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BOTM 82 (Ragnar, Deity) Final Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by DynamicSpirit, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Location:
    London, UK

    BOTM 82 Final Spoiler




    This is the thread to discuss how your entire game went.

    Did you win?

    Reading Requirements

    Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 82, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
    • You have submitted your entry, OR
    • You have abandoned your game and will not submit.

    Posting Restrictions
    Do not post any savegame file from the game until after the competition has closed (Sept 16). Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.[/QUOTE]
     
  2. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    900
    I gave up on this game due to some bad decisions and a bit of bad luck.

    As mentioned before, I decided to go for the Great Lighthouse, and was very glad to have done so when I discovered all the islands. I settled all of them and still maintained a somewhat decent techrate by keeping open borders with everyone (and suffered almost no diplomatic penalties for doing so).

    I won Liberalism in the 300s but couldn't take something big so went for Nationalism. I made a very late Cuirassier attack on Gandhi in 900 I think, which was only to be a short distraction before I went Rifles/Cavalry and Cannons a bit later. I thought that to be a good plan with 14 cities already settled (but still dead last in score :(). Bribed Saladin in and attacked two turns later. However, I had been misled by Gandhi's peaceful behavior, as he had more troops than I had counted before. I lost too many Cuirassiers, and just when I was gaining the upper hand Saladin took a city (I had taken three) and he vassaled to him.

    With Saladin being able to research Rifles, I somehow thought I had to act fast, and in a rage threw about twenty-five Curs at his newly conquered city which had his stack in it. Needless to say, not enough of them survived. Thinking a bit longer would have taught me to wait for Cannons + Rifles as originally intended...

    I liked this map a lot, good setup. Barbs weren't a problem either on sea or on land, which was a surprise since I did little fogbusting. It made the game all the more enjoyable...thanks for the map, and looking forward for the next one!
     
  3. Sleepless

    Sleepless Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
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    3,513
    Well wish I'd got the Glh. It had gone in my game by the time I had masonry. Must admit a bit of an after thought though.

    Anyway a few struggles in the game. Missed Lib by 1 turn. Bad planning on my part as I though I had plenty of time. Obviously not.. :lol:

    Did manage to settle the islands to the East so even without the Glh not to bad at early teching.

    Planned a cuirassier rush on Ghandi. Was going well just before I declared with Ghandi's stack heading off to the West as Sal and Boud had declared on him. Then just before I declared Isabella took offence at my refusal to give her money and declared on me. Fun chasing her galleons down. She even took a city on the far East island in the top right hand corner. Why she sailed so far I don't know.

    Anyway by the time I'd got peace with her. Sal had made peace but Boud was still at war with Ghandi forcing him to keep troop building with no way of getting to Boudica. Anyway I managed to re-group. Faced a lot harder war with Ghandi but vassaled him eventually.

    Next on to Sal. He had a very big stack including lots of rifles on a hill. Think I need cannons. I was right. Managed to cap him with rifles/cannons/cavalry.

    Next Isabella. Time for revenge. 2 of her cities down and my new vassal number 3.

    By now Mansa hadn't been slow. He had Boud and Darius as vassals and was way ahead of tech on me. So I started thinking of a Diplo victory.

    Farmed everywhere. Realised I was a bit short of pop so took most of Darius's cities.. Aaargghh few votes short. I managed to get another big stack together and took one of Mansas cities just before the next vote and with the gain of those votes diplo victory in 1850AD.

    Thanks for the game DS. :goodjob:
     
  4. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
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    Location:
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    Well, youse guys did much better than I--retired 1100 when Gandhi got Rifling (from his new master, Mansa) and I was attacking with...well, units not as good as gj and Sleepless had at that time. :blush: A big mistake was taking my eye off the GLH--perfect Wonder for this game and I just blew it. Should have researched Masonry well before Alphabet. :hammer2: Even so I wasn't doing toooo badly--worked my way up to 4th and managed to take 3 cities off Gandhi on my way to (I intended) capping him. But the turn before I was going to take his 4th city, he vassaled to Mansa and my war weariness spiked. I grimly marched on, hoping that Mansa didn't have his heart in it (although he tried to take one of my cities on the farthest island) and that I could break Gandhi free and vassal him. I had a good stack next to a 5th city but then he upgraded to Rifles (after advancing about 4 techs in as many turns courtesy of his benefactor) and it became hopeless.

    I really liked the map on this one and coulda/shoulda done better so I'm hoping to find the time to take another shot at it for fun. Thanks for the game, DS, and kudos to anyone who tried Deity, especially the winners! :salute:
     
  5. Jastrow

    Jastrow Deity

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    2,685
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    Well, I did manage to launch a space ship sometime arounf 1830 or so... For me, on Diety, that is already an accomplishment. Unfortuntaly, it was about 6 turns AFTER MM's ship (it would have beating MM to culture by about 10 turns...). I made a few mistakes in sub-uptimum trading in the late game which probably slowed me by 2 or 3 turns, and might have accelerated MM by 5 or 6... I thought the biggest danger was is culture, not his ship. Having said that, without those trades, his culture would have been a bit faster...

    Perhaps with a perfect end game was the situation just winnable, or perhaps I could just have made it a bit closer. Not sure... In any event, just getting to launch on Deity is an accomplishment for my skill level...
     
  6. toller pretzl

    toller pretzl A 1000 years of broccoli

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    Cultural victory in 1685 (contender)
     
  7. toller pretzl

    toller pretzl A 1000 years of broccoli

    Joined:
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    About the early game
    I was planning to post in the first spoiler as well, but then I read that some players had only met a few of the AI by 1 AD. My initial scout had met all of them, and he also helped to give me the navigation bonus together with a workboat coming from the other side.
    In the testgames I played, my initial scout died quite soon, so in this game I was moving him just one square whenever appropriate.

    Corn or Pig ?
    Jastrow in the pregame thread was emphatic about the corn and the pig : "wet corn is still the best tile in the game" he said and "pig is nearly useless early on". The same sentiment I read in a few other posts. Now this I found funny, because they are both 6 food, right ? Naturally we don't need them both in the very early game. But since we have hunting as a starting tech, AH can be our quick jumping point for an Alphabet beeline. We don't need to research Agriculture at all, we can trade it soon enough. So for this game, Pig was the way to go.

    Early barbs
    I think DynamicSpirit was very kind and thoughtful to provide us our little private corner in this game. It was a good way to make Deity winnable. Probably he had not foreseen the early barb onslaught. It gave me problems just like the others have described. In fact I had one crucial battle that I won with only about 35 percent chance. I needed that bit of luck to make it through the early game.

    GLH
    I didn't try to build the GLH. I had a notion (clearly wrong) that it would be foolish to try to get any wonders against the deity AI. So probably I could have improved my game a lot there. Although there's always a trade off of course.

    Big mistake
    One very stupid thing I did was to bomb the first GA I got from music. I thought that I might overwhelm the barb city on the next island with my culture, and then it would be worth it. But overwhelming doesn't work across the water.

    One surprising game mechanic
    For a long time I was running Mercantilism, without knowing Economics. I had 3 trade routes per city. Later I bought some tech from the AI, just to have some use for the Great Merchants I got from the auxiliary cities. But when I bought Economics, my 3 trade routes per city were reduced to 2. I was actually penalised for knowing Economics and not switching to Free Trade. That surprised me.
     
  8. zamint3

    zamint3 Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Denmark
    Gandhi launched with one engine 1785 AD and won the space race 1818 AD, 6 turns ahead of me. :(

    My 10 cities, mainly on the islands, simply did not have enough production. :crazyeye:

    Peaceful game all the way, defensive pact with Gandhi and Saladin and they vassaled the rest. :mischief:

    About 1770 AD Saladin started a war against Mansa with a SOD of 127 units, mainly infantry, tanks, gunships, paratroopers and bombers. At that point my army consisted of 11 warriors, 1 chariot, 1 airship, 2 frigates, 1 trireme and 5 galleys. :lol:
     
  9. Sleepless

    Sleepless Deity

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    Weird.. I would have thought it would have been the other way round. Two with merc assuming you have currency (which you would have). Three with the extra trade route from running Free Market.

    Knowing corporation would give you 3 trade routes per city whilst running merc. :dunno:
     
  10. Jastrow

    Jastrow Deity

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    Yes, I should have worded that better... What I meant of course is that second 6-food tile was nearly useless. Even if we had had two corns for example, I would still have mined gold before farming the second one...

    Agreed that one could go pig instead of corn, in general. The reason why the question was as it was in my mind was that my primary deliberation was SIP or on plains hill (loses pig)... This was the context of my thinking, and once I settled on Plains hill, the decision was closed. Had I chosen SIP instead, then Pig OR Corn would have been the next stage of the thinking process.
     
  11. Falabello

    Falabello Prince

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    Well seemed - 13 cities: 5 on continent and 8 on the islands. My target was United Nations, and Mansa got it when I was finishing Radio. Even that I was the Secretary General (a couple of elections after) and had 3 or 4 chances to win the election, but Gandhi didn't help me :(...

    But it was a good game, and I survived till the final (in the end I surpassed Isabella in the score :D)

    I'm still trying to understand what happened with this situation: 2 Destroyers (right) attacked my Galley (left) one after another and both lost the battles... :eek:...
    Wow, my little ship was a real hero :)... Can someone explain it :confused:???
     

    Attached Files:

  12. c00per

    c00per Settler

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    Space race loss to India in 1870... But it's quite an improvement from my previous deity experience in BOTM 76 (conquest loss in early ADs) :) Of course having Gandhi as a neigbor helped a lot to survive till the very end :mischief:

    I tried the infamous CtE method to win but failed miserably. And Gandhi was a little furious (about -20 :mad:) at the end :lol:

    Spoiler :
    Now I kinda understand what it's like to play against team USA for the other teams because my experience in deity was very similar :lol:
     
  13. toller pretzl

    toller pretzl A 1000 years of broccoli

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    Spoiler :
    <Jillert Anema mode>:confused: But isn't football (soccer) the only teamsport in which USA competes with the rest of the world ? And that feels more like a chieftain experience for the other teams :cool:
     
  14. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    There should be some sort of special award for that. I really want to build such Galleys as well.
     
  15. zbgayumn

    zbgayumn Emperor

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    Ann Arbor, MI
    I took the adventurer save, first because I know I'm hopeless on Deity, and second because I just wanted to see what it would be like to have a city like that.

    It ended in a loss in 1878 with Gandhi going to space.

    I used a semi-OCC approach early on because my goal was a religious victory. I was successful in using the Oracle sling to get Theology, but then I realized that my paradise city was pretty low on production. I chopped all the forests into Oracle because I knew it was getting late for a Diety Oracle date. I was stuck building AP for like 40 turns. I tried to use whip overflow, but I could never get a very significant amount. I missed getting AP by 1 turn, maybe 2.

    After that, I drifted for a bit, not knowing what to do. I worked on expanding to the islands, so that I at least got 7 cities in my empire. Eventually I decided the only choice I had was to make a lame attempt at cultural victory. I spent the next 100 turns working on that, even though it looked hopeless the whole time.

    My capital was going Legendary in the next 4 turns, but the other two were nowhere close. In face, Mansa would've beaten me to cultural victory.

    As mentioned above, this is the longest I've ever survived into a Diety game, so that there's that to be happy about.
     
  16. ShiVvV

    ShiVvV Warlord

    Joined:
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    1904 AD-retired (wannabe a contender save :lol:)
    I surrendered to Sally (Master of Gandhi, Mansa, Darius) on the turn he finally declared against me. Infantry/machine guns/tanks + battleships/destroyers versus mech infantry/modern armor/jet fighters/bombers + missile cruisers, etc.---ehh, no ty.

    Highlights and Lowlights
    The plan became to shoot for space powered by Mining Inc. which I founded in 1575AD. Sally, Gandhi and I became a friendly Jewish bloc for much of the game. I was able to get a few spaceship parts built while maintaining decent relations with Sal and letting him conquer the world. Sal was not far from a cultural victory either. He didn't have the votes to win diplo w/o my votes.

    I ended up with 12 cities (5 on mainland but only 2 of these mainland cities very good). Gandhi nabbed two city sites on mainland from me which hurt. During game I built what I felt was just enough military to deter Mansa or Izzy from attacking but towards the endgame I probably had too many units--but not nearly enough to defend myself from Sal & Co.

    Gandhi won Lib in 600 AD.

    How Sal did it
    Boudica peacevassalled to Sal (1020 AD) and fought numerous wars alongside him. Gandhi was their first victim (1735 AD) followed by Mansa (1872 AD) and Darius (1876 AD). Boudica broke free of Sal towards end.
    I was OK until Sal decided he no longer wanted to be Jewish. I was able to do some espionage against him to try to keep him out of Free Religion but the clock was ticking once he dropped out of Theocracy. I was hoping Sal would declare on either Boudica or Izzy, which would've bought me more time, but alas...I was the target of the fist-of-doom.

    I ran Nationalism for a good portion of game and was able to steal some techs from Gandhi. I narrowly averted an early game-ending DoW from Gandhi by gifting him a mainland junk city.

    So, some good things, and a decent push at a space victory. No answer for Sal's army though.

    Thanks for the map, DS. Enjoyed the game.

    Some screenies:
    Spoiler :
     
  17. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    AP diplomatic victory in 1844.

    Was trying for a military victory but all my timings were off. I captured 2 arab cities but lost to many cats against the arab capital and with them pumping elephants I had to make peace.

    I tried to liberalism to get Nationalism and then get cuirasiers, but lost hte race to Gandhi. Suddenly gandhi exploded. From having parity in tech he was suddenly way ahead.

    I still got cuirsasiers, but when I wanted to declare war Saladin had riflemen. I took a 3 day pause and decided my only chance for victory was AP diplomatic. I had good relations with Gandhi so I hope4d that would be enough. I liberated one of the arab cities after I spread Buddhism in it. Sent missionaries to Mansa and Gandhi.

    Gandhi was not enough for me to win so I tried to work on Mansa and Darius to get a second person voting on me. Mansa and his vassal Darius declared war on the Celts so I joined to build relations. the celts capitulated to Mansa after losing her only Buddhist city. Now she hated me and I did not have open borders.

    Then I manage to pass open borders in the AP so I could spread Buddhism to Mecca and give Mecca to the Celts. But before the cote they liberated it to Saladin.

    I now sent out settlers everywhere and manage to liberate a city on the ice south of Mansa to the Celts.

    Then Gandhi declared war on the Arabs and took one of the two Buddist cities. With 5 turns to a vote they would loose the second one as well. I was unable to liberate a city as Saladin refused to speak to me.

    Luck would have it that Mansa made the UN send peacekeeping forces keeping Gandhi away. And I managed to win on the next vote.

    I should probably just have waited longer and ignored army with good relations with Gandhi. Would have been able to have curs 20 turn earlier. Or I should have attack Gandhi instead of Saladin as I lost a lot of time moving my army. And probably Saladin is less likely of making peace with Gandhi.

    Half a year to the next game. I will have to learn from my mistakes.
     
  18. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I managed a 1928 space colony victory. But it was my second go at it. My first attempt got bogged down on barb defense and I fell behind. I never should have been able to win the second attempt, but Mansa and his vassals Darius and Gandhi were at war for the last 800 years with Isabella. That kept them occupied and off my tail.
     
  19. chessplaya

    chessplaya Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
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    Location:
    Michigan
    I'm still a long way from finishing this game, but I thought my game so far was interesting enough to write about.

    I settled in place. Tech path: Ag->Mining->BW->Arch->Sailing->Wheel->Masonry->Myst->AH->Pottery->Writing->Aesth. GLH was finished in 1360BC--it should have been sooner but my micro was sloppy. By the time I settled cities 2+3 on the islands, all my potential mainland spots were taken by Gandhi, so that was probably a mistake.

    I was first to CoL in 600BC, which I traded to Mansa for Lit and won the Music race. My first and only GP so far was a merchant, which was cashed in the ToA city for 1300 gold and fueled research as well as trades. My plan was to use Berserkers+Cats against Gandhi, who was slow to Feud, and it worked better than expected since I traded Paper+Optics+gold to Mansa for Eng. I declared war on Ghandi in 300AD with an army of 5 zerkers, 4 cats, and a treb, since I wanted to take his hill city before he had longbows. After that I whipped my cities hard for more units, and my current army in 600AD has captured 4 cities and contains 12 zerkers, 7 trebs, and 2 cats.

    Another key trade was Paper+Compass+gold->Philo from Darius, which helped me to take Astro with Liberalism in 580AD, about a turn before Mansa would have won Lib. Besides being an expensive tech, Astro re-established my foreign trade routes. I just revolted to FR, and I have the third-highest score with +455 bpt at 100% slider and +236 gold at 0% slider. I think I'm in great shape to win this game.

    toller pretzl: That's a very impressive victory date! To explain the game mechanic that you discovered--Economics obsoletes castles, which give an extra trade route. I'm guessing you built some of those.
     
  20. toller pretzl

    toller pretzl A 1000 years of broccoli

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    Thank you! That's exactly it.
     

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