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[BTS] BOTM 208: Dutch, Monarch - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by kcd_swede, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    BOTM 208: Dutch, Monarch - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

    Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, particularly anything after 1AD
    Did you win?
    Reading Requirements
    If you are participating in BOTM 208 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
    • You have submitted your entry
    Posting Restrictions
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
     
  2. mscellaneous

    mscellaneous Prince Supporter

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    I have submitted a 1170AD conquest victory. With Monarch AI and no tech brokering it was like a walk in the park, no AI had Engineering. Libbed MilTrad in 740AD and went into war mode. Built 2 stacks of Cuirs which went both sides of Lake Quatro Stagioni. After 3 AIs capitulated I invaded WK over the lake to wrap up the game.

    I enjoyed the game and the map, many thanks! :goodjob:
     
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  3. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I repelled an early attack from Alex. Tricking him into suiciding 2 metal-based stacks on my stack of axes.
    I was thinking maybe a sushi high score with all the rice from rainforest and seafood from inland sea? But for now a peaceful a builder game to set up my empire. Was thinking Mongols would attack Wang a 2nd time. Instead they came for me and I quit.
    Barbs also contributed to my rage-quit. I lost 3 axes. 2 of them were to warriors!
    Great scenario tho. Thx.
     
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  4. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    I was eager to play this creative scenario. :goodjob:
    I went for the lakes quarter and settled t3, decent lands around and was quite happy with this decision.
    From then on it all went quickly downhill...
    T9 initial warrior pops a hut with strong hostiles (10% chance) and was promptly killed.
    Then my freshly built worker pops a lousy map and a scout.
    T36 scout loses a 74% winning odds battle to a lion and dies.
    T45 my 2nd warrior (next to my 2nd city which was founded same turn) loses a 90% winning odds battle to a wounded barb warrior and dies, and said barb razes that city the following turn.
    Oh well, it seems too much for me to endure, I rage quit but might replay this map for fun if I find the time.
     
  5. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    My start is here.

    The last few BOTMs I have just been playing for fun. Same with this one. I liked the rainforest so much, with all the rivers and whatnot that I decided to do the old-fashioned biology slingshot and go for high score.

    I didn’t really play particularly well, at least compared to the last game, where I think I did quite well. My Warring was belated and laborious, my spawning great scientists for the education, chemistry and scientific method bulbs was slow.

    I used horse archers and then knights to plow through Wang Kon and then Montezuma. I bribed Genghis Khan into the war because he was my next target and I wanted him to waste his stacks if possible. That didn’t work exactly, he just captured a city easily and didn’t lose any of the stack.

    Genghis proved to be a hard nut to crack and I stopped sending reinforcements too early so I ended up only capturing most of his coastal cities and then capitulated him. Meanwhile I had decided De Gaulle was my final target and so I had bribed him against Genghis so his stack would be away from home.

    Hannibal got to be friendly with me pretty early on and he was just teching like crazy. He was very helpful, giving me several techs I wasn’t planning to do myself, including nationalism. De Gaulle had built the pyramids (I blundered either not building thus or not targeting dG sooner) and the mausoleum of mouses so my first golden age actually was an 8-turn Taj Mahal.

    After Biology I decided to go for rifleman and with my sprawling cities all the way across the rainforest I proceeded to draft about 30 rifles which were quite powerful against de Gaulle’s 50-unit stack.

    Another blunder I made was remembering dikes. At some point I was looking at the research screen thinking well what next? And then I noticed the dikes. Oh my God. Dikes on this map are as good as if not better than mining Inc. on a map with lots of those resources. So I quickly teched that and spammed dikes everywhere possible. That was lots of fun actually.

    I rarely play long games like this although I have recently a few times, so I don’t think strategically about my early city placements so much. If I had known the value of dikes then a few of Wang’s cities I would’ve razed and resettled on Rivers. He put a couple in between rivers that were glorious river fat crosses but couldn’t build dikes.

    I definitely didn’t see any value in sushi or cereal on this map.

    One feature of no tech Brokering that I was unfamiliar with that was very helpful was stacking trades. For example, with one of my bribes, I think it was Alex, I didn’t want to give him gunpowder and paper wasn’t enough, so I gifted him paper and then bribed him with printing press. Same turn. Didn’t have to wait another turn.

    At the very end I also went after Hannibal to capture his big cities for high score points because I knew I was about to exceed the domination limit. One of the funniest things was capturing the great wall. I think that was my last capture.

    Another nice feature of large empires is that I can simply vote no on apostolic palace and block any resolution. I don’t need to refuse to obey the resolution and take the unhappiness hit.

    I think one reason I didn’t have too many troubles with Barb’s is that I was kind of tucked up against that wall of mountains between lakes and rainforest. Also Hannibal and DeGaulle were really relatively close to me. The only place the barbs could come from would’ve been the ice to the north and they came every so often but I was building units so fast it was never a problem. My second city which I built as a setler pump I also envisioned as my heroic epic unit pump because it had so many hills in the area. It was cranking out units virtually every turn so Barbs were no longer a threat.

    I really enjoyed this map and this game. Thanks guys!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  6. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Prince

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    Well, I won the game, but it wasn't pretty.

    Monty went to war with WK in 75 AD. Then in 125, Hannibal attacked me, while my axes and swords were marching west to take a barb city. Hannibal pillaged my ivory, but with some hasty whipping I was able to save my cities. When I noticed that Alex was plotting, I converted to Judaism, which was a state religion shared by Alex, DeGaulle and Hannibal. By 740, I've eliminated the invading stacks and Hannibal pays me some gold for peace.

    In 760, Genghis joins the war against WK. On the same turn Alex attacks DeGaulle; that war would continue until 1440 without any cities changing hands. Hannibal joins the war against WK in 780.

    In 1020, I'm happy to agree to Genghis's demand to join the war against WK. I manage to grab two cities across the lake. I want a third city, but it looks like Hannibal's army will take it before I can get there. And meanwhile, WK has made peace with Genghis and Monty, and Genghis has moved his army to my border, southwest of the lake. He's not plotting yet, but I'm sure I'm his next target. I make peace with WK in 1170 and start ferrying my army back across the lake.

    Genghis demands Philosophy in 1190. I pay the tribute for 10 turns of peace. As I prepare for a Mongol war, Monty declares on Genghis in 1270. Perfect! I attack in 1300, capture two cities, sign a ceasefire in 1460 when I see a large Mongol stack approaching for a counterattack, then I declare war again in 1515. And then Alex (who had dropped from pleased to cautious due to that last declaration) attacks me in 1520. :mad: It finally occurs to me to beg 1 gold from Hannibal and DeGaulle, to prevent this two-front war from getting any worse.

    I bribe DeGaulle to attack Alex. Genghis makes peace with Monty 1545, then makes peace with me, too. I recapture the border city Alex had captured, then take two Greek cities, and Alex capitulates to me in 1625.

    Meanwhile, Monty has attacked WK, and Genghis joins that war. I attack Genghis once more, in 1660. The following turn, WK offers to become my vassal. I accept his offer, thereby going to war against Monty, too. Monty signs a peace treaty in 1715. I push forward and take most of the Mongol cities, but Genghis refuses to bend the knee. I notice that he has a large stack sitting in the open in his remaining territory. He could use that to counterattack against me, or to go north to try to eliminate WK, but it just sits there for at least a couple turns. Very strange!

    Finally, Genghis counterattacks Beshbalik in 1755 and retakes it, at great cost to both sides. As I march to lay siege to it again, he pushes forward to try for another city. I destroy that stack and Genghis finally capitulates in 1770.

    In the meantime, I've been leading the AP for a couple centuries. (Votes for a religious war against Genghis kept getting voted down by Hannibal and DeGaulle). By spreading Judaism to an captured Mongol city and giving it back to Genghis, the religion has now been spread to everyone and a religious victory is possible--but I still don't have enough votes. I figure that a couple more wars will be necessary to gather those. I attack Monty in 1790.

    While the Aztec War continues, the AP vanishes! Hannibal, who built it, must have researched Mass Media and made it obsolete. :mad: Oh, well, if I make Hannibal my next target and capture the AP city, I still might bring it back. But in the meantime, Monty gets Assembly Line in 1822, before I do, and his infantry slows down the attack by my rifles and cavalry. I push forward, wearing him down by attrition, while he refuses to bend the knee.

    Then in 1850, he does become a vassal...to Hannibal. :mad:

    More attrition...and I finally destroy the Aztec Empire in 1870. Pushing east some more, and Hannibal capitulates in 1892.

    In 1894 I declare (and all of my vassals) against DeGaulle, who very reasonably capitulates in 1898 after losing only one city. Now I want to ensure a conquest victory, so I give six cities back to Genghis. I'm still a fraction over the domination land threshold, but I baulk at giving up Karakorum, which has three wonders. So I keep it and take my chances.

    Naturally, the computer rolls the dice and awards me with a domination victory in 1900. :rolleyes:
     
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  7. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

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    Some nice write ups already.

    Statements about lots of rivers on inland sea maps lured me in that direction. And it was a nice area indeed. I couldn't find an outstanding starting location though and ended up picking double crab + cow.

    It was a sloooow start. 2nd city ±2000BC, 3rd city ±1500BC. After that I started catching up, 9 cities by 1AD, eventually 13 cities settled + 2 barb cities, expansion mainly eastwards along the coast.

    Meanwhile Genghis had sent lots of units my way ........ Jewish missionaries I mean. I gave in and converted , as did Alex. Somehow I thought it would be a good idea now to go for a religious victory for a change, something I needed to work on anyhow.
    No GE available so no neat tricks like gifting a border city with apostolic hurried in it. No theocracy huggers, so at least spreading Judaism to everybody was easy.
    My plan was to bring Alex to my side (away from Genghis).The gap was like 10pts, so I soon realized I wouldn't get anywhere without war. I DoWed Genghis (option to bribe Alex not available, I knew that). Then after 1 city I noticed he would cap and decided to accept thereby not loosing too many diplo pts with him. He was still my competitor though. At least I could force him to break trade with Alex now.

    While my army marched east I bribed Alex to DoW De Gaulle and did so myself a few turns later.
    During this war de diplo gap reduced to 1 pt, wonderful. A new turn of events though, Alex is now the competitor. Genghis automatically joins my side, even better. I didn't know this about vassals.
    Now it became a race against the continuous rising required vote limit and collecting+infecting enough cites with Judaism. I capped the De Gaulle with 3cities left, 2 of them Jewish. Despite being furious , his votes were on my side too. Really, that easy ?
    Swiftly moving on to WangKon, rinse, repeat and finally I got enough votes.

    Well, for this victory type the win date was extremely late I suppose. I went a long and slow path. Enough time to Lib=>Steam Power and run around with Cavalry.
     
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  8. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    Interesting that in my game Hannibal had the Jewish holy city and spammed missionaries most of the game.
     
  9. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

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    Hannibal sure spread something in my game too, I think it was confu. His orange flagged missionaries confused (confuced :)) me a couple of times. Hindu was spread actively too, by De Gaulle I think.
    You wouldn't expect that much religious activity among all these war going leaders.
    The only warring one was Monty. Over the course of the game he DoWed Wang Kon - me - Genghis - Wang Kon again, it got him nowhere.
     
  10. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler Game :


    Well... I doubt anyone will have settled in the same spot as I did.
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

    But eventually I did manage to get iron and proclaim myself king of the jungle.
    After this, I did build up abit more and did a piggyback on Genhis Khan when Monty declared on him. Took a pair of cities from GK but then motivation for the game ran out. Have had it on ice for a few weeks now but when I saw the "Game submitted" thread get some activity I figured I should get myself together and finish. :)
    Did take one more city from Khan, but after that I went full builder mode and just rushed my way to a least effort culture victory.
    Civ4ScreenShot0019.JPG

    Not a pretty date, but a win is a win! :D
    It was so fun stealing cities from the AIs toward the end too, took 3 from Monty, 2 from GK and 1 from Hannibal either through just flipping or through AP "Rightful owner".
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG
     
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  11. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Prince

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    Your settler marched through all that jungle just to settle right next to WK's territory!? :undecide:

    Congratulations on getting a victory despite the handicap you gave yourself.
     
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  12. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Yeah, at first I was kind of hoping for a empty spot somewhere there in the jungle, but there was no such thing, so I just settled close to the first AI I found.
    I really thought things would get way more nasty, but it turned out OK.
     
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  13. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    It looks like you are just trying to break the "Where people settled" post when results come out.:nono::lol:
     
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  14. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    (Recap: I'm heading for space. At 1AD I've Oracled Civil Service and built the Great Lighthouse and Colossus, so have good science, but only 6 cities and almost no exploring).

    Fast forward to 500 AD (and by the way thanks @krikav who I think is the one whose own reports inspired me to do progressive write-ups). 9 cities - still a bit low. I've mainly expanded along the coast to take advantage of the great lighthouse and colossus. Although put Middelburg South of the capital for huge food so I could get a great scientist.

    I got paper and finally have some MAPS (except in the far west where Monty and Genghis won't trade them. Seems I misjudged the fantasy land - it doesn't look as bad as I'd feared. Even so I still think my immediate priorities have to be to settle the remaining inland sea and then take some rainforest off Wang Kon. The trouble with heading East is that I feel the good spots are along the French-Greek border and I don't like their chosen city spots - so I'd have to go to war with two AIs and raze a ton of cities just to free up the land. Taking Wang Kon's (more sensibly located) cities seems like a better return.

    8 turns to education so I should get a fairly early Oxford in Rotterdam (my intended capital). Feeling fairly happy.

    botm208 500AD.jpg
     
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  15. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    980AD And my first serious miscalculation: Got education in 620 AD - nice and early except it was just as I was mentally gearing up for my first war - which meant for ages I couldn't build any universities because my cities were too busy building units. And I figured too late that I should really have engineering for the war, which meant frantically researching it after education. I'd have been far better off going for engineering before education and then capturing a few AI cities while researching education.

    Still, on the upside, macemen and trebs against Wang Kon's archers and axes means he's basically just melting away. However, I now have a quandry. I don't want to push too far into the jungle just yet, and also down South Alex has settled Ephesus on the very spot I'd earmarked for a national park. Good national park sites are very rare, so I've decided to leave a couple of units watching Epesus for now and I'll declare war the instant I see a worker starting to chop any of MY forests. Both of those things mean I should stop the Korean war soon. But on the other hand, Genghis has just joined in the Korean party - and I'm worried that if I leave Korea now, he'll vassal Korea and then taking the lush future-grassland around Seoul will be much harder. And Monty is in war mode too - wonder if Korea or Mongolia is his target? Still, Civ is about taking hard decisions. I'll take Hyangsan and head my troops down South to deal with Alex.

    Tech-wise, after eduation and engineering, I switched off science - won't switch it on again until I have Oxford University (In Rotterdam - I finally moved my capital!). But the sustainable rate would have been 230gpt. A bit low I fear for nearly 1000 AD - I fear I didn't expand enough in the early AD years.

    botm208 980AD.jpg
     
  16. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    1120 AD. Now at war with Alex. Taken Ephesus... 15 cities for total pop of 104

    botm208 1120AD.jpg

    And - oh dear... what's this? France has declared war and is headed straight for my capital (which has just completed Oxford).

    botm208 1120AD attack.jpg

    Luckily I noticed the stack over the border a few turns earlier so had time to beef up defences a bit. But with de Gaulle having peace-vassalled Carthage, this means I now have a simultaneous war with all three AIs along my entire Eastern border - literally pole-to-pole! Luckily I'm still way ahead in military tech so it should be fine.

    After this, the game basically turned into a huge war-slog-fest right up until 1780 AD - by which time my spaceship was well under way. At the end of it all, Carthage was dead, Korea was a 1-city vassal, and France and Alex were now rather cute little tribes confined to the SouthEastern corner.

    I got steel and cannons from liberalism in 1200 AD, which made quite a difference to the wars. And steam power and dikes in 1370 AD were huge! Luckily I'd been careful to ensure almost all my cities were either coastal or on rivers so the production boost was amazing! I almost wonder if I should've prioritised steam power earlier, although I'm not sure how possible that would've been with all the fighting.

    This was the map when I finally won the spacerace in 1838 AD.

    botm208 1838AD.jpg

    Not too bad a date but I'm sure it can be bettered. I think my mistake was being too tech-focused and not expanding enough between 1AD and 1000AD

    One bit of bad planning I learned from... I forgot early on to plan where my ironworks city should be. In fact, I didn't even get around to thinking I should build it until about 200 years after I'd got steel. And then I realised there were just these three sensible options - which at the time of steel had looked like this:

    botm208 cities.jpg

    I ruled out Nijmegen because it had the heroic epic and I still needed all the units it was pumping out.
    Then I ruled out Haarlem because by now it was giving me almost 100bpt science and I couldn't bear to waterwheel over those towns.
    That left Ephesus with its national park.

    I'd always just thought of ironworks as +100% production - I hadn't noticed the finer detail that it's actually +50% with iron, +50% with coal. And of course, the national park removes coal. Not only that but I forgot that if I put the ironworks there, I couldn't put the national epic there too! Aaaargh! I should've gone with Haarlem and taken the hit to its commerce (or better yet, made Haarlem a production city from the start). Ah well.
     
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  17. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    And @kcd_swede - definitely an enjoyable and very unusual game. I loved having different parts of the World made from different scripts - that added a lot of character to the map.

    I think you were pretty cruel to Wang Kon by the way - starting surrounded by jungle AND with Monty and Genghis as his neighbours. I shudder to think what would've happened to him if I hadn't graciously vassaled him :lol:
     
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  18. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    Eeek! That sounds like incredibly bad luck. That would make quite a difference early in the game :(
     
  19. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Yeah, we wouldn't want anyone to be cruel to Wang! :shifty:
     
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  20. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Deity

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    I played a practice start recently and Wang beat the crap out of me. It all balances out.
     
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