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[BTS] BOTM 298: Huayna, 20th anniversary game - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

DynamicSpirit

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BOTM 298: Huayna Capac, Emperor - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

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Well this was fun for a little while lol!

Lots of space which is not ideal for a Quecha rush but I settled 1E on the Plains Hill and pumped out 8 of them. I managed to eliminate Rome and capture a worker. I sent the worker home to improve a still size 1
Capital, totally forgot about barbarians (I never play with them) so I rage quitted when a panther ate him lol.
 
Loved this game. Actually ended up not finishing because I accidentally did alt-F4 instead of Fn-F4 which force closes the game. At that point I had already done most of a turn in the late game and that meant a lot of war with different cities and so forth. I tried replaying it, but I simply couldn’t remember the sequence in which I had done things and it just came out all different. So I said OK whatever.

The main point is I had a lot of fun with this game.

Switching to Notes…


As I said in my previous write up, I was going for Astro. I managed to get my great scientist on the second try and this was all going well until I was trading Julius for something or rather, and I asked him what he would offer and he slipped in Meditation without me noticing. That meant I also had to research philosophy before I could ball Bastro. In short, Astro was about 10 turns later or so. No biggie.

Having met the other continent, they were all Jewish. And they were madly in love with each other. As I was trying to figure out who I would attack over there, I took out Rome and then most of Gandhi.

Meanwhile, France finished the apostolic palace and got beaten down in a war with Mongolia so they vassaled to Mongolia. Mongolia was large and becoming a beast. Although far behind me in research. My two caravels were loaded with Scouts and those scouts were scouting Mongolia and discovered a stack of doom there so I wasn’t sure if I was gonna bother attacking Mongolia. Later on Mongolia and France became trading partners with me so I decided to focus on Peter and then Germany.

When I was almost done with Gandhi, it suddenly occurred to me. I better leave him alive because otherwise somebody might backdoor me on the apostolic victory. So I left Gandhi with one city.

My war with Peter was going along swimmingly until I did my alt-F4.

Delhi had two religions with their respective shrines so I decided I would make Delhi my corporation headquarters. Sushi first and then mining later is the sequence I chose because Mongolia was pressuring me to finish liberalism. With which I took medicine. That meant I decided to go for communism before mining so I could get the Kremlin as soon as possible.

I was still massively, putting Phil gold into wonders, and so after I originally started going to 100%, which was after Gandhi completed the Parthenon at long last, I was able to go 100% research slider all the way through mining. As I added more sushi cities, my maintenance was starting to skyrocket and I ended up finally having to adjust the slider accordingly.

One of the idiosyncrasies of this particular game for me was that I didn’t revolt to bureaucracy or anything else until my first golden age which wasn’t until like 1300 A.D. or so. The reason was that I got to 13 cities so fast that I forgot to switch to hereditary rule before that, and after that was when I finally got the ability to run bureaucracy or representation. By the time I did run my golden age a revolt with a costed me four turns for one civic if I recall correctly.

Another shock was that Mongolia completed the mausoleum of relatively early even though he had no marble. Golden ages on epic are already Nerf because it’s only 10 turns without the mausoleum and 15 with so I wasn’t planning to use golden age as much as I normally do. Then when he got the mausoleum. It was like Jesus.

So I ran a couple golden ages and was prepared to do a third as needed, but I was racing for radio. What I really wanted was Cristo. I was about eight turns from radio when I quit.

I had a third great engineer, ready and waiting for Cristo also. The first I used on mining and the second I used on Wall Street.

I’m not sure my score would’ve been particularly good for this game so I’m not really disappointed that I didn’t finish. It was becoming a grind. The one disappointment though was that I was curious how this was going to play out in terms of maintenance. I was collecting quite a number of cities on the new continent and the Colonial taxes in addition to the sushi and corporation taxes we’re going to be astronomical and not not sure I could have afforded it. Now I understand why. WastinTime used his continual broke economy after spreading all his corporations. I didn’t bother to prepare for that and so I didn’t build lots of the appropriate units to sacrifice during that period of time. So I was curious how that would play out at the end for me.

There were some unusual things I noticed with epic that I’ve never noticed before since I haven’t played it for a long time and before I was so inexperienced.

They were a number of game elements that didn’t change with the time difference. A revolt is only five turns still. I should’ve taken notes cause I can’t think of the other similar deviations.

Another thing that is evidently unique to Inca is that capturing cities with granaries since they turn into terraces of course they come with the two culture points so it counts as a captured cultural building, even though it’s not a cultural building. But even more interesting is that if this granary has been in existence for more than 1000 years, they actually carry with them four cultural points!

Thanks for game DS!
 
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So I was curious how that would play out at the end for me.
The corporation expense grows with the city population, but the benefit is constant. I guess the key is to keep population at a low level and place cities 2 tiles away from each other just to have as many small cities as possible. If you go for broke economy, you would be literally broke. Income from trade routes or tiles, cash income from shrines or headquarters would be all gone. So towns and watermills need to be replaced by farms or workshops, windmills by mines. Need lots of workers too. Some computations need to be done to justify this huge cost.
 
After the other continent took the Pyramids and JC dow''d on me, I gave up on my original spaceship plan and went for conquest instead. Cavalry was too strong for emperor level AI.
 
The corporation expense grows with the city population, but the benefit is constant. I guess the key is to keep population at a low level and place cities 2 tiles away from each other just to have as many small cities as possible. If you go for broke economy, you would be literally broke. Income from trade routes or tiles, cash income from shrines or headquarters would be all gone. So towns and watermills need to be replaced by farms or workshops, windmills by mines. Need lots of workers too. Some computations need to be done to justify this huge cost.
Of course it depends on how much food you’re getting from sushi. In this map, it’s on the weaker end of it. When you have a lot more sushi food than I think the broke economy is all about growing and running scientist with extra citizens in large cities. You don’t care about the coins, only the food and beakers, after you have finished building corporations. It’s just the final growth stage of accumulating points before ending the game.But I’ve never actually tried it. I’m just basing this on what I read.

In all of my sushi attempts, I have always maintained an affordably economy. I have managed to get a few future texts, but never as many as wastintime seems to get.
 
Hi! So finally I m doing the writeup and after waiting so long there are probably a few points missing.
My game went a little diffrent than the others. Since I could not wait for the game to open I replayed the Start of 3 nobles club games on epic, emperor and inca. While doing so I noticed that the quechuarush window is very large on this difficulty. And rushing was always succesfull. I moved to the plainshill west and started with a worker and 7 quechuas. Although I knew that if could not finding a target early changing to a build strategy whould probably be better, I stil stuck to my plans since I was sure a target whould not be that far away. Ha I was wrong. While meeting Julius first I completly missed him. I was wonderring where is my Target while 7 quechuas were searching the map. Finally after 80 turns I found gandi the founder of budism. attackng him around turn 80 I think right when he founded his third city. And yea shure enough he did not have bronze yet so his cities where only defended by one archer each. I expected the maintenace to go up, but not that bad. Since i got a nice chunk of capturegold I managed to tec to priesthood and build the oracle in deli. I whould have loved to take metalcasting but the high maintenance forced me to take code of laws for the courthouses. After priesthood I finally and luckyly decided to go for archery since the barbs started to enter my borders shortly after I captured gandis cities. And while quechuas are great for barbdefence barbspears started to appear from the very begining. Actually i think a spear was the secon Barb I encountered. And from this point on I realised that I made a big mistake by taking gandis cities. I underestimated the amounts of barbs and that after a short while barbaxes showed up and then it was on for about 100 to turns I got constantly rushed in the north and in the south. Barbs where coming in from all sides and ended up having to build quechuas and archers non stop. i even had to let them take Bombay for a few turns before I could take it back. In the end I finally managed to connect the horses in the north to counter axes and in the south I had to settle a total shitcity on a dessert copper. which was right in time before I whould have lost the southern cities. I think in the End the trade off for having captuerd those cities was really bad because off the hammers I had to put in units aswell as the unit maintenance which was between 13 and 18 for many many turns. Here ist a picture of the unit trades after i managed to stabilize. And of the sad Copper-City.
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Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG


After sabilizing and founding more floodplain-cottage-cities in the north, building courthouses, and cottages where ever possible my economy slowly recovered. I then setteled around 15 cities while preparing an mace-treb attack on julius. Since I was able to attack him from two sides I planed to cut his territory right in the beginnig of the war. So I was shuffeling units from my more production based cities in the south north. Right at this point Julius decided to attack me. This was a little inconvenient but since I was still a few turns away from engeneering and pikes to counter his elephants effectivly. But I had already assembeled Maces and had my Heroicepic-City switch to catapults to soften his stacks. Also since he attacked north his southern flank was open with just a few longbows and axes defending his cities. During this phase I also had my biggest facepalm moment of the game when i planed meticulously to get Banking at the End of a goldenage to get mercantilism, just to completly forget to switch in the end, realising it many turns later.
:wallbash:
After beating back his attack in the north I took around half of his cities cutting him in two pieces. And took peace for ten turns do get a few tecs. And finished him up 10 Turns later. While I was doing that I teced Optics to finally find the other civs. On the other continent Kublai had gone on a rampage and had vasaled Peter and Louis already and was in the procces of doing the same to Freddy, which he achived shortly after.
It turned out that Louis was building every WW under the sun and by doing so was able to get lib before me actually matching my reaserch with only 7 cities, aggainst my 30 cities. But they where not that far a head in tec and particularly where not going for rifling nor steel. I went for the latter and turned all my trebs into cannons while producing more and even switched to nationallism for drafting maces and muskets. Another moment of pain was the realisation that hinduism (the Apostolic religion) had spread to one of my cities and Kublai was pretty close to wining by AP luckily he fell short since Freddy was still resisting. I countered that by leaving my Shrine Religion (Bud) and switched to Hindu during an other Goldenage while spreading Hinduism to every City to get a blocking minority and later on even the AP Seat.
After Building a lot of units and galleons my Strikeforce was assembeled and on its way west to go for louis to get his wonders, when all of a sudden freddy broke free of kublai. This was of course my chance so i declared and completly roled him up. Also my economy finally exploded in part of reaching Communism and also because of two Goldenages one from the Taj which had not been claimed for centurys and the second extended by the mausoleum, which was the only WW Freddy build.
During the war I commited to a Domination victory, because I was sure that I lost to much time in the beginning to be competitive, and I saw that with freddys territory I just had to found a few Iceball Cities in the South and only Take a few Cities from Peter and Kublai to win. And this time fait was on my side since Kublai also declared at Freddy which alowed me to make peace with him after I took all but one isolated Ice-City. (And Funny thing he Even traded me Physics 3 Turns later.) This lured Kublai, who was still matching my power although I had reached Rifling and was about to reach assemblyl line, into takeing the last city. And this was my moment. I build a road up to the city in 2 turns and Slamed all my units into his stack while drafting Rifles in Freddy old Cities and chain-shipping Units from the old continet for reenforcements. The Veteran cannons crippeld his stack of about 50ish units but it still took me 4 turns to whipe it out completly. Reaching assembly line was the final straw. Drafted and upraded Infantry combined with cannons and Airships where able to take 2 Cities of Peter and 2 of Kublai before my big attackstack was healed up and ready to rejoin the Fighting. Domination at last.
This was a lot of fun. I will definitely replay this. I think the quechuarush could still be viable but only if one can secure the Great Wall, which ist very much possible with this start and Mr. Capac. I wil try that.
 
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Thanks for the report Smiregal. Interesting to hear how the quechua rush played out. Your pregame testing that the quechua rush lasts quite a while is also interesting.

I managed to map out Rome ‘s territory as soon as I got writing so he didn’t have any metal yet. That would’ve been the ideal time to take him down for me, but unfortunately, I overlooked the second hammer on the naked grass Hill where iron turned out to be. I actually looked for it, but just missed it somehow. I know this is the case because in hindsight later on, I went and looked at a save that I had made and sure enough the second hammer was there in plain sight. Even though I didn’t have IW yet, of course. So at the very least, I could’ve denied him iron and harvested some workers. I could’ve struck a balance between minimizing maintenance costs and maximizing. The quechua’s value. I didn’t wanna create a catastrophe by attacking him before I could deny him iron.
 
There is a lot of potential with this setup and leader, to be honest i did play those Games very casually and had a game where I was able to take out two civs easyly while still starting with a warrior first. Which I did in all the games. And I just remembered an other delay in my game I setteled the forrested plainshill west. But only after walking around for three turns hoping that that Ds's cryptic suggestion whould come true. :nono: And I whould find an irrigated corn with riverside grassland gems. But i guess he was talking about settling in place. :mischief:
 
But only after walking around for three turns hoping that that Ds's cryptic suggestion whould come true. :nono: And I whould find an irrigated corn with riverside grassland gems. But i guess he was talking about settling in place. :mischief:

Yes I was. I made that comment because if you settled in-place (which could be tempting because of the gold and floodplains), the grassland sheep would be just out of your BFC, so you'd end up with a capital with no high food tiles but an obvious high-food tile frustratingly just out of reach. I didn't want people to feel their games had been nerfed right at the start by doing that! Sorry if it caused you to have a suboptimal start!
 
Yes I was. I made that comment because if you settled in-place (which could be tempting because of the gold and floodplains), the grassland sheep would be just out of your BFC, so you'd end up with a capital with no high food tiles but an obvious high-food tile frustratingly just out of reach. I didn't want people to feel their games had been nerfed right at the start by doing that! Sorry if it caused you to have a suboptimal start!
I was Not really complaining. I think this Tipp did probably help a few people. I was just very foused on a plains hill start and an other food tile for the gold, which made me Look in the wrong direction. (Did not find the sheep:lol:) This Tipp is still appreciated.

 
Well, finally completed a BOTM after ages, and a long one at that. I'd been playing this one off and on for like forever, and basically a few turns a night for a couple of weeks. I suck at epic, especially with the timings of things. What I do know is that my space victory is very bad compared to what one can do on this speed with proper play.

I don't remember a lot of early details here. The land was okay but not great. My opening strategy was to forego a worker and build some Qs to nab workers and take out a close by AI. Thing is, the AIs were not close by, and getting to Rome was running the gauntlet through a sea of barbs. While I did steal many workers and former settlers from Rome, I literally recall losing about 9 Qs during the whole affair. Plus, the workers took forever getting back home. So simply a lot of lost production and my early expansion was slow. I did take out Rome with HAs later.

My goal was to adopt Gandhi's religion and be friends until he vassaled to me. Part of the problem, that I was not even paying attention to, is Rome was led by Augustus, so all those DoWs on him built up quite a bit of neg diplo with Mr. Gandhi. He did reach a point where he was flippin' pleased/friendly, but would never bend the knee even when my power soared as I was preparing to grab some land overseas. Then he switched to free religion, and it was over. I would have been better off taking him out, but I wanted to keep him around early for routes and trades.

The overseas conquest did not fair much better. Mongols had already vassaled Louie before I met them, so I avoided that. I only wanted some land or vassals so I was not overly committed to having a messy war. So I went after Fred, who was already recently dow'd on by Peter (I was going to go after him too) I easily worked my way to Berlin, nabbing before Peter. However, and I was very wary of this problem, better had already earned some warscore with his own German acquisition and kills. After I took Berlin, though, I considered bribing Peter out. However, I thought I could hold off as Germany was still quite large. Nope, Fred vassaled to Petter next turn and basically my expansion cease.

Anyway, I crawled my way to space with what I had...slowly ..finishing in 1832 AD. I utilized State Prop. 5 golden ages.
 
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