BOTM 86 Final Spoiler

[Deckhand]

This is the thread to discuss how your entire game went.

Was this an easy or hard game?
What part was fun?


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• You have submitted your entry, OR
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Posting Restrictions
Do not post any savegame file from the game until after the competition has closed. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.[/QUOTE]

 

[enKage]

First!

Went stonehenge for great priest theo bulb, then Oracle for forge for quicker construction or engineer chance, used gscientist for easy religion swap while building AP.

I was just to finish with BC religious victory, but a turn or 2 before voting Genghis revolted to AP religion, so could not vote for me as he became my resident opponent. I was so angry and because of that hitting enter so carelessly, that I forgot to change mongolian religion before the next voting too. Won at 3rd voting remembering to bribe Genghis to change religion to nonAP, so I could take his votes. me+Vicky + Genghis, (judaist block + war bonus against Justin).

Wanted reliogious as soon as I found at t3 what are the rivals. Knowing it from demo screen was extremely easy, only 1 was impossible to guess (Vicky), but she was close enough to know her early.

For me - extremely easy game. At least for AP victory

 

[nocho]

I went for diplo which I got in 1565AD for a reasonable score of 178k or something.

Diplo actually turned out a bit tricky, the way religions fell. I axe-rushed Justinian early, as the starting area was good for 3 reasonable cities, but not much more. With Justinian's turf got a reasonable chunk of land, converting constantinople in GP farm. Justinian was the buddhist of course and seemed to have dedicated his short life on converting the Mongols. The other three were firmly hindu though, with Joao calling the shots with a more than averagely menacing AP. The Mongols were most natural next target, but somehow I had to make a wedge in the hindu fold for someone then to vote for me, while meanwhile not risking an AP loss. So gobbled up Mongolia and after some careful planning struck Portugal (just after an AP vote which, in turn, basically were all religious leader votes, that luckily where balanced enough to have no winner; however if I would be opponent, the other 3 would vote for each other). That all went well and went hindu myself when I could effectively block the AP.
Vicky let herself be bribed into war with Joao too, which I thought was convenient as Joao had slightly higher power at the start of the war. When Joao was down to 3 cities got worried he might vassal to Vicky, so bought her into peace. Next turn however, Joao the bastard peace vassals to Vicky anyway, getting me in a war with Vicky. Redcoats and cavalry vs Janissaries and Cuirs didn't look very pretty. I was beelining mass media at the time of course so hadn't invested further in military techs than MT. However, with airships kept Vicky at bay, but took an eternity for her to talk to me again. Joao meanwhile was eliminated however.

Meanwhile sucked up to Cyrus, religious bonus and also went vassalage. A problem occurred when he suddenly got bigger than Vicky and thus would be my opponent. A neglect on my side left a city undefended for Vicky to take, but that actually helped her back with pop. Leaving another city undefended, this time intentionally, was enough for her to overtake Cyrus again and be my opponent. That 2nd city was also enough for her to regain her senses and talk peace. By then got Cyrus just to friendly, sealing the fate of the game.

Of note was that I got 5 MoM golden ages, including the one from Taj. Also had a GM to rush UN. From that maybe should've been faster, but it was a very enjoyable, especially balancing the diplo, both to avoid AP trouble and to win UN.

 

[FiveRings]

Went for conquest and got it in 1770. Could be earlier if I hadn't gambled to kill Cyrus before GK. Of course, got a stab in the back and had to war with both of them and Jo vassalizing to them - first to Cyrus, then to GK, then back to Cyrus till the end. Could be much earlier if I have strted a war with GK first, but I was a bit wary of the keshiks at a time I wasn't close to ENG.
EDIT: Not very difficult. Jenissaries were real fun with everybody slower at teching in the beginning. nly two moments of concern: first, when my empire became too big to manage the mintenance without markets and banks, and second, when GK stabbed me as my stack was at the other end of the world and comprised of cats and jens.

 

[WastinTime]

I tried for a really quick Domination, not trying for score at all.
Ended up with a sorta-quick domination.

I planted all my final cities for land-domination, but I was about 5% short on Population! I never even think about population. It's always automatic once you get the land.

Now, however, I'm running -400 gpt and my units are on strike. No way to war and even my workers are dying. So I had to press enter for 10-15 turns before my population grew enough to win. Kinda sad.

760AD with around 230K score.

 

[Gosha190]

I tried for a really quick Domination, not trying for score at all.
Ended up with a sorta-quick domination.

I planted all my final cities for land-domination, but I was about 5% short on Population! I never even think about population. It's always automatic once you get the land.

Now, however, I'm running -400 gpt and my units are on strike. No way to war and even my workers are dying. So I had to press enter for 10-15 turns before my population grew enough to win. Kinda sad.

760AD with around 230K score.

Oh, no! amazing!

I didnt play civ more than 6 years and so its my first game. I really forget almost all a knew before. Iv played conqwest, but made a lot mistakes and finish in 13-th century by knights vs knights
And I dont anderstand how you could finish so early. On 1AD I just began maceman building and started war near 500AD. It was 2 session game. 1-st session I finished in 1140AD after only 1 AI stay alive.

 

[WastinTime]

Oh, no! amazing!

I didnt play civ more than 6 years and so its my first game. I really forget almost all a knew before. Iv played conqwest, but made a lot mistakes and finish in 13-th century by knights vs knights
And I dont anderstand how you could finish so early. On 1AD I just began maceman building and started war near 500AD. It was 2 session game. 1-st session I finished in 1140AD after only 1 AI stay alive.

Hi Gosha! I remember you from way back. Your name is still scattered about the HoF. For really early dom, you just have to be singularly focused. You plant a dozen or so settlers and go -400 gpt with no plans to recover your economy. Then it is supposed to just take a couple turns to pop borders (running artists), but as I said, I had to wait a bit longer.

 

[Gosha190]

sure, I remember how to play early domi

But this time AI expansion was wery quick - I mean domi was impossible w/o war! BIG WAR!

As for me, chariot rush was unreal - too large map. You need both - settlers and defenders from barbs - too many hummers... From other hand I didnt play too many ears and lost domi skill.

 

[WelshGandalf]

An insanely hard fought domination at 1800AD!

So from my first spoiler... the Mongols did indeed take ages to take the last city of whatever empire was to the south of ours (I forget, it was so long ago) and I set about developing my cities peacefully (I had about 7 now, from the 3 I started with). Took miltrad with lib in 1190AD-ish? This felt a good time from the terrible start I had. A few turns later gunpowder was in and I set about getting an army of cuirs whilst ruining my economy. Rawr!

Once the mogols finally took the last city off that other civ, they declared war on the English, like 3 turns later. They took 2 cities off the English, then I backstabbed them with my cuirs & some spies to remove defences. Yeah! Take that Mongols! Unfortunately about 2 turns later the English reached a peace deal and I had to deal with all these annoying war elephants. Boo!

Anyhow I eventually managed to wrestle them down to 2 cities, when they peacevassaled to the Portugese. By this time my economy was utterly on its knees though I was working to Steel (took 30-35 turns to research it!) and the others were teching well. I needed to keep hitting people with my army of cuirs!

It goes a bit fuzzy around here, but, the English (who I got on well with thanks to past wars, shared religions etc.) declared on the Portuguese after I asked them to and gave them all the techs I had that they didn't. Then I declared on the Portugese too, took the last 2 mongol cities and even managed to take a Portugese city. The Portugese were going pretty well here. They took an English city too. Then I agreed peace with the Portugese, then I bribed them to stop warring with the English, then I declared war on the English myself.

I took most of their cities even as they were teching to Rifling. Thankfully taking the cities slowed their rate down. I wanted just 1 more city before accepting their capitulation, then they peace-vassaled to the Portugese! Nuts! And I STILL hadn't finished Steel.

With my army stuck inside a city covered by English territory, and only 4-5 turns until they had rifling, I had to do it - I had to declare on the monster Portugese empire. Even though I still didn't have Steel (but I nearly did!). All but one of the English cities fell quite quickly. The Portugese attacked me and in all honesty did me a favour by taking 4-5 border cities, this boosted my economy significantly and I was able to raise the scienece slider to the lofty heights of 20%, even 30% at one point! Steel was finished, and once Guilds and banking came in too and I revolted into mercantilism, I was earning 260 beakers @ 0% so that was nice.

Anyhooo, I heard people say that cannons + anything = win if managed properly. So I tried that. Loads of whipped cannons and drafted janissaries marched towards the enemy's cavalry/riflemen/catapults. As they had taken my border cities they made great targets for my stacks - 15 cannons could walk up from 3 spaces away, weaken the enemy and then my janissaries could walk in. I had trouble getting the numbers together though.

Eventually I was able to turn the tide. I had two decent stacks and I did suffer some setbacks. I had to retreat sometimes after losing half a stack, I even had to abandon some of my gains. Things got more awkward with their airships bombing me. But eventually I too got to rifling and got to upgrading lots of things/building cavalry etc. They got Steel and railroads towards the end but it wasn't enough for them. I would've been toast had he gone for assembly line....

91 dead cavalry later, I agreed peace in 1795 AD, and by setting the culture bar to 80% I was able to just fall over the domination limit in 1800AD. Hurrah!

 

[The-Hawk]

I had a bit of rotten luck early on in this one. I stole a worker from whoever was to our south. Had him roading his way back up to my capital as I was thinking about a horse rush. Worker was guarded by a warrior. A wounded lion appeared, but as my warrior and worker were on a hill, I decided to let him keep roading. Sure enough, the lion won a 2% attack against the warrior and then had my worker for dessert. Oh well, easy come, easy go.

I ended up with something like a 1350 conquest, under 200K score. I started out ok, but Joao got away from the other AIs and I ended up having to painfully recover my economy and then tech up to trebs.

Hi Gosha! I remember you from way back. Your name is still scattered about the HoF.

Yes... and if IIRC, part of a mostly-Russian team that used to dominate SGOTM. There were some outstanding players on that team, would love to see them go against the Ducks or TSR.

 

[lymond]

Interesting game. Land was pretty meh and not much room for peaceful expansion. No matter, I harassed Justy for some time getting free workers (who did not get eaten by lions ) before taking a couple of good cities from him. Left him with a really crap city he settled last minute on a copper to W of Nople. Kinda suck that he stayed alive and I never bothered with him again. (his culture caused a brief problem in Nople, but Nople wonder whored so I got it back and more)

I was very pleased with my war with GK. still very much BCs but as usually GK expanded fast to like 8 or 9 cities (I honestly think he is the fastest expander) Anyway, he went fist ofc. I had a feeling it was on Vicky. I waited this out a bit as I built up more HAs and a metal unit here and there.

GK had tons of units, but he Dow'd Vicky and sent most N taking an English city instantly. I Dow'd sending stacks N and S taking two of his western cities. He sniped an HA but backed off as I healed stacks. Actually took ceasefire so he redirected his big stack up north.

Attack on Krak had great strategic advantage for my HAs, so in 2t I dow'd again with stacks coming from NW and SW into positions to attack Krak. Ofc, GK had spears around, but I took the city with no problem. I then was able to fork again onto his Iron tile and pillage it next turn. Wiped 3 or 4 more cities easily but took ceasefire with 1 city remaining near English (silk, banana city). Reason was that he had huge stack back tracking from England. Bizarrely (I had Tao mish scouting in England) he basically just wandered a huge stack around English territory for many turns as i took his cities but did nothing to Vicky.

The ceasefire caused him once more to divert his troops back up N. I repositioned HAs for instant kill on his last city and took it easily. Buh bye GK!

I fought no more. Seriously consider it and it might have been better for Space, but with good relations with other AIs (less useless Justy) I figured I'd try a peaceful approach and boost AIs. Unfortunately that did not work quite as planned as the AIs consistently kept teching ridiculously stupid techs the whole game - and they all teched the same stupid techs..ha In fact, from a tech gift/trade perspective I don't think there was ever any help from them. Ofc, gold and trade routes helped)

Anyway, hunkered down for Space, filled in gaps and tried to plow to victory. Not very good date although not sure what is good on this small a map. forgot about PA until late and did PA with Cyrus eventually (Joao would have been better but he would not DP with me). It did help speed up those last several techs. One major problem is he did nab one of the space parts which really threw me off by at least 8 turns. HE put it in a terrible city. I actually sent 10 workers over to build workshops for him. Definitely one of the bad things about PAs.

Oh, I settled only 3 cities initially before Justy (cap, copper/corn and rice/copper) and only took 2 cities from Justy, so I was at like 5 cities for much of the BCs until GK war.

 

[Gosha190]

Yes... and if IIRC, part of a mostly-Russian team that used to dominate SGOTM. There were some outstanding players on that team, would love to see them go against the Ducks or TSR.

Thx! We remember all of u too.

 

[Minou]

Won't be submitting because my first game went down in flames and I rage quit (ill fated Ax-rush against mount-top Archers). However, I was inspired by enKage detailing the recipe for an early AP victory.

After several million tries, completed one in 275BC. It was a great learning experience - I did not previously know, for example, that you can win a religious victory without running the AP religion. That helped tremendously, as it allowed me to build the AP under Confucianism and spread it, but then gain the shared religion bonus with GK while avoiding having him be my opponent by converting to Christianity myself and bribing him into it.

The game was also a nail biter at the end because Victoria closed borders and refused to talk, which kept me from sending a missionary or even gifting a city with Confucianism. I had to build a jungle city and declare war so she would capture it, but it took until the last turn before the vote to grow the city to size 2 so it would not be razed (and I guess she had the option to raze it anyway but of course did not).

For those who are experts on AP/UN victories, I was wondering if there was a set clock that determines when the "shared military struggle" / "wisely chosen civics" bonuses roll over from +1 to +2? It seems to take 8 turns for the former and 10 for the latter but I was not keeping precise time.

Does anyone know how the "supplied us with resources" bonus works? I gifted two resources to GK for many years hoping for this, but never got a bonus from it. I was not sure if it required more turns or more resources (or if it both come into play - is gifting 1 resource for 20 turns the same value as gifting 2 resources for 10 turns?).

 

[WastinTime]

Does anyone know how the "supplied us with resources" bonus works? I gifted two resources to GK for many years hoping for this, but never got a bonus from it. I was not sure if it required more turns or more resources (or if it both come into play - is gifting 1 resource for 20 turns the same value as gifting 2 resources for 10 turns?).

I think it's 50 turns.
And yes, gifting 5 resources for 10 turns works.

However, if you are ever at 0 resources, I believe they can forget the bonus. All I know is I always keep one active.

 

[enKage]

Won't be submitting because my first game went down in flames and I rage quit (ill fated Ax-rush against mount-top Archers). However, I was inspired by enKage detailing the recipe for an early AP victory.

The basic recipe is Oracling Theo.
this particular game with so high early production and opponents easy to guess from demo screen allowed non typical Stonehenge shot..

If heading for AP victories, you NEVER want AP religion to be run by anyone. Shared religion bonus is too precious to loose whilst voting and you want to have no opponents when voting comes.

Usually shared religion + fav civic is enough, but lack of leaders with OReligion fav civic forced to declare war on someone and get common war bonus instead

Also do not declare to spread religion. Gift junky city instead.

BTW
Nice anyone was inspired by my game xD

 

[Minou]

Thanks for the feedback. Should have given all of those resources away! May I ask how you determined the AI identities from the Demographics screen enKage?

 

[Gosha190]

imho, this is no way to determin. U should count pops just using map as cities pops total.

 

[enKage]

Thanks for the feedback. Should have given all of those resources away! May I ask how you determined the AI identities from the Demographics screen enKage?

All are imperialistic. Happines chart indicated there is charismatic leader (unless someone settled on gold or gems) = Cyrus, the only charismatic+ imp.
t3 - no land increase, so no Cathy in game.
Power charts - indicated 1 leader with no wheel nor mining and if you sum all values, the only possibility was to have 2 with the wheel = genghis and justinian, 1 without both (cyrus, already known) and 2 with mining and no wheel.
Healthy ranks made very very probable Joao, the only unknown was Rome or Vicky, but Vicky was close enough to get complete set of AIs

Spoiler :

for power ratio
minimum - 17k, - Cyrus, known because of charismatic trait
maximum - 21 - leader with the wheel
wheel is worth 4k, mining 2k
If you multiply the average value and take away min and max value, it is clear that there is 8k for 3 leaders. The only possibility is 1 more with the wheel, and 2 with mining. There is no possibility of 3rd leader with the wheel, because it is Suleiman, played by us.
So
There is Cyrus, 2 with the wheel (Genghis+Justin), 2 with mining.

No Charlie in game (that was clear at t1, when it was sure there is Cyrus in game) made me think there would be little competiotion on religious path, so I chose Stonehenge-Theo bulb to get AP win.