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BOTM 87 Final Spoiler -Game over or abandoned

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by kcd_swede, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    BOTM 87 Final Spoiler -Game over or abandoned


    This is the thread to discuss how your entire game went.

    Was this an easy or hard game?
    Did you get to the New World in time?
    What part if any was fun?


    Reading Requirements

    Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 87, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
    • You have submitted your entry, OR
    • You have abandoned your game and will not submit.

    Posting Restrictions
    Do not post any savegame file from the game until after the competition has closed. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.[/QUOTE]
     
  2. Gosha190

    Gosha190 Chieftain

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    I spent a lot of hummers to bild warriors and they all lost to barbs archers. I do not see way to play this map. We are short in res, there is no playces to settle good cities and to defend it. And there was no possibility to bild good seaside cities. When I bilt carrack, AI bilt galeons. What is an idiea of this map? Lost war to France after 1000AD.
     
  3. Jenarie

    Jenarie Chieftain

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    Gosha you are my hero! I was feeling horrible that I lost so fast but at least now I know I'm not the only one. :)

    I took the adventurer save but even Monarch is higher than my normal level and this game was really tough for me. I usually don't have trouble with barbs on Prince level but there seems to be a big step between the two because they stomped me hard this time. Survived the onslaught but lost my second city to them and they were defending with two archers so I couldn't get it back with my warriors and archers only and had to forget about it until I could find a metal. I finally got iron but by that time Monty had decided he was mad at me and I barely got the iron hooked up before Monty took out the iron city and then the capital and then my last city with cats/jags/axes versus my tons of archers since they were all I could make most of the game.

    This one was hard for me to take because although I'm sure there's lots I could have done better I can't really think of anything I did that was completely stupid (other than refusing Monty's demand when he asked for my best tech). But in the early game although I must not have played ideally I still felt like I was on track so was just really bummed when the barbs took me by surprise and got that city.

    I'm starting to wonder if I'm training myself to bad habits by playing prince level and if I should just move up and lose every game for a while because the step between prince and monarch seems a lot steeper than the one between noble and prince which I made rather easily.
     
  4. Gosha190

    Gosha190 Chieftain

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    Iv played the map few times trying to find out how it should be played and a lot of things differs from time to time: distirbution of religion and AI relationship, how much AI I could met befor Alphabet was researched, my luck in battles with barbs... But each time France is a monster and my destiny depends on my relations with France and I have no influence on that equation. One time I was friendly with two my neighbors but France decleared war to me anyway. And all other AI was afraided to fight with France due to outstanding power of France. It looks like map unbalance.

    Surely It is just my opinion, Im not deity player and really I love fat maps only. Because ot that reason I beleive - Map Finder is my best friend, not terrible kdc swede! :(
     
  5. Jenarie

    Jenarie Chieftain

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    I just double checked my loss and France was WAY out ahead of all the other AI in my game as well at 720 AD (turn 146).

    In score, France was as far ahead of the other AI as the rest of them were from me. :)
    In power, France was only fourth in my game but the top four were all close and he'd been in the top three for most of the game.
     
  6. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    Definitely a tough map. Its rare that a map turns out harder than I expect, but this is one of those times. I knew the crowding would cause problems, but expected it to keep AI fairly small and manageable. Of course, I thought I was doing you a favor by leaving above avg amount of land for you to expand into, but failed to consider that it would lead to so many barb troubles.

    Oh well... everyone needs a crushing defeat now and then.:satan:
     
  7. reedmaster

    reedmaster Chieftain

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    Madison, WI
    I lost in 500 AD. Willem van Oranje got me. I had even converted to Hinduism for him but it didn't matter. I think my military was just way too weak and he saw me as easy pickings.

    The barbs hurt me in the beginning and killed a settler, but I protected them a little better after that. I managed to get 4 cities up and running. Things weren't going too badly for a while even though all the AIs were getting way ahead in tech. I'd research one they hadn't (Curr & CoL). Just before I was conquered, I had almost caught up with everyone else. Immortal is above my level but it was a good learning experience.
     
  8. c00per

    c00per Settler

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    AI capitals with 2xFish, 3xClam and wet Corn isn't fun, especially when you get nothing.
    At least this was fun:


    Not much else to tell, just another shamefully late 3x50k victory.
     
  9. greatbeyond

    greatbeyond Chieftain

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    Luck of the rng might be a good title for this game.

    I went to the plains hill for fast expansion and was doing nicely.
    Circa 0BC I had just raced a Settler down to the Copper on the east coast and had 5 cities with 3 barb cities sandwiched in. My economy is close to crashing. The wonders went so fast I couldn't even get any fail gold. Working on Archery but still only had warriors. AI is out in front on techs and there are lots of wars going on. I am at +4 with Izzy due to a demand and at -1 to +1 with all the others. Judaism is the religion of the masses, but it will not spread to me so no relationship bonus with the AI.

    Some AIs are circling the lower Barb city. Pacal has a stack of units that appears to be heading for the lower Barb city, one I want because they have Horses. His units stop adjacent to the city , execute a right face and attack the copper city defended by 2 Warriors. He razes it then heads for Coimbra which is just left of center near Monty. I fill the city with Warriors, then get Archers too. I manage to hold him off, but then have to settle a city on the east coast north of the copper just so I can gift him and then get peace.

    At this point, 100AD I am way behind on techs and let research take precedence over military. Elizabeth has been the punching bag for everyone due to her being the odd woman out on religion. However she still seems to be holding her own. Isabella has also been under fire. The rest of the continent seems to be in chaos with everyone making and breaking pacts with each other. Ragnar, who has been at war with Liz moves his units to Coimbra and attacks with Knight, Berserkers, Cats, and Trebs. It is game over around 1300AD so I retire instead of dragging it out for another dozen turns.

    Neither Pacal nor Ragnar made any demands before attacking. At that point to save my skin I would have licked their boots and hope to be able to pay them back later.
     
  10. ShiVvV

    ShiVvV Chieftain

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    I enjoyed the map, kcd swede. This was one of those games where things kinda came together at just the right time for me instead of things suddenly going to pot and me scratching my head.

    Considering Portugal's early opportunities to settle overseas I thought initially of getting carracks asap, beelining Lib/Communism and establishing strong presence in New World--but, I don't play m(any) Terra maps so--heck with that! Actually I did establish one true New World city and one northern islands resource-grabber city. The rest of New World was left to Pacal and Willem.

    The Old World was not a safe place considering all the 'declare at please' AIs. I suppose it could have even been worse had Napoleon replaced Louis, Shaka replaced Willem and Katherine been somewhere in the mix.

    Finding ways to raise happy cap soonish was essential on this map (monarchy>calendar). Whipping builds into workers/settlers provided some nice overflow mechanics with Portugal's trait combo. I managed to get just enough swords just quick enough to take 2 (3?) barb cities to fill me out to about 10 cities I think before any warring.

    Got Lib about 1110AD (barely won it I think; a lowish odds GMerchant really helped the Lib push).
    Cuirs followed shortly thereafter-with rifle/cannon/cav not too far behind them.

    A DoW from either Monty or Willem before I was ready could have ruined this game. Fortunately there was just enough religious tension among AIs so that I was not either's worse enemy--until later;). Pacal's Judaism became the dominant and the AP religion.

    Soooo...once Monty and Louis had pounded on each other for a few centuries, with Liz jumping in when the mood hit her...I declared on Monty (while he was busy entertaining Louis) with a goodly amount of Cuirs (I declare at pleased also). Once Monty was vassalled things snowballed quickly. Willem next, then Pacal, then a large but surprisingly wimpy Louis (even with a Viking vassal of his own). Game ended while preparing for final attack vs. Liz (master of 8-city Izzy and 3-city HCapac).

    I had noticed much earlier in the game that only one AI did not have the AP religion (and this AI wasn't Izzy :mischief:). I spread AP religion to the outlier AI (Ragnar in his island fortress) so that if worse came to worse, the AP was an option. So while healing my 2 stacks in Paris and Orleans, the AP voted and said "Hey, just give it to him"...so I took it.

    Thanks for the map, kcd.
     
  11. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    Congrats! Good game, and thanks for the write-up, I enjoyed hearing about the game and it helps me understand better how the AI and map affect strategies which can only aid me in being more evil in the future.:goodjob:
     
  12. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

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    Holy crap, what a game! I was in a pretty good position when I retired but it was going to be a long hard slog and it had already been a long hard slog, and I can't afford that much time. Congrats to those who won this--definitely a challenge!

    Back at 1 AD I was in decent shape and hadn't been attacked by anybody. I Lib'd Military Tradition, which did me no good without any horses (thanks again, kcd ;)), but I settled a city in the New World to claim them fairly soon after. I was also first to Astro and settled on the northern continent--mostly hammer cities but I put my National Epic GP farm over by the rice(?), floodplains, and lake. Maintenance costs were a big drain until I got the Forbidden Palace up. The AI were very slow to settle overseas but Huayna ended up with quite a few both north and south, and Wm liberated his colony in the south (Roosevelt), which was up to 10 cities by the time I quit.

    My first 2nd city in the New World was right on top of stone to speed up Oxford. I was saving up cash until it was completed which drew the unwanted attention of Monte. In 1500 or so he demanded 1200 gold. I knew it was a risk but I had to decline and up went the red fist. Gulp. He'd already vassalled Ragnar and Pacal. Fortunately Isabella was willing to accept a Defensive Pact so I jumped on that. Monte DoW'd 7 turns after my refusal and wiped out my main force of about 20 units in my SE city (dye, rice) with about 30 of his. I had a slight tech advantage (grens over muskets) and put everything I could into finishing Steel once Oxford was done. Cannon certainly helped but Monte still had a huge production lead, the help of his vassals, and his own cannon (he was first to Steel by a little). With brilliant battlefield tactics (ok, AI stupidity) I gradually turned the tide, recaptured my city (which was 5 turns from popping a GP when lost :mad:) and even took 3 of Monte's. I rejoiced at my success :D but then brave Isabella was finally overcome and vassaled. A few turns later my spy counted 70 Aztec units (including 27 knights, 14 cannon, and 14 muskets) coming down the road. :eek: I could scrape together maybe 20 for defense (8 cannon, 4 cavs, 1 rifle, 1 gren, 6 misc).

    Retreat!! My cavalry picked off a few isolated units and the rest abandoned my latest city prize, gifting it to Willem, who did not have open borders with Monte. I was worried about his knights getting ahead of me so I didn't linger to fight there. I fell back to the 2nd Aztec city I'd captured and picked off another 6 Aztec units from Dutch land. He was now down to about 70 units--he had 80 at the peak-- and I again abandoned the city and gave it to the Dutch, who had enough culture in the area to seal off that approach to my land with with the addition of that city to their territory. Monte reversed course to go west and then north toward the first city I'd captured from him. We did a little dance for several turns as I lured him one way then the other, buying time to build more units. He was back up to 72 units, but I lured him to attack a small stack of 4 on a jungled hill and he lost 9, plus another 6 wounded that I cleaned up with my cavs. It was now 57 versus 25. I didn't know what to do. If he moved his whole stack to my city he'd redline my units with cannon and then take it, but I didn't have enough units to cripple him in the field, and he'd just wipe out my survivors the next turn. Despairing, I went with the 2nd option, leaving enough units in the city to dissuade a knights-only rush (he could reach the city in one turn) and attacking his stack with all my cannon and then cavs, which finished off all his cannon with flanking. I was left with around 25 units in the area while Monte had 44 (25 knights) and Rags had a stack of 7 nearby.

    I hit Enter and waited for my stack to be annihilated. And nothing happened. :crazyeye: Monte sat there, no attack, no retreat. I attacked again with what I could, including a few fresh arrivals, and knocked him down to 31 units, all redlined, with 4 fresh units soon to arrive. This time he counterattacks with all 31. All 31 die, while I take no losses. Ragnar breaks free and vassalizes to Louis, while Isabella shows up with a fresh stack of her own. My units have survived but are in no shape to continue the fight so I take peace and 295 gold. There had been no opportunity to take peace before then unless I was willing to give Monte a city.

    I'd rather be good than lucky, but I'll take the latter any time it shows up. :) I rebuilt my forces with lots of cannon and cavs, expanded overseas, and attacked Monte around a dozen turns later. Things were going great, capturing cities, on the doorstep of two big ones with the defenses at 0% , and then he capitulates. To Louis. :mad::mad: So I turn to Willem, who doesn't have Steel yet, recapturing the two cities I'd given him and then taking two of his own northern cities before my attack stalls for lack of units. I take peace, recover a bit, and then go after Huayna who has a huge (former barb) city between me and Willem. I also capture a few overseas cities and we take peace. I get no techs out of these deals, and capitulation was never a real prospect. Willem already has infantry so I concentrate on tech for awhile until I get those and Artillery, then go after him again. City after city falls, but the most he'll give me for peace is maybe 200 gold. I end up capturing all his mainland cities and 3 overseas, leaving him with 2 tiny islands and 5 population. Still won't capitulate or give a tech. Unbelievable. I take peace and retire.

    A few AI have tanks by this time so I'd have to concentrate on research for awhile but I'm pretty sure I could conquer them all. HC and Liz are still independent, and Willem has a 10-city vassal. Rags, Isa, and Monte are vassals of Louis. But no vassals for me. Very frustrating.

    Anyway, a great challenge, but too time-consuming to finish. This was also the first time the game has crashed on me (4 times) in years.

    Edit: Evil#8 No coal within our natural mainland borders (short of a major war). I had to settle in the wild hinterlands of North America to get it.
    Evil#9 I didn't get to Industrialization but I'll bet kcd also put the aluminum in an awkward place. ;)
     
  13. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    Ouch! I get tired just reading about it!:goodjob:
     
  14. Minou

    Minou Chieftain

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    I teched AH and BW early and was disappointed not to see any war resources nearby. In retrospect early Pottery would have been much more useful. After having a good time messing around with the AP victory last game and seeing most of the AIs had the same favorite Civic, I decided to try for that.

    Montezuma caught me slacking on military and attacked early in the game. He managed to capture two small border cities and then marched around for a few centuries doing nothing before eventually suiciding all his units. I was not first to Theocracy but managed to build the AP with some helpful saved forests while at war. Only had Judaism had spread to my lands and it was the most common religion, so the strategy became getting everyone to like me, which was easy with the eventual +4 shared civics bonus. Harder though, was getting the AP religion spread to the last few AIs.

    Everything seemed to keep slipping away by a thread. Elizabeth turned on Theocracy and Isabella closed borders, so I ended up gifting them both junk cities with Judaism to make sure there would be a AP Victory vote. My opponent Monte had a big enough population to fend off the victory vote he first time.

    Then other AIs came along and captured the gifted cities from Elibaveth and Isabella, keeping the victory vote from happening. To make matters worse, each of those AIs was someone's worse enemy so I ended up getting lots of "traded with worst enemy" penalties.

    Finally, there was an AP vote to declare on Isabella and I was hoping she would just get completely wiped out, but as usual she Vassaled to someone else. While a missionary was marching over, William declared war on me with a ton of mounted units. Around 1350, unable to stem the tide with all my units far off near Isabella's borders, I decided to call it quits.
     
  15. Jouzou

    Jouzou Chieftain

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    It's been a long time since I played one of these. I really wanted to participate, but unfortunately I didn't have time to finish the game properly. Real life gets in the way of video games. I subbed an incomplete game (according to the auto-message, the submisson was actually late, so don't know if gets accepted - not that it matters either way).

    Anyway, what a rough start; no copper or horses, lots of jungle and a non-coastal start with Portugal. Yikes! I managed to secure 8 cities and remain peaceful. Monty served as a nice buffer between me and other civs and the jungle served as a buffer between me and him. By the time we shared borders he had already picked other targets. Plus, we shared a religion.

    Happiness was never an issue, thanks to the numerous calendar resources. Some cities started hitting the health cap before the happy cap. Doesn't happen too often in my games before factories (and with an expansive leader, no less). The only WW I built was the Mausoleum (with marble that Louis was kind enough to trade). I made an effort towards Taj as well, but lost that one (wasn't able to re-negotiate the marble deal). Oh, and I lost Lib by like 5 turns. That was a real bummer.

    The extended golden ages gave me some real momentum, though. I was just about to tech rifling and rain death upon the AI. Definitely gotta finish this game afterwards.
     
  16. Yamps

    Yamps Chieftain

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    Sadly, I didn't have the time to finish this. :(

    I took the challenger save and settled on the coast. Got the GLH and later on vassaled Willem and eliminated Monty with medieval units. I left it around 1500 AD with 20+ cities and plans to settle the new world. The plan would be to build up some espionage buildings and finish off with diplo. Maybe some other time. ;)
     
  17. Jastrow

    Jastrow Chieftain

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    I also had no time to finish.... Would have been a looooong diplomation, likely 1950 or so.... at turn 300, I was about 5% short on population (with me and my 3 war + 1 peace vassels...) Would have needed to take out the only non-nulear power left in the game, which was HC. His population would have been easily enough, but he had no mainland cities left, so I would have had to build in invasion fleet, and it would have taken another 30 to 40 turns to capture enough islands. No one was that close to space (nor culture), so given a LOT more real life time, I could have won around turn 340... As it was, I did not even have time to submit (was litterally in an airplane when the deadline came around.)
     
  18. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    Oh yeah... I'll try to get the results up in the next 24h. I'm pretty sure if you submitted a winning game you're getting an award.:D
     
  19. Solyaris

    Solyaris Chieftain

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    Was in a winning position at 20 cities and only one to have MT, but sadly didnt have enought time to finish this because of work. Nice game thought!
     
  20. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

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    It seems that not having enough time to finish, which I posit was from the rather large land area, is a common theme. In the interest of having more people finish games it would probably be a good idea to keep things a little smaller, particularly on the harder levels.
     

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