiles from a land tile directly adjacent to the capital. So I gathered up Mech Inf, Tanks, Artillery, Marines, SAM Inf and set sail. I had a group of 8 transports unload next to Sicyon in 1929, supported by a single Carrier with 3 Fighters. I also landed 3 other transports next to other cities nearby to basically sew confusion. Somehow, it all worked. Despite overwhelming air superiority, the Cyclopses didn't manage to touch my main strike force. The next turn, I burned Sicyon and brought down their spaceship. :woohoo:

    That was the high point of the game, though. Poseidon and I narrowly missed the chance to take another city. Meanwhile, we got nuked.
    I mean we got nuked like 30 times over the 8 turns I played.:deadhorse:

    Poseidon was nice enough to build the Apollo Program while I was only building Wealth or troops, so we had a brief lead in the space race. But I soon realized that we were still missing way too many techs. Right before my retirement the Cyclopses started send troops to take nuked cities. I beat them back twice, but I couldn't see any point in continuing until they finished a 2nd spaceship.
     
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  17. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I think the way to win space is is to beeline The Internet. You get all techs any 2 civs have, so I think that means if one team gets a tech, you get it too. Not sure tho on that technicality. Even the pathetic Titans have copper for The Internet.
     
  18. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    You think you made a mistake going for diplomacy? I do not see how you would be able to get to internet in time, but then you manage much better then I could dream of going blind.
     
  19. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    No, I chose diplo cus I thought it looked like the intention was to make this an impossible victory for the Titans.

    I've played Deity OCC space games where I would get to the Internet with just one city, so maybe it would work.
    The challenger game might be tougher with essentially 'no tech trading' until you kill Poseidon...which you can't do without Astro.

    Contender/Zeus should be able to do Internet/Space tho.
     
  20. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Prince

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    Continuing my contender save...

    Achilles was destroyed by 1260, then I attacked Sarpedon in 1360. I finally made contact with the Cyclopes team in 1380; they clearly had a dominant lead across the board. Good thing they're friendly. They even traded maps, which gave me the circumnavigation bonus!

    By 1685 Poseidon and I captured all of Sarpedon's cities, except for one that he's settled on the far side of Hera's territory. So I accepted a tech for peace, then declared war on Hera. By 1780, I have all of Hera's cities except for one on an island. I still haven't researched astronomy (keeping the GLH bonus going), so I gave her peace for astronomy. Then I went back to war against Sarpedon and destroyed his empire in 1808. Meanwhile, the Cyclopes have gone to war against Cronus/Atlas. And in 1828 they finish the Apollo Project. I declare war against Hera one more time and capture her island refuge in 1832.

    So what should I do against the Cyclopes? I can't catch up in tech for the space race, it's too late for culture, and they've voted themselves Sec. Gen. in the UN. My only hope is to try a massive invasion. I push the research forward for tanks and artillery, but the Cyclopes are always several steps ahead of me. When I get tanks, they have mech. inf. Then they finish the Manhattan Project (and even drop a tactical nuke against the already hopelessly outmatched Titans--I can't recall any other game when on AI has used nukes against another AI!) and they won't call a vote for non-proliferation.

    With their spaceship close to completion, in 1908, I finally land a massive amphibious invasion force in two stacks surrounding one of Arges' coastal cities, hoping that I can push on to his capital.

    Arges drops three tactical nukes on my stacks, vaporizing one stack completely, and letting his defenders reinforce his city and nearly wipe out my second stack. :cringe:

    That's enough. I retire in 1909. :sad:



    I see that BOTM 202 is beginning today. When I have more time, I'll try this one again for fun playing Arges, and see how that goes.
     
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