[BTS] BOTM 214 (Sitting Bull) Final spoiler - game submitted

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by kcd_swede, Jun 1, 2021.

  1. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

    Jun 21, 2007
    Stockholm's B.F.C.
    BOTM 214: Sitting Bull, Monarch - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

    Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, particularly anything after 1AD
    Did you win?
    Reading Requirements
    If you are participating in BOTM 214 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
    • You have submitted your entry
    Posting Restrictions
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
  2. nocho

    nocho Deity

    Mar 10, 2009
    By 25AD Hannibal had left the building and had handed the whole Punic south to me. That left rather vast expanses to the west open for settlement, so here I decided to go for domination.

    While in the neigbourhood, my army marched on Egypt and took it without problem. Meanwhile, the loving brotherhood of Hindus between Korea, Mansa, Genghis and myself turned less loving when the Khan turned on the Kon. As Egyptian affairs were settled, I turned north and joined in against Korea while Mansa, likely on Korea's request, turned against the Mongols. By now had knights, so Korea was swept away relatively easily as well. Then Mansa offered to be my vassal, and as he was still at war with GK, had a good pretext to annex Mongol lands too. His once mighty army was still reasonable in numbers, but outdated so annexed it all without trouble. In fact, all around resistance was quite low, end-of-game statistics tell me I have killed just 1 longbow, which I remember was Korean. For the rest only melee and archers. :crazyeye: Anyway, with all of Carthage, Egypt, Korea and Mongolia mine and Mali as a vassal, just settling land west gave me domination in 1060AD. Not too bad but could have been faster if I had bothered to calculate better the land needed, there was still quite some space to be had when domination hit.

    Fun game anyway, thx kcd!
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
  3. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Jan 27, 2006
    It only took 12 turns after 1AD to complete my conquest. All with dogs, Xbows, and cats.
    At 150 AD, I still had all 7 AI opponents alive when I got Feudalism and killed
    Wang first. Now for the delicate process of peace vassals.

    is barely Pleased, so I take him as a vassal first. (This causes -2 diplo to everyone else for having a vassal.)

    was also just barely Pleased, so she won't peace vassal... yet.
    1. Give her Mono, switch to Organized Religion myself. Bribe Hatty to OR for +1 shared religion
    2. give a bunch more techs to get to 10 for +1 shared tech. Still no luck.
    3. Next turn (cus of anarchy on OrgRel) I take her religion. Still doesn't like me enough :(
    4. Tell my vassal Asoka to switch religions too. Bingo! Hatty will peace vassal cus she likes us both. (another -2 diplo with the others tho)

    ("we have enough on our hand right now")
    Ok, hold on. It just means Mansa doesn't want a 2nd war. I've been at war with Hannibal for a while, So Demand...
    Hannibal Capitulation
    I did not want to cap Hannibal before Asoka and Hatty joined me cus the combined attitude towards us would ruin that. However, Mansa will join up at only Cautious. He loves me cus we shared a war all this time with GK.

    So I now take his last city. He's DEAD. Leaving only...

    Gotta do him the 'usual' way. DOW, get 40 war success, and he will talk in 1 turn.
    But his Civ is 'Doing Fine on Our Own' :mad:
    This is why I didn't take GK as a vassal. (or Wang) You can't leave too many decimated Civs alive because
    if Julius's Power is above the average, he's doing fine without me.
    I'm close, so I finish a couple extra barracks and complete some chariots and maybe another XBow.
    :banana: Next turn, it's just enough power and JC will capitulate!

    300 AD
    I'm the only Civ in the game.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
  4. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Prince

    Mar 12, 2008
    Great conquest victory, WastinTime! (And another reason why my game play hasn't improved more--I still haven't mastered all the details in the "Know Your Enemy" guide to know exactly how much to manipulate the AI to get the diplomatic results I want.)

    In my game, 1 AD still had my army besieging the Carthaginian city of Hippo, which controlled the iron I wanted. My catapults finally arrived on the front and I captured that city in 25 AD. Having eliminated all of Hannibal's defenders, I could have pushed on at that point, but I saw Genghis was plotting. Hatty was his worst enemy, but I was sure he was planning to attack me. So I signed a peace treaty and rushed my forces north.

    Sure enough, Genghis attacked me in 250. I bribed Asoka and Hatty to join me against him. In 500 I captured Beshbalik and the Pyramids; a golden age let me switch to Police State and Vassalage. Pumping out those highly promoted longbows sure was useful, especially after Julius attacked me in 520. His army was eliminated, and he signed a peace treaty in 780.

    In 800, Hatty volunteered to be my peace vassal. By 1060, I captured the last Mongol city. Meanwhile, Julius had gone to war against WK and Hannibal attacked MM. MM had captured one barb city in the corner between me, Hannibal and Hatty. Hannibal was able to capture that, but the rest of MM's territory would have been far out of reach. But that didn't matter, because...

    In 1160, I attacked Hannibal. MM peace vassaled to me in 1190 (although he didn't come forward an volunteer to do so, my domestic advisor popped up a message saying he was willing). After capturing a third Carthaginian city, Hannibal capitulated in 1270.

    I attacked WK in 1330, captured two cities, and made him bend the knee in 1400.

    Julius was next, attacked in 1430, capitulated in 1490. Finally it was Asoka's turn. After losing one city, he bent the knee in 1520, giving me a Conquest victory in 1525.

    I thought this was pretty fast! Until I read the previous report, that is. :undecide:
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Aug 25, 2011
    I think the only times I have ever gotten a peace vassal, is when they ask me for it. I haven't cultivated a habit of checking around for AIs who are willing.

    What are the rough conditions? They require a certain diplomatic attitude, which is civ specific. But other than that? Does it mainly come down to power rating?
    Different threshold for land target or not?
  6. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

    Jan 27, 2006
    You need double their land.
    You either need triple their power or if they're a land target, 1.5x power.
    Their power has to be below the average of everyone alive.
    And, like you said, the attitude needed depends on the leader. And it's their attitude towards you and your vassals.
    :devil: Then I figured out how to get a peace vassal even if they're annoyed.
    The short answer is: The AI lowers their attitude if they have multiple land targets.
    krikav likes this.
  7. zbgayumn

    zbgayumn Emperor

    May 16, 2011
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Started out this game with the Great Wall, and peacefully expanded while watching the barbs stream around me. I got to 3 cities in the immediate area of the capital, and then I discovered the spot it the SW with FP Corn and 3 Silver. It was a trek to get my Settler there, but I got my 4th city there. Hannibal managed to settle the very bottom of the map, but I largely cut him off from expanding. Judaism turned out to be the popular religion and I joined the bloc. Mansa was a Hindu and Asoka got Buddhism, so they were on the outs.

    GK was my main PITA. He was Jewish too, but that didn't stop him from declaring on me twice. The 2nd one was pretty much the end of him. I captured 4 cities including his capital. In the meantime, Hannibal declared on GK too. I decided to ask for a city to make peace, thinking he wouldn't take the deal, but he actually did. I did some more settling where I could actually find any food and was sitting at 19 cities. Hannibal had vassaled Hatty and GK, but he was still 2nd. I figured with the happy Jewish bloc, I could easily win Diplo if I got someone else to build the UN. Mansa was ideal for that, so I fed him all the techs. I got a GE at 45% odds just in time, then sent in my Great Spy as well to see all his production. Once he started the UN, I got the GE in there and finished it in one turn.

    Unfortunately, WK and Julius went to Free Religion by that time. I tried to work with favorite civic bonuses, but that wasn't doing the trick. Finally, on the 3rd vote I sent spies to put them both back into Judaism. Somehow, Julius switched to Christianity on the same turn that I flipped him into Pacifism. It worked on WK though, and that was enough. Diplo Victory in 1838.
  8. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

    Mar 30, 2016
    I had to give in to my love for watermills and levees, so go for space, which ran into the 1800's as well.

    After 1AD it was mostly cruising free of dangers. GK DoWed me 3 times, but I refused to take cities from him.
    After Communism, which I always seem to reach between 1000-1100 when I beeline it, I started a campaign against Egypt, then Rome, then Asoka. Egypt had some seafood and Asoka the only pig and access to a copper+ deer island and Rome had good land in between.
    Lots of wars among the AI's the entire AD period. Rome against Asoka and Egypt, GK+Hannibal against Mansa+WangKon etc etc
    I could have launched 1T earlier with 1 casing missing. Decided not to do that. To be honest I have no idea what risk I would take. Don't think I would even take 2% chance of failure.
  9. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

    Mar 30, 2006
    I also went for space.

    After eliminating GK in 1AD, my army took the long road south, by southwest, capturing several barbarian cities along the way.
    It wasn't until the 700's before the war against Hannibal started. He was eliminated in 1110AD.

    Upon his demise, Hattie, who was being beaten by Julius, asked to be my vassal, which I happily agreed. However, I wasn't too far from the domination land threshold, so I was only able to keep her seafood city, which was under Roman's control at the time, and Rome itself, which had the Mausoleum. Even then, near the endgame I had to liberate it, but by then I already had 3 or 4 extended Golden Ages.

    I was happy to get a sub-1700AD finish date.

    Enjoyable game, thanks!
  10. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Dec 23, 2005
    London, UK
    I went for space but only got it quite late - 1868AD.

    I felt the main challenge on this map in the mid-late game was the lack of happy+health resources. Most resources were there somewhere on the map, but they were so rare and spread out that it was really hard to get them all without practically conquering the entire map and therefore triggering the domination limit. The relatively small map didn't help either. I ended up on the domination limit with just 26 cities - pretty low for me for a space race.

    So I ended up with a very different conquering strategy from normal - carefully taking only the areas where there was food and resources, while leaving all the AIs alive so the cultural pressure would stop my cities expanding too far beyond their BFCs. Right at the end of the game, I even tried aggressively founding cities just outside my borders and giving them to the AI in order to reduce my land. This was the result by the end of the game: A very weird set of cultural borders in whichI had the bulk of the plains - only really because that was where we started so where I had to expand in the early game. A blob of Korea where all the hills were - excellent ironworks city site. A stretch along the North of the map for the stone, pig and deer and then heading down the far East of the map for sugar, marble, seafood and several wonders that Rome and India built. And a few bits of the mountains to the West to get the silver, dye, island sheep, and an early-game off-continent set of trade routes. And then AIs occupying all all the intermediate sites.

    Attached Files:

  11. ZPV


    Jan 16, 2008
    I played the Deity save and retired shortly after 1AD.

    Some total raving lunatic dressed all in brown decided mount an audacious attack at Construction... but it turns out that even when he's backward and already at war, Genghis Khan isn't a very good target! :smoke::lol:
    I did manage to capture two cities and had hopes of taking his capital, but Dog Soldiers, Archers and Catapults just isn't a winning combination vs Keshiks.
    The way the diplomacy situation worked out, the game certainly felt winnable if I played properly instead (i.e. farmed the barb cities, waited until Gunpowder units to take on an AI), but that's such a grind so I went for the fun play instead and it didn't quite work out.
  12. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

    Sep 4, 2008
    I also took the Deity save and got a Domination win, mostly by luck. Like ZPV, I attacked GK while he was backward and at war (with Wang). Well... they immediately made peace and I thought "Ooops, game over." But I managed to take one city before GK could move his troops back and that plus some of his unit losses was enough for peace. I think before I attacked I had hooked up iron; I beat Hanny to the iron/silver site down in the SW with no margin--he had a settler moving to the same spot. Soon after, Asoka nabbed a barb city on the left edge of the map, behind my lines. GK DoW'd him with a Large stack and took the city. I'd been assembling my units planning to attack before the now-Mongol city came out of revolt, but goofed (moved to a tile that I didn't notice didn't have a road). GK smacked me hard but I managed to eventually take the city and rush units back up north. I don't recall if there was another round of war, but he eventually vassalled to me and I finally got access to horses.

    Meanwhile, Hanny had vassalled Hattie and Mansa. I didn't want to attack all three of them just yet so I eyed Wang, but a turn or two before I was going to attack he peace vassalled to me. :) I think I got Steel around then and bit the bullet to take on Carthage/Egypt/Mali, starting with a nice Egyptian city. I ordered Wang to take another Egyptian city and that was enough to make Hatty my vassal. I took a Carthaginian city and Mansa's shrined city (42 raw commerce!) plus another and got peace.

    Then there was then a significant stretch where I ordered my vassals to research techs I needed while I worked on Steam Power and RR for trades. Even so I was falling behind on techs with everyone but Hanny, but eventually attacked again and he and Mali broke their stacks on my defensive positions. Mali vassalled to me without even losing a city (in fact I abandoned one to him that I'd captured previously because it was too hard to defend) and I steadily mopped up Hanny until accepting his fealty would put me over the Dom limit. Long tough game but very satisfying, since I don't win Deity very often. Thanks, kcd! :)
  13. LincolnOfRome

    LincolnOfRome Glutton for Punishment

    Feb 14, 2010
    Richmond, VA
    I took the contender save got a domination win at 1630. After wiping out the Mongols in 1920 BC and the Carthaginians around 150 AD I fooled around a lot with building cities and buildings until 1600 AD. Mansa peace-vassaled to me. After that, it took one calvary charge into Egypt where I took two cities to win.
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Mar 11, 2008
    Enjoyed your write-up, WT!

    Got this one in at the buzzer after a month between the first session. Forget some details of the opening. Did not SIP but settled close to start position. Tried to Oracle CS, and could have easily Oracle'd something, but missed out to Mansa at the last moment. Not a big deal though and the fail gold was nice.

    I had Diplo in mind from the start, but played a bit unfocused for much of the game, especially with the month long interval and rush to get the game finished last night. A bad result of this was not getting any GEs for UN - really bad luck there that delayed victory at least 20-25 turns. I actually did pop a GE finally with a few turns left on UN in Cahokie and did rush it. (The alternative was using any other GP with my 2 other saved GPs to run a Golden age for boosted production and switch back to OR. I'd actually hoped to do that sooner with a GP that popped before that, but it was a duplicate of one I had). Ended up with 2 unused GPs actually. So my finish date hurt tremendously by not getting a GE or two, and the unfocused play, an example of which was grabbing some mil stuff like MT and Rifling which was really not needed. Though it did speed the late vassal rush considerably. Basically a diplomation deal here. Capped everyone but Mansa.

    GK was first to fall to my sword after he Dow'd me earlier in the game. It somewhat surprised me. I was gearing up to attack Hanny actually for a pathway to the lush FPs and super corns. Had swords and cats mainly at this point though Maces were not far off. GK attacked so I had to focus my units there. Killed off his stack, and then went on the offensive. He had Henge, GW and Mids which I captured (forgot to ever adopt Rep until late :(). I left him with one city as I wanted to cap all AI but one. His Keshiks were annoying, ofc, but I had a wall of spears on the borders. AIs love to send single mounted units in your borders to annoy.

    Hanny was the next earlyish target. He had been a war with Hatty at some point and had a stack somewhere. Before I had sent a couple of units to grab the barb super corn city (N). So interestingly, I attack and take a city or two (including GLH and Colossus), but he sends his stack toward the super corn city I had just taken, which was poorly defended. Luckily, he was open to ceasefire. I waited some turns to let that stack move E to not be a threat over there, then attacked and killed the stack. He capped without taking further cities.

    Hatty asked for protection at some point soon after. Seems she did that in everyone's game. She sniped a nice barb city from me on the W edge due to bad RNG, but in hindsight that worked out best. After capping everyone, I sat at about 1% from dom limit for a long time and was afraid I'd have to gift away cities

    Subsequently, I teched MT and shortly after Rifling, and attacked Wang, JC and Asoka in succession. Each capped to me after taking 2 cities. I had very few losses actually, but no matter since my army was very dominant. All AIs but Mansa were quite backwards the whole game. Mansa though was teching very well and not far behind me. Granted I traded liberally with him early, but he is Mansa and he had about the greenest land on the map. But really MT and Rifling were a diversion, where trebs+whatever would have sufficed here. AIs did not even have horses in the East. I gifted all cities back to vassals at this point due to dom limit. (I kept captured Mongol and Carthage cities earlier though)

    I libbed Commie for SP for all the watermills. (Pretty much watermilled the super corn sites as well) Using lib though on like Radio might have been better but SP helped a lot with and hammer economy as well. The tech pace on those final techs was not bad at all.

    Diplo in 1600AD. Score probably not good here since it dropped considerably with the UN delay.

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