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[BTS] BOTM119: Final Spoiler (Game Over)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by kcd_swede, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    BOTM 119 - Gilgascrooge (Gilgamesh) with Humbaba - Final Spoiler




    So how did your game after 1AD go?
    Did Humbaba survive? (Did you???) :lol:



    Reading Requirements

    Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 119 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
    • You have submitted your entry

    Posting Restrictions
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
    [/img]
     
  2. High King J.J.

    High King J.J. Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Dor-lómin
    Around 400AD 2 civs did a surprise attack/military alliance against me. With 2 Humbabas and more troops against me it was just another too :evil: map by the :evil::borg::viking: mapmaker. I think I really should stop even downloading Botms. If it's not an insane difficulty then it's something else guaranteed to cripple a player who doesn't like early wars or having half the planet declaring war with their armies already approaching, without a single warning sign. I'm too :old:for this.

    "From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.
    'Old fool!' he said, 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!"
     
    kcd_swede likes this.
  3. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    Sorry about your troubles. Immortal level is really tough.
     
  4. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
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    5,075
    Location:
    London, UK
    I don’t often play immortal level – usually I consider it far too hard to be worth it. But the unusual theme of this game intrigued me enough. And hey - Space win, 1854 AD. :dance:

    ad1854.jpg

    1AD saw me with 6 cities, including the Indian capital, and dogpiling with Mongolia against Rome. The next 1500 years or so was almost a continual line of wars that eventually saw me with almost the entire starting continent. India was finished off by Arabia soon after 1AD. Mongolia and Greece both made the mistake of declaring war on me later in the game. Greece didn’t come out alive and Mongol only survived as my vassal. :D. China, Rome and Japan were reduced to the southern Ice and Tundra, while Arabia was banished to the northern tundra Islands. Of the AI, only Peter of Russia had his original territory largely intact – and he was the only AI that I never went to war with.

    As far as I’m aware, none of the AI Humbabas made it to the end of the game. I took out the Indian one in the BC years, and the Roman one with artillery sometime around 1500AD. I’m guessing the others all got killed in various AI-on-AI wars. My Humbaba served with distinction – even on the very turn of my victory, he was busy helping capture a barb city in South America! He had 183 XP, and thanks to CR3 and drill 4 promotions, in the later game his attack odds where invariably 100%, even against riflemen!

    The interminable AD wars were quite a slog, but not without some very tense moments.

    Towards the end of the mace/treb era, I decided to help myself to some more Roman territory. Caesar subsequently vassaled himself to China, so I found myself in an unexpected war up North. Still, China had some very tasty wonders, so figured I may as well put some effort into taking them. So I captured the first city. Then an Apostolic Palace vote came up. End the war against China. I suspected that vote was very likely to pass, so I immediately sued for peace – just so that China would give me some techs: I’d get nothing if the Apostolic Palace forced peace.

    What I hadn’t considered was precisely where my units would teleport to when peace broke out. Yep, you guessed. Almost my entire army, including Humbaba. Straight into the newly captured Chinese city. Completely surrounded by Chinese culture with no way to get out. And the next turn, Tokugawa declared war. As if that wasn’t enough, the apostolic palace vote came in. Resolution rejected. I hadn’t needed to make peace with China at all!

    So, with almost my whole army trapped, Tokugawa had free rein in the West. And he had zillions of troops (although luckily, it seemed, no Humbaba). My first city fell. And the second. If it wasn’t for the AI tendency to settle too many units in its captured cities for too long, I’d probably have lost another two cities before I was able to build enough defenders.

    Finally my 10 turn peace treaty with China expired and I could free my troops – even though it would mean declaring an unwanted war just so my troops could escape. Oh hang on – China is willing to sign open borders. Of course, he’s still pleased with me because the earlier war wasn’t me declaring on him. Oh why oh why didn’t I think of checking that earlier? :confused:

    Still, now Humbaba is free, and the tables are turned on the Japanese. I get my cities back and lots more besides … until Tokugawa vassals himself to a very powerful Alexander, who can also boast Saladin as vassal.

    It’s a disaster again. Suddenly, I’m fighting on about 5 different fronts :eek:. As I try to finish off Toku, Greek cuirassiers are raging all around the battlefield – and my cannon and macemen cannot defend against them. Yes, I have Humbaba, but he can’t be everywhere at once, and besides I can’t afford to leave in the open anyway. To the North, Saladin starts marching. To the East Saladin has a large stack in the final city he took off India. And – worse – in the South, a huge stack of maces and trebs lead by the Arabian Humbaba appears out of the snowy tundra. God knows what they were doing there. I have no choice but to abandon a city uncomfortably close to the capital to that stack.

    The only saving grace is that I’m just a few turns away from artillery. Once that’s in… I will build nothing but artillery everywhere … And that’s when the tide slowly turned - including sacrificing a couple of artillery to get rid of the Arabian Humbaba. And now Greece could pay for declaring war on me…

    The only complication was that, once I took the last Greek city (sometime around 1750AD I think), Tokugawa – still alive, thanks to having tundra cities that I had no interest in taking - promptly vassaled himself to China instead, and I had yet another war on my hands.

    But it ended well in the end. I’m sure that with better management I could have achieved a lot better than 1854AD space, but hey it’s immortal and a win is a win.

    Thanks for the game, kcd_swede. It was definitely a very intriguing scenario. I might have to nick your idea of starting with democracy for another GOTM soon…
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    kcd_swede likes this.
  5. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    Congrats on the victory! Great fun reading your spoilers. I am happy to hear that something other than an early aggression pays off. That's what Christmas spirt is for. ;)
     
  6. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Chieftain

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    I like Christmas spirts too. :smoke:
     
  7. bcool

    bcool Chieftain

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    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Fun game, but there was a lot of luck on my part in the early game as I played way too aggressively in the beginning and got away with it. I stole a worker without even speculating that the AI had their own Humbabas. I stole the worker and fled before the AI reacted with their own Humbaba and was able to quickly get a cease fire. Emboldened by my success I stole another worker but this time the AI attacked with its Humbaba and I killed it, but it could have easily gone the other way. Although even with 15% strength Humbaba you might have been able to fend off an archer.

    I settled on the plains hill with the wheat and 2 corn, with plans to move my capital to a more commerce rich location later on. I purchased a worker and a settler. With the AI with their own Humbabas I wasn't confident of a plan of early conquest fueled by gold rushed units. It seemed so risky to lose your Humbaba early on, but I guess there were ways to minimize the risks (racking up xp on barbarian units and taking drill promotions). I ended up instead rapidly accelerating my early expansion with my early 2nd city and stolen workers. Secured the gold/pigs floodplains site and the nice coastal sites.

    I built the pyramids and then I killed the AI that had lost its Humbaba to me early on. I was pretty cautious attacking the other AI, the next AI I attacked lost their Humbaba to another AI, so they were easy pickings as well. The only time I faced an enemy Humbaba was when I declared on China (a weak AI without a Humbaba) and they called in an ally (Asoka) to go to war against me. It definitely added a lot of suspense since I had no idea what the AI would do with its Humbaba. Would it attack my weakly defended cities while my Humbaba was trapped in enemy lands? At the time I had only emergency muskets to defend my lands the rest of my units were committed to war in far away lands. The AI sadly didn't attack my cities with its Humbaba. I was able to rush my Humbaba back and threathen its cities so it recalled its Humbaba and stack of catapults, spearman and Humbaba to defend its own lands. Asoka threw its stack against my stack with my Drill IV Humbaba defending. It lost its Humbaba and maybe 10 more units attacking my Humbaba. It was scary but my Humbaba emerged undamaged and the rest of my stack reduced to 50% health due to the numerous catapult attacks.

    Never really took advantage of the early emancipation civic option. I'm too addicted to whipping through the early expansion and wars. I did do a 5 turn dip into Emancipation during a golden age and I built the Statue of Liberty later than I should have. I waited for the AI to tech Metal Casting and then they never were willing to trade it so I eventually stole it. But that took way too long and delayed the forge and thus the statue of liberty until very late 1000AD maybe?
     
  8. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    I often find it is better to be lucky than good. But did you win bcool? How? When? Enquiring minds want to know! But that was a great spoiler anyhow... anytime Humbaba gets the spolight, I am happy.;)
     
  9. bcool

    bcool Chieftain

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    Space Race victory 1575AD, advanced start helped, earlier Statue of Liberty helped, Humbaba helped, the AI didn't really help with any tech trading to speak of however.
     
  10. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

    Joined:
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    1340 conquest. I can claim credit for killing the Indian, Mongolian, and Japanese Humbabas, but the others were conveniently lost to inter-AI fights. Asoka was wiped out but I vassalized all the others in the order of Rome, China, Russia, Mongolia, Arabia, Greece, and Japan (who was pretty big with 11 cities). Toku thoughtfully parked his Humby and a big stack of units in a border city he'd captured from Alexander, which made it easy to attack, although I still assembled a large stack of cuirs and cavs to be sure of wiping it out on the first round. With city raider 3, my Humbaba had at least 96% odds against the others (as long as I was attacking a city, of course). Hunting helpless barbs early in the game to get those 10 XPs, and only attacking AIs when I could get first shot on their Humbies (or when they'd already lost it) might strike some as cowardly but I can live with that. ;) Sal and Alex settled a couple ice/tundra cities on islands up north but nobody managed to settled the other main continent. My memory ain't what it used to be but I think this is the only game I've played with a Humbaba (??). Fun. :D
     
  11. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    13,320
    Buy a Settler. send that Settler close to an AI, settle a City, rush-buy Warriors, and earn an early AI capital. So was the plan and that's where my Gold went. Haha, I'll bet that you can guess how shocked I was to see the AI with a Humbaba. I was not entirely surprised to see what I saw--I did say in the Pre-game thread that I didn't want to see the Barbs with a Humbaba, while the concept of AIs having Humbabas went unspoken--but I was still caught off guard.

    I stubbornly refused to settle by Copper and kept trying to take Asoka's Copper, and I also was too stubborn to tech Archery, so I tanked my economy for a long time with masses of Warriors.

    Warring didn't go very well--I'd win a City and then lose it when I moved on to another City, at one point having to take a Peace Treaty with Julius by giving him back one of his Cities, only to find Humbaba and my "army" of 12 Warriors trapped by Peaks and his Cultural Borders from 2 Cities for another 10+ turns, only being able to get out of that mess by going to war with Julius again from an awkward position.

    Getting up to Pottery was tough, but the lagging economy gave me the excuse to switch into Emancipation, to help with growing the first few Cottages that saw my way out of the economic hole.

    Barbs were annoying until I got a clever idea--settle a blocking City and gift it to the AI who had built The Great Wall. After that point, the Barbs were funnelled into a single attack vector that was a lot easier to manage.

    I eventually just settled a Tundra Copper City and then realised how much I love Vultures, making a ton of them and delaying when Macemen would obsolete them for as long as I could.

    My warring was still pathetically slow, being technologically behind and with having to lose a lot of time weaving and ducking back and forth to entrap AI Humbabas, but I eventually got enough of an advantage to start capturing Cities with Wonders in them: The Pyramids, Stonehenge, and The Great Lighthouse all helped out considerably.

    However, I had whipped my Cities quite hard (yes, my time in Emancipation didn't last long) and I gaped in awe at BornInCantaloup's pics in the First Spoiler thread--my Cities were tiny in terms of City Size, in comparison.


    Multiple times, the AIs bribed each other into attacking me, with Humbabas making for tense situations. When I finally eliminated Toku's Humbaba, the last of the AI Humbabas, and whom had been escorting a stack of 30+ other Military Units, while I had some Cannons to support my own Humbaba, "easy mode" was activated and it felt like a good time to end things.

    So, I buttered-up Genghis and cruised my way to a non-Vassal-assisted Religious Victory. I had self-built The Apostolic Palace, and I didn't "cheese win," since I actually had to go up against another candidate, and I had used strategic spreading of the Apostolic Palace's Religion, and had planned out AI-AI wars to reduce the chances of AIs spreading the Apostolic Palace Religion to each other. Thus, you could say that I'd been tentatively planning for such a Victory Condition for quite some time, and when an AI's World Map revealed that there was at least one other Continent, making Domination become a chore for only the most determined, a Religious Victory became a very suitable way to book it out of there, which I won with 500 votes to my name.

    Thanks for yet another fun and challenging game!
     
  12. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup A Shadow for the Warrior

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    Location:
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    1555 AD space victory.
    Did I make it in time ? I think I did, I'm not sure. 3 am European time... Registry form says 16th of december.
    Similar feeling & action on my part. Thanks, kcd, for a nice map.
    It was very thought provoking to be propelled into the "late game" from so early on (Emancipation).

    I spent most of the game in Emancipation. Did a final, very late switch into Caste System after building the Cristo Redentor.
    Some things I did wrong :
    - didn't take out Peter after killing India and China and, partially as a result, never got anywhere close to the Domination land limit ; never really could 1-turn techs either ;
    - missed on the 6th Golden Age until after the Spaceship was launched, never really used any other city than my National Epic city for gpp production.

    Some things I did right :
    - switch into Hindu and spread the religion, anticipating for Saladin / Genghis to build the AP in that religion ;
    - early REx to 2000 BC ;
    - settle all of the New World for myself and ship, ship settlers/workers. Because I wanted to ; capturing mature cities would be more "efficient".

    Some timelines :
    325 AD : Oxford built, slider up, 1000 bpt break
    425 AD : China dead
    620 AD : world war against Saladin (Hindu shrine) and he capitulates to Genghis ; world's at war with Mongolia, now
    680 AD : Liberalism --> Communism slingshot. Astronomy done, start expanding to the New World (why I didn't kill Peter)
    900 AD : 2000 bpt break
    1070 AD : 3000 bpt break
    1140 AD : 4000 bpt break
    1410 AD : Appolo done

    Advanced tech path went :
    Biology --> Levees --> Iron Works --> Electricity --> Research Institutes --> Factories --> 3 Gorges Dam --> +3 health tech --> Appolo

    Some nice screenshots :
    Spoiler :
    The fall of Beijing, one of the bestest prizes in the game :
    Spoiler :

    Apostolic Palace control ; Genghis signs his death warrant ; Humbaba at the gates of the Hindu shrine :
    Spoiler :

    Commulib ; first settler landed East :
    Spoiler :

    So many things are wrong with this pic, this is my favourite :
    Spoiler :

    Poor Peter's lands. We never went to war with each other, eh ? Apostolic Palace flipped 2 of his cities. Combination of Free Speech + Sistine Chapel goes a long way in terms of cultural pressure :
    Spoiler :


    Some stats : Hindu Missionary is the most built unit followed by the settler...
    Went very heavy on infrastructure, even overboard...
    Cottaged the Old World from 4000 BC (Pottery first tech)...
    Watermilled/workshopped the New World...
    Spoiler :
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
  13. Rusten

    Rusten Chieftain

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    I really wanted to play this one but I couldn't find the time -- only got to around 2000 BC. Really cool scenario. Thumbs up to kcd_swede. :)
     
  14. Minou

    Minou Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
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    180
    Reading other reports, I think I lucked out with opposing Humbabas. I did pay very careful attention to spying on them, but in the end I only ever had to actually fight one. As far as I recall, here are their fates:

    Russia: mysteriously disappeared (moved into the fog right before I declared and never saw it again), I still can't figure out where it went but maybe Russia was fighting another AI and I somehow missed the announcement.
    Rome: destroyed by a Vulture suicide / Humbaba strike / Vulture finisher on the opening turn of my attack.
    India: destroyed in war against India.
    China: mysteriously disappeared, it is possible it was killed by India but given the way the battle was unfolding it would have had to have horrible luck and die against something like a small stack of Axemen.
    Japan: presumably destroyed in war with Greece.
    Arabia: survived to end of game but I never warred with Arabia.
    Greece: not sure if it survived / died but I never warred with Greece.

    After getting off to a great start, things slowed down a bit during my war against Mongolia. After beating back their invading force, I conquered one city but ran out of steam right outside the capital. After losing a bunch of units in ~75% attack attempts, I had the capital down to 3-4 guarding units and a Humbaba, Woodsman III Vulture, and Chariot parked outside. Each turn I would plow through 1 or 2 units depending if I needed to heal, but they kept being replaced just slightly faster than I could mow them down. Eventually with war weariness building I signed peace. Like many others, I regretted this when Humbaba got teleported to a patch of icy land fully surrounded by Mongolian culture and I had to wait 10 turns to be able to declare war again just to get him back.

    It took me a while to build up enough Knights to properly finish off Mongolia, after which I pushed into Japan. The highlight of the Japanese war was when I rolled Humbaba, a Rifleman, and about a dozen Knights up to the city where the main Japanese stack was stationed. They threw everything at me in a counter and Humbaba was injured to the point that other units started defending and dying. In the end, Humbaba survived and 21 Japanese units were destroyed (17 by Humbaba himself). That was the only moment of real danger in the game.

    Having built a few of those +8 / +50% spy buildings that come with Democracy (forgot the name), I did way more tech stealing than usual. I ended up stealing Construction, Drama, Literature, Philosophy, Compass, Engineering, Optics, Divine Right, and Astronomy with no failures. After Astronomy, the AIs had fallen so far behind that there were no more opportunities for thievery.

    From this point, I had almost no real life time to play so I shifted to peaceful teching. Two Galleons made it to the second continent and I founded / conquered a handful of cities there but did not see too much gain since there were no needed resources there except Spice (I think). Fur and Ivory were already close to obsolete by this time. I'm wondering if founding a Colony on the new continent would have made sense? I have a pretty poor grasp of colony mechanics but this seemed like an ideal case for creating one.

    My only regret is that I did not have enough real life free time to fully play out the late game. I ended up rushing everything from 1500 onwards and just stayed with State Property because there was not enough time to mess around with Corporations. Earlier I had actually founded Mining Inc and settled three very bad ice cities just to capture mining resources, so it was a bit of a drag to have to skip out on realizing the gain. I finished less than 2 hours before the game was due. Given a couple extra days I would have liked to spend more time optimizing GP, expansion and construction but I'm happy I managed to at least win the game before the deadline.

    Anyway, this was a GREAT concept for a game. I haven't sweated out the early turns of a game this much in ages: it was intense playing a game of high stakes Humbaba poker with the AIs throughout the BC years.
     
  15. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup A Shadow for the Warrior

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    Same here, I almost backtracked into a UN win. I concluded the space race but paid minimal attention to details in the last 3 days before the deadline. I rather focused on clicking fast.

    Still, it didn't waste the fun for me. Optimizing an end game is a good exercise but the early game is always the best part, as far as I'm concerned.
     

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