[BTS] BOTM119: First Spoiler to 1AD

[kcd_swede]

BOTM 119 - Gilgascrooge with Humbaba - First Spoiler to 1 AD

Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD!
How did you spend your cash... or did you hoard it?

Were you pre-game settling plans working out as you hoped?



Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 119, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
• Please do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD. (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
  
• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games

 

[LowtherCastle]

My Humbugger got wasted by Caeser. Gameover.

 

[kcd_swede]

You cannot fail until you stop trying-

 

[MarleysGh0st]

I think, "what if I try an early attack against Caesar with Humbaba and one warrior?" Well, what if he has three archers his own monster?

I tried razing his farms and getting a quick peace or ceasefire, but he'll have none of it. Then he attacks my stack that has taken a defensive position in the woods, and wins. No more Humbaba!

I played on for a while longer, but Caesar still won't make peace, all the AI are growing faster than me, and the barbs are swarming in from the south. It's time to end this experiment at Immortal level and I retire in 1320 BC.

Maybe I'll try another game for fun, but I think the advantage I was given wasn't nearly enough for me at this level.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I settled on the plains hill 2W, and used the starting gold to buy two workers. I had hoped to buy an instant settler too, but it turned out 500 gold wasn’t enough to pay for two workers AND a settler, so I settled for using the rest of the gold to pay for quite a few turns of 100% research. I also went into emancipation straight away.

On balance I suspect the plains hill was a mistake – since if I’m buying the first worker anyway, it loses its main advantage of the quicker start.

Humbaba explored while the capital pumped out a few settlers. It was so tempting to try and steal AI workers, but I resisted – not knowing what gifts swede had given the AI and not wishing to lose Humbaba to some modern armour or something within the first 10 turns! The mystery was revealed fairly soon when I spotted RussoHumbaba – which presumably meant all the AIs had one.

Since happy resources were in short supply, I Oracle’d code of laws – sometime around 1500AD, in a coastal city to the East. And I pondered the fundamental problem: How do you go to war and gain an advantage when your biggest weapon (Humbaba) is so powerful that you can’t risk losing it? It’s like a Civ version of cold-war mutally-assured-destruction. Except I had a strong suspicion the AIs were probably not going to play by the rules the way leaders like Carter and Brezhnev did.

Genghis Khan provided the first break, when he suddenly declared war on the Romans. Yes! Dogpile! Unfortunately, before I had time to act, Asoka declared war too. On me. There was an Indian city right next to my northern border, in which were stationed the Indian Humbaba along with what was clearly a growing invasion army of axes and swords. Worse, Saladin was in ‘enough on our hands’ mode and I could see his Humbaba with a stack in a city just off my Western borders.

What to do? I decided the best thing was to hope that Indo-Humbaba would remain in the border city and see if I could sneak my Humbaba round with a force to take India’s capital – which should end the war. But it was not to be. Before I had assembled a big enough force, the Indian stack moved. Humbaba plus 4-5 axes and swords headed for my 2nd city, just East of the starting area. More I rapidly filled the city with every melee unit I could find in the hope it would somehow hold out, while keeping my Humbaba just out of range for safety.

The AI did exactly what I would have done – attacked the city with his Humbaba and then, on the back of the collateral damage, his swordsmen were able to destroy several of my defenders. But – wait! his Humbaba sustained damage in the attack… Down from 26 strength to 21. It meant my Humbaba now had a 94% chance of attacking and surviving. It was surely the best chance I was going to get, and I took it. Failure here and it’d be effectively game over. But it worked. Some swordsmen to finish the job off, and India now had no Humbaba!

After that it was obviously a fairly easy task to raze the city on my borders and then take Delhi, leaving India with just one city to the NorthEast. I was tempted to press on, but I was worried: Saladin was still in ‘enough on our hands’ mode and the Indian war meant my forces were a long way from where Saladin would attack. Besides, Mongolia and Rome were still locked in battle on my Western borders, and my exploration of Roman territory revealed no sign of a Roman Humbaba anywhere. Presumably, destroyed by the Mongol one. The chance to capture some Roman cities cheap seemed too good to pass up. So, reluctantly, I allowed Asoka to live.

I figured the best thing was to attack the Roman city closest to the Arabian forces. That way, if the worst happened on the Arabian border, Humbaba wouldn’t be too far away…

This didn’t go to plan either, mainly because it turned out that Caesar might not have a Humbaba any more, but he did had millions of troops. Praetorians. Everywhere. And as soon as I declared war, they seemed to be everywhere in my territory! So much for a cheap city capture.

And then Saladin moved. His Humbaba. Into my territory. Without. Declaring. War. Uh???? Oh. It looks like India is his target. Phew! Lucky I did let Asoka live!

So that’s me at 1AD (map is from 150 BC, just before the Roman war). Humbaba is rushing around frantically trying to remove Praetorians from where they shouldn’t be. I have 6 cities, which is not exactly brilliant at 0AD. I’m sure Rusten or someone will be along soon to tell of his 20 cities at 1AD But hey, it’s immortal level and I’m still alive! 150BC stats were 47 pop in the 6 cities, and sustainable 148bpt @60% science (thanks, 4000BC emancipation!). Civil service is in, and 2 turns from machinery.

 

[nocho]

Surely an unusual twist having a Humbaba and being faced with them! I didn't dare to declare on anyone early on for fear of a bad roll and then be rolled over by the opposing Humbabas, so started out cautiously.

I settled 1N for more river tiles and settled on T1 as I figured revolting to emancipation anyway. I bought a worker on T2 and then a settler which settled near the rice more north on T7. From there tried to expand as quickly as possible but decent city sites ran out with 7 cities settled. Didn't figure the ice and tundras down south, although later I settled a city there for the marble.

With the Humbaba situation wasn't sure what to do. At least my own Humbaba was used initially for zone defense against barbs from the south and got a useful 10XP from that for 3 extra promos. I gave it morale, leadership and barrage. Luckily a good opportunity arrose when Rome and the Mongols started fighting. I checked Rome's turf carefully and noticed the Roman Humbaba was gone, so happily declared then. That gave me 3 good cities, Rome among them, when I settled for peace and left Rome with 2 tundra cities I wasn't too interested in.

Meanwhile India and China were quite busy building wonders, while Russia shot ahead in tech. Really wanted to attack but still didn't dare, although by now Humbaba had 2 more promos so likely mine must've been quite superior anyway. I any case, all of a sudden intel told me the Russian Humbaba somehow had disappeared. It was parked for ages in a border city next to me, but left without a trace. Hence, new DoW. At 1AD that just netted a city, with 4 more size 10 cities for the taking in the next turns.

So all in all it turned out quite okay. I'm at 12 cities for 84 pop, but only 10 workers. Peter was quite useful for tech trading, together with Asoka, so tech wise I'm quite happy to have music, MC, philosophy, feudalism and paper in the bag, researching education. 302 bpt -114 gpt @100%

The game will obviously revolve around pealing off the Humbabas. As a fun side challenge I hope to gain as many promos as possible for mine! I think I'll head for space.

 

[Gosha190]

Hi, guys! Wonderfull setup, kcd_swede!

nocho, at early dates Humbaba has no troubles in both cases: while defending vs another Humbaba (can get maximum damage 80% approximately) and while attacking weak units at 100% odds to win. Humbaba can catch troubles when it lost some health and defends vs big number of weak units. So we should cover Humbaba by own stack of units on the same tile which will fight while Humbaba is healling. And we should promote our' Humbaba properly using barbs.

* WS

My strategy based on the map setup: Humbaba + close agressive AI. Hence, WAR-WAR-WAR. I'll be glad to see peacfull diplo win.

Settled 1E2N to catch more river tiles. 2-d city - sheep+ horse+ weat. 3-d city - 5 tiles noth to DC capital. Emansipation Rev whle settler was moving. 1-st production - worker, speedup him by gold. Then warrior-warrior-settler-worker-settler + worker in my 2-d city. 70% of my money used to speedup productions.

Research path: AH-pott-writing-alpa in 2040BC - math 4 turns later. Then research slider set to zero. Exchanged Mine-BW-IW.... then until late BC years I played with negative GPT.

Early war with chariots. Later added vultures. 1st victim JC. JC killed his Humbaba attacking my Humbaba when my charriots stole his workes. Next victim was Peter. What a crasy AI! It has only 2 archers in his capital!!! After i DOW to him, he atacked my 3-d hill city and his Humbaba got damaged, my Humbaba decreased its health to minitum and rest defenders made his job. Now Peter has 1 city near Saladin lands. Next - Aoka. I love this guy! He DOW to GK and his Humbaba went to GK lands. Asoka captured 1 GK city (Antium on DC screen), lost there his stack ant stay there with alone Humbaba. After I DOW to him, he attacked my nearest city without any sucsess - Humbaba is unable to cupture anything! So I cuptured 3 his cities easy and made peace with him. Now he defend my west boarders. Where QSH lost his Humbaba i dont know - maybe to barbs? He was next - nothing to say - easy money as he had no Humbaba.

No oracler (built by Alex in 850bc), pyrs cuptured with Asoka's capital. No reseach. GPT is low. No GP was borne. 14 cities. 3 cities razed. 18 workers. A lot of troops. Asoka, Peter, QSH have 1 city each. JC killed by GK. Have no idea what to do further. Kill them all?

Where is my fur and ivory? I need more happines resources. Sliver not connected still.

 

[kcd_swede]

Hi Gosha190, glad to see you back. Although I feel sorry for the folks who tried a "typical/normal" strategy in this game, I am very happy to see that the thoughtful and/or cautious players discovered ways to thrive with what they were given. I suggest HR if you are having happy troubles... but you are one of the many who need no help from a duffer like me. Charge on!

 

[Minou]

Very fun map idea! I love unusual starting conditions, which make the game feel new again.

Settled 1NE, picking up 3 more riverside tiles in exchange for taking Rice instead of the second Corn. The first order of business was to see what gifts the AI had been given. Humbaba scouted west and quickly met a few AIs. A glance at the Demographics screen revealed they also had some type of powerful unit, though being untrained in the art of interpreting demo numbers it took me a while until a hilltop scout confirmed they were also armed with Mobile Artillery.

I'm also not great at predicting AI behavior, so I was not sure if stealing a Worker would lead to the AI gunning for my capital or hunkering down. Not wanting to accidentally lose the game right off the bat, I choose to play it cautiously. I used the gold to buy 2 early Workers after investing 1 turn in each, and after growing to 2 used the rest of the gold to rush a Settler. The land was obviously getting claimed quickly and I only settled 4 of my own cities the whole game.

First tech was Pottery, followed by Mining, BW, AH. My Humbaba explored the map fighting Wolves, but had to be upgraded with Mobility and speedily recalled at 3 moves per turn to fend off some barbarians.

I carefully monitored the Russian Humbaba and launched a blitz to capture their Gold / FP city and capital when it wandered west out of my field of vision. Both cities fell the next turn thanks to my own Humbaba being able to move 3 spaces and thus hit each before the Vultures attacked. To my surprise, the Russian Humbaba never returned during the war (though the power graph suggested it was still alive), allowing me to easily plow through the Russian army. I captured a third city and signed peace in exchange for IW in 1400. My suspicion is that the Russian Humbaba became trapped behind other AI cultural borders, which if true would be a huge lucky break for me.

The next war was with Rome. In this case I sacrificed 4 Vultures to damage the Roman Humbaba in order to weaken it, then hit it with my own Humbaba and finished it off with 2 more Vultures. The rest of the mop-up was easy. Oracle was still around and I grabbed it at 875BC for Currency.

The third war was a backstab against India after they declared on China and left their guard down along the southern border. The Indian Humbaba was sitting in the capital most of the game until driving north into China. With the Humbaba away, India's Archers and Axes were wiped out easily. I captured all four Indian cities an never saw the Indian Humbaba, so I suppose it must have died attacking China.

Since my troops were already on the Chinese border, I pressed onwards. The Chinese Humbaba seemed to have simply vanished. I was tracking it with a Warrior and Workboat before declaring war, and it was still alive when the Indian-China war ended. Yet, it never appeared in my own war against China, even when I had them down to one city. This was very puzzling and I can't imagine any explanation other than some type of horribly unlucky Barbarian attack on Galley with Humbaba inside.

The China war almost backfired on me because Mongolia and Russia invaded from the west while my army was far north. I lost one city which was 2 turns from finishing MoM. It hurt losing all those invested hammers, though I was able to eventually reclaim the city and build MoM elsewhere. Humbaba having the Morale promotion really saved me in this one, as he was able to race across the map and turn the tide. Neither Russia nor Mongolia brought Humbabas to the fight, so presumably they died somewhere else. I would have been toast if they had artillery supporting their stacks. After clearing out the invaders, went on the offensive. This war has been suboptimal in that it stymied research/growth quite a bit, but it was not my choice!

At 1AD, am very happy to have 16 cities with 114 pop. I've got 27 techs (working on Paper now) and 12 Wonders (4 more in progress). Overexpansion has killed research for the moment (304pbt at 100%, but I can only run 10% at the moment). I should be able to capture the Mongol capital in 2 turns and then hope to get Compass and CoL in the peace negotiations, re-gain my trade routes, and shift gears to peaceful growth for a while. I hope to go for Space if time permits. Humbaba is up to 46 kills!

 

[kcd_swede]

Keep feeding Humbaba--- he has an insatiable appetite!

 

[Xcalibrator]

I settled in place and saw in the Demographics/Power screen that kcd had given something "special" to all the AI so held back on attacking until I could get the jump on their Humbabas. I, like most, bought a couple workers and probably a settler but revolted into Slavery after awhile. My Humbaba went hunting barbs down south to build up XPs for City Raider3. Genghis attacked Asoka shortly before I did, and I caught the Indian MA in a city near the border and took two of his four cities before giving him peace. Genghis took one of his cities and parked his Humbaba in it, conveniently almost surrounded by Russian culture. Once my units were healed and shifted over I attacked GK through Russia--strike out one more Humbaba. Then I finished off Asoka by taking Delhi. Russia and Rome have been fighting and I think Julius may have lost his Humbaba. At 1 AD I have 680 score (1st), 12 cities, and 56 pop. I plan to stick with the conservative approach, only attacking when I can jump on the enemy MA. Slow and steady should give a win, though not very fast.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Things escalated quickly but that makes for a very enjoyable game
Things also went very well, in the sense that the RNG never played me terrible jokes.

As a minor aside, I think the AIs could have benefited from a little more land to work with. Maybe because of Cold climate or because there are so many of them.

Reading on the other write-ups, I think it was key to find ways around the other Humbabas.
Bribing AIs on AIs seems like the safest way to kill Humbabas.
Given the initial access to rushbuying, Emancipation & 500 gold, that places some huge value on an Alphabet beeline.
I used Drill II on the defence for my single Humbaba kill but I don't think that should be recommended.

Also important, given the settings, was a good REx. Hoarding the 500g would simply make the stash useless for too long. Unused money that you cannot use has close to no value.

1 AD status in spoilers :

Spoiler :

diplo :

Spoiler :

Mainland :

Spoiler :

Rome (nice spot) :

Spoiler :

Russia (well done, Toku, that's nice ; gimme, gimme if you're a real friend) :

Spoiler :

China (lost your Humbaba against India, eh ? well, you don't need it anymore) :

Spoiler :

Stats :

Spoiler :

Mostly some early game action in spoilers :

Spoiler :

First thing, I checked the costs for rushbuying : it's 3g for 1h and that's quite expensive. Roughly, it means we can rush 1 worker and 1 settler, and that's what I did. Later on, I would also rushbuy a few items 1 turn from completion to get overflow hammers into the next build.
Second thing, I adopted Emancipation and researched Pottery first. Having the ability to rushbuy makes it very fine to delay BW. On the opposite, you want to raise your commerce output to fight off maintenance.

So... I SIPed. Bought a worker, bought a settler, started on another worker.
City 2 went north by the rice along the river and started growing.

I risked Humbaba against Asoka, stealing a worker. I felt lucky when he would take peace a handful of turns later.
I reiterated the operation some time after that. It seemed that nobody would like Asoka and the game wouldn't punish me for doing so, if he would take peace again, which he did.
On top of the 2 extra workers, this had some added benefits :
- most AIs ended up DoWing Asoka, which made me safe and helped build up diplo points ;
- I could expand and secure strong city sites north and west.

City 4 was settled in 2560 BC

Spoiler :

City 3 was that long shot grab to the west. I was a few turns late and Peter blocked the location 1N with St Petersburg. Too bad, nevermind.
Julius being so close is worrying but he doesn't have metal : he won't DoW for now.

Alphabet came in on 2280 BC and I bribed Peter on Asoka. 2 turns later, Peter would bribe Qin on Asoka.
2200 BC, I finally revolted into Slavery to start working on the infrastructure.
By 2000 BC, I had 6 cities. With the Stonehenge not even built, I proceeded to advance towards the Oracle techs :

Spoiler :

Julius still doesn't have any metal.
Kish is doing fine for now but it will lose its second ring to St Petersburg as soon as they pop borders. I won't be able to reclaim those tiles, despite investing heavily in cultural buildings over there.

With Uruk hiring scientists for an academy, I had my production city, Lagash, work on the Oracle.
Meanwhile, I set research to Code of Laws because... you never know : trade for Maths, Oracle CS ?
That didn't pan out but I did end up Oracling Philosophy, in 1400 BC, for an instant +2 holy cities :

Spoiler :

Unfortunately, my gold city didn't become one of the holies. This is where I hoped to get that frantic +5 culture boost.

Very shortly after, Julius would finally DoW. This was expected. I wasn't overly prepared but Humbaba was in the vicinity and could be promoted to Drill II for extra chances on the defence. This worked out nicely :

Spoiler :

"Julius, I may not have an army, yet, but you're as good as dead, man."
This defence was tense

So, the war dragged on for a while but it went my way in the end :

Spoiler :

Cumae would be the last city capture on this front. I'll then extort Construction for peace and send my troops towards Asoka (whom I DoWed already for diplo).
I had bribed Alexander against Julius and he would later deliver the finishing blow : the Roman Empire disappears.


So, about 900 BC switch into Hereditary Rule + Pacifism.
675 BC Civil Service but Indian borders not safe (can't revolt),
575 BC switch into Bureaucracy and, with little need for production, Emancipation.
250 BC India dead, army stays idle for a few turns, while I figure out what to do with the diplo.
175 BC Qin builds the MoM in Beijing.
1 AD Humbaba's at the gates of Beijing, also the host of the GLH.
With Education done already (1 bulb), I'm probably going for Printing Press first and then maybe Astronomy.

Missed on most of the wonders that interested me after the successful Oracle. Namely Hanging Gardens to Mongolia and MoM to China.

I'd like to have the army going China -> Russia and then stop the military conquest, having a nice, coherent chunk of land and the ability to claim more in the new world.