[BTS] BOTM 209: Catherine, Immortal - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by DynamicSpirit, Mar 16, 2021.

  1. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Dec 23, 2005
    London, UK
    BOTM 209: Catherine, Immortal - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

    Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, particularly anything after 1AD
    Did you win?

    Reading Requirements
    If you are participating in BOTM 209 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
    • You have submitted your entry
    Posting Restrictions
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
  2. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Jan 27, 2006
    Rage quit when Genghis attacked T75.

    I could have repelled him like I had to for Alex last game, but wasn't in the mood. IIRC, after Alex was beaten back, it was Genghis again that caused me to rage quit last time.
  3. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Aug 25, 2011
    Spoiler T178 :

    Failgold took forever to land, and I also tried to be smart an renegotiate the deals with Khan (to avoid diplo hits with Lizzy) so I canceled the trade for ivory... And couldn't get it back, so was shut out from failgolding more in SoZ. T129 I got 500g from SoZ.
    But I did manage to limp my way toward winning music, even though it was a hell of a tight race. WvO finished it the same turn. Tough luck Willy!

    Alot of cash!

    Reached CS at T139, but I figured I wanted to do another swap so I self-teched poly and traded for Mono T140 and revolted to Bur/OR then with the idea to whip forges.
    Khan and Elizabeth was in war forever and ever, and Khan seems to have done some serious whipping.

    T147 WvO goes into Christianity, away from the Hinduism that both he and Qin shared... That started some tensions.

    Finally got Globe up in capital, it was nice to whip elephants like this. Also being able to 1pop whip anything at any turn with the +50% burocracy bonus was nice.
    I did get less out of this setup than I wanted though, mainly because civics so often where out of sync.

    In hindsight, this paci-push was abit premature. I did not get out the GPeople I wanted. But it felt like it was late anyway. Most probably I overdid the whipping of units for failgold earlier, should have accepted less and started growth sooner. Getting a merchant extra would almost have ofset what I gained from failgold.
    Bulbs went into Philo, 2xEducation and Lib. Should probably just had done 1 into education and self-teched.

    I didn't really want to give them anything prior, but now I figured that it was the right time to sour their relations basically forever, and put an end to their traderoutes and resource trades. One of the better war bribes I have done I think.

    I only got one GMerch, then this guy showed up. Timing was rather bad. Cities where in no shape at all to go through a GA again, and noone had nationalism either so I postponed Taj rushbuying for a long time.

    The war against Khan went... smooth. The poor guy didn't even have longbows.

    I formed a stack from all the swords/axes/catapults I did earlier. They took one city I had T0 access too (gem city) and then camped up on the forested hill next to Nigh-Hsia, and it took a hell of a beating! Felt even dumber for building those units in the first place. Either I shouldn't have done it, or I should have done some opportunistic warfare with them way earlier.

    She had alot more land, but he was more advanced. And they did not like each other.
    This war bribe helped keep Isabella in the stoneage for the rest of the game. Her size made her sturdy enough though.

  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Aug 25, 2011
    Spoiler T249 :

    And just like that, he was gone, I did lose 6 cuirs though. Darn elephants!

    The first AI reaches Nationalism and right away I rushbuy Taj which have been sitting in the capital.
    I start a pacifism push again, trying to get out the GPeople I started last turn around.
    I really really really should have done a reminder to swap civics though, because I forgot completely. :|


    I placed some minor unit 1S of that city, and I couldn't belive my eyes when she marched out of the city with almost all of her stack. Took a ceasefire here and then redeclared and obliterated that stack next turn.

    This was so incredibly annoying. Outside BOTM I would never had played on from such an obvious and annoying blunder but:
    "If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying."
    I killed off Elizabeth in a pair of turns, and then I struggled alot with economy. Neither Khan nor Elizabeth seemed to have a taste for building courthouses.
    And trying to get to state property in a timely manner was hard. I think I had two GMerchants help to get there.

    Bella was plotting and I found some boats of her. I thought she was going for Qin for the longest time, but it was me all along.

    She should have delayed DoW one turn and landed that army. Because now I shot the boats with airships, killed most of them and surrounded the others and killed them the following turn.
    Here I routed all galleons with Cossacks I had ready for Willy to her instead.

    I was suprised by this, my army was still 2-3 turns away from action, and there was no bloodshed on land. Did I really get so much war success shooting down those boats...?
    I just accepted right away, and only then I saw that she had just been attacked by Napoleon too!
    I move boats toward Willy/Qin again...

    Apparantly, things went so quickly after this that I forgot to take screenshots. But what I did was that I hurried units toward Willys territory (a few galleons went back and forth moving fresh Cossaks to their continent.
    I drafted alot and got power rating high, and prepared attacks on 3 offshore cities that willy had on the islands he shared with me.
    And once the main army I had in the screenshot below was in reach from Willy, I declared.
    That teleported units into Qins territory and I attacked from there.
    I had alot of airships softening up targets, and coastal cities where bombarded by the sizeable navy.
    Willy Capitulated quickly and then I just proceeded to Qin whom bribed in Napoleon, and when Bejing fell I hit the Dom limit.

    Napoleon had just started to march toward Madrid with a sizeable stack of infantry, so Bella was really glad that the game was over.
  5. mscellaneous

    mscellaneous Prince Supporter

    Sep 13, 2006
    the Netherlands
    Alas, I had to retire in 1816AD when Willem captured one of my soon to be legendary culture cities.

    I kind of lost track of Willem diplo once I met Isabel and Napoleon. Both were cautious and plotting and had Astronomy. Willem had been pleased for a really long time, so I thought I would be alright. Guess my culture pressure was causing border tensions pushing him back to cautious (he was plotting for more than a 1000 years it seems). Willem declared at 1795 AD, Qin got bribed in 1800 AD.

    I was about 20-30 turns from victory, bit surprised to took so long TBH. 4 religions, each with 9 temples. Was able to run 100% culture, netting about 500-600 culture in 2 decent cottaged cities.
    krikav likes this.
  6. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Aug 25, 2011
    That hurts @mscellaneous ! :(
    That darn Wilhelm is a notorious backstabber, even though he looks nice he does plot at pleased, something that have fooled me more than once.
  7. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Prince

    Mar 12, 2008
    As I mentioned in the first spoiler, my goal was to achieve a cuiraissier rush against Genghis.

    Genghis launched his second war against Elizabeth in 350. That war would continue until 1020, with Genghis ending up capturing only one border city. Meanwhile, I knew that I wanted a state religion, first for running pacifism to generate GMs, then for theocracy when I built my army. One problem: Genghis and Elizabeth were both Confucian, while Willem and QSH were both Hindu. And what religions had spread to my cities? Judaism and Christianity. :rolleyes: Converting to either of those wouldn't help my relations with anyone.
    When I founded Taoism in 560, I decided to spread that religion, but I was careful not to convert too early.

    Before my first golden age, I had generated three GS (the first built an academy and the next two were saved) and a GA for being first to music. I started my first golden age in 1070, switching only to Caste System. That generated two GM, who sailed to the Netherlands on trade missions. Genghis saw all that gold and demanded 340 gp in 1190. I gladly paid it, figuring that the resulting peace treaty should just about get me to cuirs. Starting my second golden age in 1210, I now switched to pacifism and Taoism. Elizabeth also made a demand for 350 gold. I paid that, somewhat less willingly. Switching to nationalism, slavery and theocracy before the golden age ended, with a third GM sailing on a trade mission, I researched Military Tradition in 1330 and was able to use my gold to upgrade 21 of my 30 horse archers to cuirassiers.

    A few turns earlier, I had noticed that Genghis had his army in New Sarai, just across my border. Elizabeth had demanded I cancel my deals with him in 1320, and when I agreed to that I had lost sight of that army. Assuming it was still there, I decided I'd try to bait him with a musket and a couple workers, hoping to lure his army onto the grasslands next to Yakutsk. But when I declare war in 1340, I discover his army has moved! Had he decided to move on Elizabeth? Now my army rushed forward and captured New Sarai. And Genghis returns with his army just outside the city. Lovely!

    Battle of New Sarai.JPG

    I attack his army, with flanking attacks wiping out nearly all of those cats and trebs. Genghis tries a suicide attack with his wounded survivors, and none of them escape. :smug:
    After that, Elizabeth joins me in the war, but I capture all of the Mongol cities and wipe out Genghis by 1520. In the meantime, I've finally made contact with Napoleon and Isabella. Time to build courthouses, spread my religion, and rebuild my economy. I'm far behind all of the AI in tech.

    In 1540, my one caravel that had been exploring to the west earned the circumnavigation bonus! This, despite privateers having been a nuisance on my coasts for at least a century. What in the world had the AI been doing? :rolleyes:

    Elizabeth now has Redcoats, so I continue my research until I have rifling (upgrading my cuiraissiers to cossacks!) and steel for cannons. In 1690, I attack Elizabeth. On the same turn, I notice that Napoleon now has destroyers. At this point, I'd built a couple of frigates to drive off the privateers.

    Elizabeth won't consider bending the knee until I capture York, Canterbury, and London. But at that point, London is surrounded by her culture, so I decide to push forward and take Newcastle. I hope she won't peace vassal to one of the AI in the meantime. Well...she doesn't, but she does bribe Napoleon to declare against me in 1785. :cringe: You'd think that would have boosted her morale, but I decide it's time for her capitulation and she doesn't hesitate to bend the knee. Now she's at war with the ally she just bribed into the war.

    Napoleon lands a small invasion force of cavalry and artillery, which I destroy, then he obligingly calls an AP vote to end the war, which passes by a small margin. Heck, he only had to ask!

    Napoleon completes the Apollo program and starts building his spaceship. I know I'll never catch up in a space race and begin planning an invasion to destroy that ship. At least I get an GE to found Mining, Inc., which helps my production. When I'm elected Secretary General, the first vote I get passed is a non-proliferation treaty. Now I know he won't nuke my army/navy into oblivion. In 1890, having researched industrialism and traded with Elizabeth for artillery, I stop all of my research and focus entirely on building the invasion force. My units are still inferior to Napoleon's, but I'm following the classic Russian strategy of making numbers count. In 1910, I declare war on Napoleon. I've divided my forces into two fleets. One attacks and razes Avignon, where he has a large fleet of ships, while the main body lands next to his capital. Thus begins the battle of Paris.

    Battle of Paris.JPG

    Isabella declares war on me and Napoleon strikes at my army, but can't stop me from capturing Paris. It has three world wonders and two corporate headquarters, so I decide to hold onto it. And then I notice that I've made two errors. One tactical one: I neglected to load my healer onto the invasion fleet. One strategic one: capturing a capital city before a spaceship is launched does not destroy the ship! :eek:

    I call a UN vote to stop the war against Isabella (thinking I could still keep going against Napoleon) but it fails to pass. When Isabella's troops join Napoleon's, my army is quickly eliminated and Napoleon retakes Paris in 1913. I've just lost the largest army I can ever recall building in this game, and all I've accomplished is to raze one enemy city. :sad: I feel like the game is lost at this point and I begin considering which saved turn I'll choose to replay the game "for fun". But I keep going.

    I destroy one French stack that lands on my continent, then destroy the invasion fleet when it returns with more troops. Napoleon signs a peace treaty in 1920, then he completes and launches his spaceship in 1927. Isabella invades my northeastern coast and I destroy both her army and her fleet. She makes peace in 1930.

    And now, with my fleet and army rebuilt, I've double-checked the civfanatics posts that confirm that I can destroy a spaceship after it has launched (even if that's totally illogical). And I've decided on a new strategy: if the French army is too strong to fight on land, I'll become a modern Viking and raid from the sea! My fleet sails into position and I attack in 1933, razing both Lyon (which had become the capital when I had captured Paris) and Paris. Now the spaceship is gone! In the turns that follow, I raze Rheims, Grenoble, and Dijon. Napoleon still won't negotiate. At the far south of his coast, I capture and hold Amiens. Napoleon sends settlers out to found Poitiers and Toulouse, and I raze them, too. I try to end the war with a UN vote, but the vote fails. Napoleon still won't capitulate, but he will negotiate, so I decide to make peace in 1943. He still has four strong cities, but most of his coast is in ruins. (I had failed to take Marseilles in my final attack, but that was to my advantage. He was already trying to rebuild a spaceship. Since Marseilles was the new capital, it might be a convenient target for a future attack.)

    French Raid Aftermath.JPG

    QSH was now leading the space race, so I moved my fleet to my northeast coast, preparing for another invasion. Now I could build modern armor and gunships, so I expected this invasion to be much easier. Then I could do the same when Isabella completed her spaceship, and then maybe back to Napoleon. But as another opportunity for a UN vote arose in 1946, which I let pass without a motion, I belatedly noticed something simple. Willem had asked for Satellites back in 1934, and granting that request has raised his relations from pleased to friendly. He'd now vote for my diplomatic victory! And with France being so reduced in population, that would now give me the margin I needed to win. Well, gosh! :blush:

    I called for the next vote in 1954 and won a diplomatic victory (630 votes out of 992, 615 needed) in 1955.

    That which does not kill you makes you stronger. :king:

    Attached Files:

    MirrorGuard and krikav like this.
  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Aug 25, 2011
    @MarleysGh0st Oh wow! What a epic game. :D
    Nice that you discovered the tactic to cripple a superior AI by razing coastal cities. Thats something I happen to do from time to time too, not sure how you did it, but I find that it's as smooth as can be with destroyers/battleships bombarding culture down, then smashing with carriers loaded with fighter airplanes and then in with marines to finish the kill off.
    Alot of kudos for the grit to stay in there when it was rough!
  9. crofter

    crofter Chieftain

    Jul 9, 2020
    First time playing GOTM & really enjoyed the map. Start went nicely, got the gems & gold and gifted a city to Genghis to get him to pleased. I bulbed philosophy & since I founded taoism, decided to use the free missionary to convert Genghis so we could be in the same religion. Genghis hated Viki & fought at least one war, but somehow in a small gap he declared on me 275AD (I guess I missed the red fist...). Seemed to get a bit lucky that it was only a few units, not a doom stack, so was able to defend, get a city & then peace.

    Game then went smoothly, got lib in 1060 AD and took astronomy. Then went for cannons. Killed off Genghis with cannons, then added rifles to take out Viki. It got a bit complicated because Napolean joined in and managed to cap Viki, so then I ended up fighting both until Viki was finally dead in 1725 AD and I made peace with Napolean.

    Wasn't sure I wanted to do a big naval invasion, so since I had captured the AP and had a friendly Qin, decided to send a few missionaries over to setup religous win. Hadn't really done this before, so managed to not have enough votes first time round, but finally got the victory in 1858. Was a bit quicker than managing many tanks!
    krikav likes this.
  10. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

    May 4, 2007
    Some epic games in the previous..... as I had just completed BtS 210 and realising I had 4 days for this one, I decided on cheese.

    Like most others I went BW first and thanked the kind mapmaker for putting Copper there! Cities 2 & 3 followed to the south on either coast....GLH was required due to the lack of commerce. Managed to found Gold/Gems/Pigs as well as an East coast city as I could see the culture of Willem.

    Massive Hindu lovefest then occured with me catching it very last. I was beginning to panic as I needed to be in Hindu to get enough Diplo love to win. Built a Christian Apolistic palace, bulbed Optics. I was a little worried near the end as Willem seemed to have Christianity in all cities, but not his founded state religion: Hindu.

    Anyway, all went well and I won on the first vote. 1020ad.
  11. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

    Mar 30, 2016
    Moving on in the early AD's I was cruising comfortably to MilTrad/Cuirs.

    That came to an end when GK and Lizzy cease fired without a serious fight and GK, loaded with units, turned his attention on me.
    I did have an army of the same kind, phants and HA's. So this was quite bloody from both sides of course. I had to switch to guilds to get at least some sort of upper hand in a reasonable time. So I conquered his cities with knights, which was bloody too.

    Heavily delayed in my war plans I DoWed Lizzy with cuirs, just when she finished beelining redcoats. I could eliminate one outdated stack and take 3 cities before she got the upper hand and I had to sign for peace.
    For the rest of the game she was crippled enough to become backward. Those cities at least helped to build up some culture in that area.

    WvO and Qin were a lot easier and vassalized with just a few cities.left.

    With Napoleon (why did I pick him next?) I made a serious mistake. He had destroyers and reached assembly line when I invaded. My cossacks/rifles/cannons got owned by his infantry. Only half my army escaped to Spain. When the first new waves of my reinforcements arrived I hopped into France, DoWed the more backward Isabella and quickly conquered a few cities. Some French attacks helped to reach a cease fire with Napoleon. Isabella was capped after 3 cities.

    Reaching infantry and artillery myself I could easily conquer Elizabeth next, which was enough for Domination.
    Quite handy were the 2 GArtists I got at <5% odds. They were used to culture bomb cities out of revolt and make my land% jump over 64% (eat that stupid RNG :whipped:).
    krikav likes this.
  12. damnrunner

    damnrunner Deity

    Oct 19, 2005
    Had a fun loss with this one.

    Expanded fairly quickly and snagged territory down to the gold to the south. Two barb cities popped up in the jungles to the east of the continent. The closest of them (near the gems) had archers, but further south (elephants) was just warriors so I was able to snag that early on as well. Mongols were sadly able to take the other one.

    Early game was mostly prepping for a conflict with the Mongols as I knew I would need a good chunk of their territory to be competitive. They still had archers when I invaded with elephants and cats leading the charge (however they still had a sizable experienced army from wars with England). I may have also had some trebs at the start, but I think they came a few turns later (same with Maces). If I recall I captured 3 cities pretty fast (and destroyed some decently sized stacks) and then had to slow down as they got LBs and I had to take some time upgrading previously built axes/swords to maces (think I also had some knights in the mix by the end too). Mongols ended up capitulating after I got their capitol and they were left with a small rump of a few cities south of the mountains that formed a natural barrier between them and England (also not quite recalling but this may have been a 2 part war where I got peace and restarted later).

    I then tried to focus on tech. I was way behind, but had some great cottaged land and figured the Russian Lab's free scientists would also help down the line.

    Totally don't recall when war with Mongols ended, but by 1800 things were going pretty well. While still behind on tech, I had been able to trade around a few, and despite small size the Mongols also turned out to be good tech trading partners.

    But in 1804 things went to hell when England attacked with a big stack of mostly marines, infantry (weirdly only like 2 cannons). I was 1 turn from railroad, and also had a few turns of research invested in both rifles and assembly line (I started both when it looked like I could trade them and then switched away when I couldn't). Fortunately I had a few turns before her units reached my 1st city as I had burned the Mongol border city and had pushed out a lot of culture since then. With railroad I began linking up cited and used a GE to get Mining Inc which was a very useful production boost. I then went for rifles which was only a few turns away. In the 1st city the UK hit I left a few machine guns hoping they would cause some pain, but I don't even think I managed to kill one of the attacking units (but did delay attack a bit as cannons bombarded. After I got rifles I started a GA and began drafting rifles and slaving cannons/cossacks (which I had already been building but slave rushing certainly helped).

    Around this time France and China also attacked! China fortunately never invaded, but France landed a big stack of SAM infantry, cav, artillery next to a city by the wine SW of the capitol. Now I am really in a bind. I have to let France take the city and then they move on my capitol which I also have to let fall as I don't have enough units to counter attack yet (and a 2nd French stack which included tanks also arrived). I also ended up losing two more cities to the UK but fortunately not the Mongol capitol which had a ton of settled GGs.

    However before long I am able to counterattack. I have a bunch of level 3 cannons from the Mongol capitol as well as level 2 ones from 2 other cities. I also have a health number of cossaks and rifles as well as a bunch of older units. I am also starting to build infantry as well as upgrade units as needed. I start by hitting a French stack that is moving south with cannons followed up by cossacks and rifles (I need more infantry to go after England). And after taking that out both of the cities I lost are fairly easy to retake. I think I had to kill off one more French stack that they drop off before I have the infantry force needed to attack the UK infantry/marines. But once I do, I retake the three cities I lost fairly quickly. I am able to get peace with France after capturing and returning a city they built on some former Mongol land. The UK accepts peace after I recapture my cities and liberate some of the Mongol ones they also captured (I still wanted them as a tech partner...and if I recall they got artillery for me later on).

    Anyhow, by this point my econ is again a mess. One annoying factor was constant french airstrikes from carriers at the end of the war. I attempt to rebuild, but am just too far behind tech wise and in 1922 France launched their spaceship (they were a beast having taken most of Spain previously). At this point I had standard ethanol and science labs in all my cities and was working on Apollo program. So I was doing a pretty good tech output, but building was slow (I was running republic for the science boost and planned to switch back to demo for a production boost once I was building spaceship parts later). I suppose I could have planned for this and had an invasion force ready to try and burn Paris. I guess my logic for not doing so was my hope France had gotten distracted by a war with the UK. But by time they launched, their was no way I could build enough transports to get a credible invasion force in place.

    Anyhow, a fun loss. Probably the only time I've used LBs to finish off damaged tanks. Some good practice fighting a war from a tech disadvantage.
  13. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

    Apr 28, 2006
    Denmark, GMT+1
    Challenging game. As usual, I ran out of time. Made it to 1400 AD with 22 cities. Liz is fighting Nappy who has brought in Quin as an ally. Steel coming next turn and I have a GE ready to found Mining Inc. Should be a pretty standard Space Victory from here on. Given more time I would have attacked Izzy with cannons, she's backward but has many juicy cities.
  14. nocho

    nocho Deity

    Mar 10, 2009
    I also ran out of time unfortunately, or rather, after playing it up until 1020AD in the first few days, I left the game there the next 4 weeks. I got somewhat demotivated with Willem who was running away with the game, at least technologically. By 760AD I had wiped out the Mongols and had a solid empire of 15 cities. Rather than continuing the onslaught on the English, I figured to invade the Netherlands, with its very juicy capital city of Amsterdam with the GLH, Colossus and the Great Library, besides the Oracle (given these wonders no wonder he teched so well). However, then I spotted he already had East Indiamen (Indiamans? :crazyeye: ) so already on Astro, with a bunch of other techs I didn't have yet (philo, music, guilds, drama), so lib race also looked complicated. Figured my invasion navy of galleys would have a pretty hard time, so left the game while pondering what the best plan ahead would be. I can cease this pondering, now that deadline day has arrived. ;)
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021

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