BOTM98 - Justinian - Final Spoiler (game over)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by Deckhand, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    BOTM 98: Justinian - Final Spoiler



    Reading Requirements

    Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 98 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
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    So how did your game after 1AD go? Tell everyone about your amazing victory (or your embarrassing defeat)!

    Was quick speed a problem?
    Did you manage to win?
    I hope so: Noble level, jungle cleared from player area to facilitate REXing with Imperialism, added hills to starting area, took away all horses, copper, iron and ivory; except for player. No financial or industrious civs. All AIs Protective to make them harder to rush (and slower to tech).
    Was it too easy? Did any civs pop copper or iron?

    Did you have fun? [Some people like challenges, I like crushing my AI opponents]

    Posting Restrictions
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
     
  2. whb

    whb King

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    So, I was much more careful about when to take Liberalism. As soon as another team started researching it, I switched to it and beat them to it, taking Fusion as my free tech :)

    It was fun in terms of being a quick care-free game. I don't think I optimised my progress much though, so I expect my "win" to rank fairly low.
     
  3. Alamankarazieff

    Alamankarazieff Warlord

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    I expanded nicely, there was so much food !!!
    I played it a bit risky in terms of number of soldiers, and a DOW could have been trouble, but everything went smoothly. Their tech rate was so slow that I haven't been able to trade at all...
    This massive plains and rivers made me want to go for a cottage/waterwheel madness with universal suffrage, state property and levee for humongous cities with great production.
    Combined with the quick speed, it made a space race the better option : fighting in the jungle on quick seemed a real bad idea. I ended up spending my ship in 1929, probably because I spent too much time having a lot of awesome cities instead of focusing and specializing.
    It was a nice, fun and relaxed game.
    Though, I concur that quick speed was not a very pleasant factor, and I hope it's not a regular feature.
     
  4. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    Did a rather poorly executed space race, in a single playing session. It was ages ago that I did space race, so I was not very efficient. Played all peaceful except for a short war at the end to capture Aluminum from Mao.

    I had huge health problems the entire game, I even ran Environmentalism! I think I finished with Universal Suffrage+Emancipation+Free Speech+Environmentalism+Free Religion, as a real hippie.

    I was not very interested in conquest/domination on a jungle map, but that meant that the game was not very exciting.
     
  5. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    These are the missing resources per the new improved GOTM_Helper created by DynamicSpirit:
    Spoiler :
    Spoiler :
    That's 4 health resources (Clam, Crab, Sheep, and Wine that the map didn't generate. I deleted all Copper and Ivory :evil:
    Whales (and Ivory) are missing Happy resources.
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I was one of the crazy fools who decided to go on the warpath. Pretty much had conquest in mind from the start.. Guess I'm on that kick for some reason. Although this is a fantastic map and setup for space race, and I imagine many went that route. Growth, cottages galore, or you could even go for a later hammer type economy. If I'm not mistaken, rainforest is generally considered the ideal space map, but it requires a lot of work.

    The remoteness of AIs, the fact that they were protective, and trudging through jungle were obviously the main obstacles. I knew this would not be a fast conquest despite how backwards the AIs were. I'm sure I'll be beat, if the super aces went conquest, but would be amazed with BC wins or even very early AD. Just way to much land to cover, even with roads..and I pretty much had roads built to most AIs by the time I attacked, except Sal, who I attacked first.

    I don't know, i might could have started with chariots, at least for one AI, as they seemed to have a lot of warriors at first, but decided to play it safe with HRs.

    Pretty much went straight to HBR after worker techs, then Alpha. I was able to pick up a few old techs before the AIs just went nerfsville. Well, somehow Church got Philo fairly early in this game, but despite that was still quite backwards until I vassaled him. (he capped after taking just a couple of small cities..maybe 3.

    First attack was Sal. I had a lot of bad luck early against those damn archers, but brought sufficient troops. I ended up just keeping Mecca as Sal settled 2 craptastic cities that I razed, and at this point I did not have currency yet so keeping crap cities wasn't prudent. (otherwise, economy wasn't that bad really even without trade routes for quite a long time..despite running 0% research for much of the game, I finished Nationalism at the end) Ofc, tech was not much of a concern. Only thing I really needed was HBR and currency. AIs didn't even get Monarchy.

    Next was Charlie. I amassed troops in culture near gold city W of Nople while having built a road to Chuck's borders. He still had a couple of layers of jungle but I built a road to a tile that would let me jump to a tile first turn that would create of fork on two of his nearest cities. Took 2 cities next turn and then take a ceasefire to heal. Took Aachen, again ceasefire, and took his last two cites NW and SE of Aachen. Buh-bye HRE.

    during this time, I was building a road up to Gilgs. At first was concerned about the swath of jungle up to Japan. I did start building a road up there to the NE, but soon realize that he had expanded in a westerly direction toward Gilgs so that army would be able to move into position fairly easy for that attack.

    Church was adjacent to Charlie's land so I attacked him soon after. Pretty decent luck with him and swept 2 or 3 cities and then capped him. One nice city I kept had a shrine and good food, but revolt risk. I kept some units there while simply building more and whipping it, keeping it small. It never revolted.

    I attacked Gilgs like 3 or 4 times. First time was to kill some settlers and roaming archers, but didn't have much troops around there. Took a ceasefire while army over in England moved up through English land to attack from the W side, while I had some troops moving N. Gilgs fight was a bit brutal. Creative and Protective gives some tough defenses and he had tons of archers, but a combination of moving through his land, forking and ceasefires helped. Lost a lot of horses against him and taking one of his cities at a certain point was dicey but the rolls went my way. I could have capped him, but wanted his cities and stonehenge.

    Attacked Toku and Mao last. Took a while to get an Army to Mao but he only had 2 cities the whole game. ha..he actually was sending out an settler when I attacked but moved it back. He went down very easy and actually built cats after I dow'd which was lovely. His total troops were like 3 archers, 2 warriors, and 2 cats...plus neither city was on a hill.

    Toku was a bit tough. Kyoto and another city was on a hill, and of course they all had walls. However, by this time I just had tons of HAs up there so I took a few cities and Kyoto and capped him while Mao fell on the same turn.

    Actually a fun game, although as discussed, the quick speed is annoying. Conquest on this map though is certainly a chore...ha

    oh..had no intent of really building in wonders but ended up building a few as at a certain point I had so much production in other cities. For some reason the AIs were not buidling GW, even on this level it can sometimes go rather early. So I built it in Nople. Later built Mids and ToA there just for kicks. And Pizza in Mecca since it was so far away and at some point I got stone from somewhere..I think it was in HRE land somewhere. I forget who built Oracle. Maybe that was how Church got Philo so early.

    Don't know what to make of the score in this game. Seemed kinda low relatively but I guess there are different factors/modifiers at this speed. Not sure....although I guess I really did not have that many cities actually.

    I only built 3 quick cities initially before buidling troops..settled one more right at the end...so 4 settlers in all, i.e., 5 core cities
     
  7. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    That's interesting. I too when playing, had a perception of massive health problems caused by few health resources on the map, but that list seems to suggest there wasn't actually much missing. The seafood - obviously, because this was a land map, and sheep. I think the problem was that there were a few other health resources where there was only one occurrence - quite a long way from our starting area, requiring conquering a far-away AI to get them.

    I guess you weren't too evil because it seems like we had the only iron and horses, so - so far as I can tell - none of the AI could build good military units (although by the time I'd discovered that, I already had cannon and cataphracts, so it wouldn't have made much difference for me).
     
  8. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Haven't played the game, and obviously can't now, having stumbled into this thread, but just wanted to point out a little error in the OP. You have written "BOTM 96" instead of 98 ;)
     
  9. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    So, my result...

    Game status: Spaceship Victory for Byzantium
    Game date: 1856AD
    Turns played: 198
    Base score: 6069
    Final score: 62937


    The first spoiler saw me with 8 cities and a crashing economy. It turned out that by building cottages and prioritizing code of laws and currency without founding any more cities, I was able to recover quite quickly. I then expanded to about 15 cities before realizing, slightly belatedly, that Tokugawa occupied the silver/deer site to the North, and I was desparately short of health and could do with more happiness.

    Coincidentally I'd also just built my first knight and discovered somewhat to my surprise that it had strength 12, not 10. Really must pay attention to what unique unit I'm going to have before starting the game... Thus it was war. Toku at some point became a vassal of the Blue Civ, and in turn they apparently bribed Churchill and the orange Civ into declaring on me (You can tell I was really paying attention to which civ was what, can't you...). Of course, on Quick speed, wars tend to go very slowly, and this one lasted right until almost the end of the game, by which time Toku was free, Orange was no more, and Blue and Churchill were my vassals. I would have ended it a lot sooner to focus on space, but for the realization that Churchill had almost the only aluminium on the map, as well as the only wheat. Sadly, the Quick speed was a bit of a killer here - I finally captured the aluminium the turn before I was about to complete the Apollo Programme anyway- about 1800AD as I recall.

    Since I progressed rapidly from cataphracts to tanks, and noone else had worse then longbows/trebuchets, and a few muskets right at the end, it was ... well let's just say, I've had tougher wars to fight before now.

    The land was amazing for a cottage economy - I just basically built cottages everywhere and by the midgame the map was full of towns, and I was roughly researching a new tech every turn. But I made the mistake of not arranging some production cities, which meant (alongside the lack of Aluminium), the Apollo Programme took ages to build. As a result, somewhat amusingly, the turn I built it, I already had all the technologies to build just about the entire spaceship, so there was a slightly surreal few moments of going through my core cities, assigning a different spaceship part to each one! After that, it was just waiting to win. I'm pretty sure I could've won a fair bit quicker if I'd (a) not crashed my economy in the BC years, and (b) made a few production cities with workshops to build key things quicker - y'know, just a few minor frills like Apollo, Three Gorges Dam, one or two spaceship parts - nothing crucial ;)

    Thanks for the game, Deckhand. An interesting and unusual map. As soon as the results are out and the WorldBuilder is available, I'm going to be very tempted to try replaying it from the WorldBuilder on normal speed, to see what difference it makes.
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Don't be afraid to bulldoze those cottages for workshops and watermills once teching is fairly secure, DS. You can prebuild them in advance and then *poof* tons of production
     
  11. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    If there is one thing I wish for a new BUG or BUFFY (sorry for a late request), it would be an option, similar to with forests, for workers to essentially need a confirmation before destroying an improvement. But then I don't think that feature works if you have several workers in a forest, so maybe it wouldn't for improvements either, and on slow settings you're likely to pack workers.

    Sorry for this little offtopic post, but it has crossed my mind so many times, so I wanted to mention it.

    Maybe one day I'll try a BOTM game instead of the usual HoF headaches. Maybe it's a good mix between a competitive game and fun gameplay, without necessarily knowing in advance what victory condition you are going for, and what date you need to beat :scan:
     
  12. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    And I missed the Hanging Gardens :cry:
     
  13. Falabello

    Falabello Prince

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    There's no other way! Noble Conquest is an all or nothing game... I thought my date was good, but then read the final spoiler and :cry:... :lol:...

    Because of all those forests (and the fact I didn't scout till 1AD), I thought that a Chariot or Horse Archer war was a bad idea, but there's always a player that thinks different :hmm:...

    So, I did the Cataphract way and discovered that the AI's didn't have metals... :p. But was too late. Cataphracts are very powerfull, even against Longbows. In my game I vassalized everyone.

    The wars were quick, all of them against Archers... Only the last AI (Churchill) had Axes and Spears (but 2 of them) and appears Longbows (also 2 of them), even no force to stop my Cataphracts :trouble:...

    @Lymond
    You are one that I couldn't imagine that did an early horse war... What was your Conquest date...?

    If I have fun??? yes, it was an easy and quick fun game :w00t:!!!
     
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    :lol: Really? HAs are my favorite!

    My date is not much better. You did well in your game. The main issue with conquest here is the speed. Troops have to move a long way and it seems centuries pass quickly in the process. Plus, I always failed on the side of having enough troops to attack in most cases, as protective archers and walls mean a lot of bad luck and dead horses. I always prepared for each war in such a way to ensure success, but it meant a lot of time going by. Braver and luckier players who attempted this may certainly get better dates, but I don't expect it was easy.

    Another thing is that on quick speed, AIs replace their units so fast..every turn..even without whipping in many cases...so you gotta win the battle the first shot.

    Chariots may have been one way if gaining some faster early success...not sure. Thing is you would really need a lot of them, or catch the AIs with pants down with only warriors. The slow movement though tended to prevent that, unless you got lucky.

    Anyway, good job!
     
  15. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Seems I hadn't reported back the results on this one yet, got to space in 1760AD.

    Indeed too tempted by the map not to go to space. Communist paradise! Grew to 43 cities, killing off HRE and China and vassaling English and Arabia, the latter peace vassaled.

    Timed the end game a bit better than usual, at least to my standards. Finished all 16 space parts within 4 turns of each other. Pulled 5000 bpt at the end which I guess is reasonable without corps.

    Must say I enjoyed quick speed better than expected. :)
     
  16. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Blasphemy! ...I say..Blasphemy! :lol:

    I'd say the difficulty probably had something to do with it. Quick is a bit more comfortable the lower the level, although 200 protective archers in 1 turn is a bit annoying..ha

    Nice game, Nocho. I was tempted to go space. Would have loved to have seen all those juicy workshops all over the map.
     
  17. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Haha, didn't quite mean to say either that I loved it so please don't stone me to death over this one just yet... But I guess quick makes it easier to get to a tech per turn in the end, so it did make me feel a bit less incompetent. The Devil's temptations I guess. :mischief:
     
  18. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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  19. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Monty Python :king:

    Pfah! By the time people have picked up stones, you are sitting inside a Tank :D
     
  20. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    +1 :goodjob:
     

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