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Bow to the pRNGods, foolish mortal!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by tjs282, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    I've started this thread, primarily for my own (but hopefully also for others') education/amusement, to document my first solo attempts at Emperor, with the intention of progressing beyond that if I think I can do it. To be able to win consistently at higher difficulty levels, I believe I need to become a little(/lot) more flexible in my gameplay choices/ aims. So in this game-series, I will allow the pRNG to pick my Civ and most of the starting conditions, in order to force myself (and any other Emp/DG hopefuls who want to join in) to think a little more deeply about formulating a long-term strategy based on the assigned Civ's strengths and the start I'm given.

    Spoiler :
    I bought Civ3 (Vanilla 1.07, later patched to v1.29) in 2009. I only upgraded to Civ3 Complete in early 2014. In my previous Monarch-level, mostly-Vanilla games, I have tended to be a builder, usually playing long, high-tech games and aiming in a vague sense for any win at all (but Space-race for preference). My win record has mostly not been great: I launch first in maybe 30-40% of games started, with the remainder being a fairly even mixture of Diplo/ Histo wins, Space/ Diplo/ Histo losses, or game-abandonments when I started getting steamrollered, usually in the late Middle Age/early Industrial. But finally having become reasonably proficient at Vanilla-Monarch last year, and having toyed a little with Regent-Conquests, I was looking to improve further/ faster. So when Acronym invited me to join an SG he started as his first Emperor game, also aiming for a Space-race winabout 6 months ago, I thought 'Why the hell not?'

    And it worked: although after playing the first 20T, Acronym didn't really have the time to participate any further, I am very grateful to him for the invitation, because I learned a shedload from the other members of the team (Lanzelot, Choxorn, MrRandomGuy, CommandoBob, and recently Elephantium). (I pretty much singlehandedly turned that SG into a full-on TDG! :blush: ) I owe them big kudos for their collective patience with my apparently-boundless ignorance, interminable questions, downright rambling, not to mention a few cockups committed during my turnsets. But despite my best efforts :p, as of this post, we are now into the Modern Age and expect to launch within the next 30-50T, with our nearest in-game rivals (the Mongols and Indians) trailing far behind us...

    One of the main lessons that the Emp SG finally banged home was the importance of setting an overall goal for a game at an early stage, and planning/ executing the first 100T or so in fairly exhaustive detail in preparation for that goal -- a major weakness of mine (in life, as in art). Needing to write a detailed turnlog for my team-mates also forced me to concentrate much more on turn-by-turn (micro)management, with which at Monarch-level I have thus far been (mostly able to be) lazy. My general lack of progress prior to the above EmpSG was probably also at least partly the result of the 'reactive' seat-of-the-pants way in which I tend(ed) to play, and due to trying to apply the same end-goal (Spaceward Ho!) and 'strategies' (build everything everywhere, try not to get killed!) to the multiple different starting conditions that Civ3 offers.

    Tech. specs.:
    My games will be set up with the following parameters:
    • Map-size: Small (5 AI opponents)
    This will apply to every game in this series (less to build/manage = shorter turn-times, especially in the late game -- if I get that far!)
    • Landform: Continents
    • Water area: 60%
    • Temp.: Normal
    • Humidity: Normal
    • Age: 4 bn years
    I chose Continents to allow me some degree of goal flexibility, without crippling the AI on an Arch-map. As I get better/ braver, I may try playing a few Pangaea maps (i.e. near-obligatory/ continual warmongering!). The 60%-water setting is to compensate somewhat for the Small map-size, since up until now I've almost always played on Standard maps -- in later games I may allow the pRNG to choose this and the other terraform-options as well.
    • My Civ: Random
    • Opponents: Random
    • Barbs: Random (NoAIPatrol=0)
    • VCs enabled:
      • Conquest, Domination, City Culture, Civ Culture, Diplo, Space, Histo
    • Misc.:
      • AI Respawn ON, Preserve Random Seed ON, Culture-linked starts OFF, Culture-flips ON, SGLs ON
    • AI aggression: Normal
    • Difficulty: Emp --> DG --> Deity(?)
    My criteria for increasing the difficulty will be 3 wins in a row -- any VC will be considered sufficient, even it wasn't what I was originally aiming for, and even if it's *gulp* Histo.... This may still prove tricky -- hence the thread title -- I'm not expecting to beat Deity-level anytime soon! ;) And since this is intended to be a learning experience, I will take the first start I am given, every game -- I will not re-roll to get a 'good' start position or favoured Civ. I will play ~100T -- if the AI lets me! -- and then decide (perhaps after consultation) whether I want to continue. If (When!?) I lose or decide to abandon a game, I will start a new game from scratch. For each game in this series, I will (try to) post:
    • A start-position screenshot
    • The 4000BC savegame -- so anyone who's interested can download it
    • A pre-play assessment, giving at least a rough idea of what VC I'm going to aim for (Space! No, wait...)
    • A relatively detailed turnlog for at least the first 100T
      • Likely in blocks of 2*20T, then 6*10T
      • Hidden, so as not to spoil anyone else's attempts
      • Including a dotmap for at least the 1st-ring cities
    • Requests for feedback on the game so far, if I feel my position is marginal at the 100T-mark
    If I decide to continue from the 100T mark, I will post:
    • 'Overview' turnlogs in ~20-40T blocks
    • The penultimate savegame prior to a win (or loss/ decison to abandon)
    • Invitations for 'post mortem' feedback on lost/ abandoned games
    If I reach an impasse, I will post:
    • Requests for assistance/ advice, including the most recent savegame
    What I hope to do here is to create something like an SG- or a GotM-thread, both for myself and for anyone who is interested in following along with these games, or having a go at them themselves. Ideally, I hope that it won't just be me who learns something...

    House Roolz for this thread
    What I am interested in doing :thumbsup:
    • Learning from my mistakes, particularly in unsucccessful games, via solicited feedback from any habitually successful DG/ Deity/ Sid-level players who might wish to subscribe/ lurk
    • Discussing my choices, or how I achieved something, with interested Regent/ Monarch/ Emp players (if it's not clear from the turnlog)
    What I am not interested in doing :whipped:
    • Competing with anyone, achieving HoF-worthy scores and/or super-early win dates: that's what GotMs are for
    • Writing full-on fictionalised versions of each game (at least for now)
      • I've started the thread here in the Stories&Tales section because that seems like the best place for it, but if a Mod wants to move it, please go ahead
    • Receiving unsolicited and unhelpful comments of the form 'No, don't do that, do X' -- without a decent explanation (i.e. in terms of game-mechanics) of why X would be the better course given my starting conditions and/or stated goal(s)
      • To put it another way: 'decent' =/= '...because [Commenter] would rather (watch me) play a Dom/ Conquest game than a Space-race (or vice versa)'
    • Seeing posts containing unhidden maps/ turnlogs, etc. from someone who's DL'd one of my 4000BC savegames and completed it before I do.
      • If anyone wants to play one of my savegames, or start an SG with it, or even base a GOTM on it :hmm:, feel free -- that's why I'm going to upload them
      • Just please allow me the option of not having my game spoiled by e.g. showing me the map in this thread, before I got round to exploring it myself
      • Related: while I am still playing this series and uploading saves etc. into this thread, please don't post additional 4000BC Emp/DG savegames here without invitation. If anyone else decides they'd like to try something like this themselves before I've abandoned this thread (hereby unilaterally defined as not posting in it for at least 6 months!), I would ask them to please start a new thread
    • Entertaining trolls. CFC's generally pretty good in that regard, and I would like it to stay that way. As such, posts which I consider to be abusive/ pointless will be reported
  2. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

    Jun 15, 2008
    on a learning curve
    even though i basically agree with everything you wish for in your "not interested"-section, i find it formulated way too harsh when you are asking for advice for your game at the same time.
  3. Toxicman007

    Toxicman007 Custom User Title

    Sep 28, 2009
    Subscribing as a successful Deity-level player. Always good to see new threads in the civ3 S&T!
  4. Arexander

    Arexander Trucker

    May 14, 2009
    Subscribing as a casual comp-stomper Chieftain. I'm afraid my contributions won't be much if at all but I hope I might grab some tips from here. I've never really played competitively, just trying to have some casual fun, which is why I've never really felt the need to up the diff anywhere above Regent.
  5. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    Thanks for the feedback. Sorry if I sounded harsh. My intention was only to express my wish to have the opportunity to play the games (and cock things up!) in my own way, rather than someone else's. I've edited my first post a little to clarify and add emphasis to the important words (unsolicited, unhidden), while removing the (I guess slightly accusatory-sounding) use of 'you'. Hope that's better?

    @Toxicman and Arexander:
    Welcome. Glad to have you both along -- that spread of player comfort-levels/experience is exactly the kind of thing I'm hoping to attract to this thread.

    I actually started my first Emp game already -- I got the Dutch. I'll try and post the starting details and first turnlog later this evening...
  6. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    Yea, and the mighty pRNGods decreed that I should play... The Dutch. And they looked upon their works, and saw that it was good.

    Wouldn't you know it? The first Civ I roll is one that wasn't in Vanilla, that I've never played, nor even seen as an AICiv in my few C3C games so far, and that has the 2 new Conquests traits, only one of which (Sea) I've used -- once (as the English, at Regent). So this should be ... instructive. Or short. One of those...

    Agri = +1FPT in city, +1FPT in iDesert, cheap 'Duct, RecPlant, SolPlant
    Sea = +1MP for ships, +1trade in coastal cities, cheap Harbour (also CoastFort, CommDocks, OffshRig?)
    Starting techs: Pottery + Alphabet
    UU: the Swiss Mercenary (Feudalism, Iron, A.D.M = 1.4.1, cost = 30s), a beefed-up Pikeman which 'upgrades' to from a Musketeer (Gunpowder, Saltpeter, A.D.M = 2.4.1, cost = 60s). That upgrade-path makes NO sense from a gameplay perspective, but is indeed how it works...

    • Agri: HangGard, Pyramids, Hoover, USuff, CfC
    • Sea: Colossus, Mausoleum, GLight, Magellan, Smiths
    • Both: Internet
    So... what are the Dutch good for? Agri = fast city growth and/or Worker-/ Settler-spam, Sea = faster marine exploration/ earlier overseas trading/ expansion/ more effective navies. The major advantage is the Agri-growth -- by building lots of small (coastal!) cities, I should then be able to spam out lots of cheap mil-units, which could make up for the Dutch weaknesses (no production and minimal commercial advantages, few useful cheap buildings, Mid-Age UU, tulips). So, if need be, I could/should be able to swamp my closest opponents with Settlers and Warriors/Spears.

    Possible vic?
    With no cheap Culture buildings and only few commercial advantages, building enough Culture or doing fast enough mid- to late- game Research will be difficult, making a Culture or Science VC a long shot -- but that only leaves Dom/Conq, at least to start with.

    Golden Age:
    No single GW -- other than TheInternet -- can trigger a Dutch GA, and the Dutch get no production advantages, so acquiring 2 or more GWs for an early GA may be tricky. Like the Greek Hoplite, the SwissMerc is really only likely to start a GA if defending -- but if the Mercs can be kept away from any hostiles until the GA is desired, they can be used to trigger it right when the expensive Mid-Age buildings ('Ducts, Markets, Unis, Banks) need to be built...

    (Hmmm... Do Spears upgrade to SwissMercs? If not, I should be able to build both, keeping Spears on the borders, and bringing the Mercs to the fight when I want my GA)

    • Pottery means I can get Settler- and Worker-pumps up and running fast, if I can find good sites for them. CxC- to CxxC-ing my coasts for the extra commerce may be sensible, especially given that this is a Small map...
    • Alphabet gets me 1 step towards the Writing -> CoL -> Philo/ Republic-sling (and coastal commerce can boost research, at least in the early game when techs are cheaper). If I can get to Rep first (should be do-able at Emp) , I should be able to trade it to all my (overseas) contacts, starting with the richest...
    • Philo allows building the Mausoleum, if I miss Colossus. MoM is cheap (200s) and would be useful in a big city if I'm short of Luxes...
    • Writing is also a pre-req for Maps, which would allow me to upgrade Curraghs (2+1MP) to Galleys for increased range (3+1MP) -- and Maps is also needed for the GLight (300s = 15T@20SPT, 20T@15 SPT, 30T@10SPT), which would push those Galleys to 3+1+1MP, and let me go more safely over sea squares. Colossus would be good, but GLight might actually be better for me, at least for the vital first third to half the game. By the time I reach Magnetism, the game will likely be clearly won or lost...
    • If I have to defend my cities from my neighbours and/or need to war, I will need at least Bronze, WarCode, and/or Wheel-->HbR. Iron will likely(!) also be important
    Therefore, my objectives for the very early stage will be: scout my neighbourhood (as for just about every game) for decent city-sites (and Luxes!) and explore my coastlines (Seafaring Curraghs move 3x faster than Warriors). Then, once I have a rough idea of how big/populated my continent might be, I can decide whether I'll need to rampage or not. If so, I will probably be aiming to push all my neighbours into the sea and fully colonise my continent, which should then allow me laugh in the face of chance, and finalise my choice of VC to aim for.

    And off we go... Here's the starting position... looks pretty good (I also like that the Dutch have been coloured orange):

    ...and the savegame is below...

    Attached Files:

  7. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

    Feb 28, 2006

    Don't worry, it wasn't single-handed, pretty much all of us but Lanzelot were responsible for that- I think I was the only other one besides him that had semi-regularly played on Emperor before joining that SG, and I certainly wasn't that good at Emperor.

    Generally good advice! I will say that even at Emperor, you can still make it up as you go along to some extent and not decide exactly what victory condition you're going for right from the start (unless it's Culture, that requires planning from the beginning)- You can easily shift plans between Domination/Conquest and Space Ship, and Diplo a bit less easily. That being said, planning it one turn at a time, or even 10 at a time, will get you crushed, badly. You need to have some concrete plans for the immediate future (Build a Wonder, work towards switching governments, get x amount of Workers/Settlers/Other Units) and some more general plans for the less immediate future (Get Resources, Get more stuff, prepare for the inevitable wars the AI's get you into or that you start), even if you don't need to plan how you want to win right from the start.

    • I generally don't like Respawning AI's, but that's just me.

      Good luck, I will be lurking, maybe even play one of these that looks interesting enough...
  8. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    I started the game on Wednesday (5th November -- no Guy Fawkes' Night in Germany!), and actually played the first 10T before I wrote the 'Dutch info' post above. The Turn1 log is the longest, so I've Spoiler'd it separately -- it includes my first mistake(?) of the game, and subsequent thoughts
    Spoiler :
    Turn1, 4000 BC:

    Move Worker to irrigate nearest Flood
    Found 001Amsterdam where the Settler stands
    Fog lifts, showing that A'dam is on a convex coast, with no room for a decent 1st ring, and should also ideally be 1 tile further NE. Poop
    There is a good potential Settler-pump/new capital site (Floods and Hills) visible upstream. Double poop.

    First lesson -- should have explored a little more first?

    Short-term plans:
    A'dam must be regarded as temporary -- need to plan on abandoning it and jumping capital inland
    THEREFORE it should be kept small (max. Pop4) and build cheap units not infrastructure: Build Warrior for exploration, 1 Settler for NewCap, then MM for 4FPT, 4-5SPT for 2-3T Workers, 2-3T Warriors (for MP) and 3-4T Curraghs
    Use first Settler from A'dam to set up pump/cap upstream using iFloods, mGrass, mDesert, and mHills
    Set Prof F6 towards Republic-sling at max. Sci%, then trade for all techs and revolt -- may need to use Monarchy rather than Republic initially, for MP...

    NewCap might not need a Gran for fast growth/ Settler-pumping -- but will need Luxes, Lux% and MP (in Despot)
    Given position on minimap, send 2-3 new Settlers north and west first (NB settle on convex coast tiles wherever possible!), 3rd or 4th Settler will eventually replace A'dam (when ready, rush Workers and Worker-abandon at Pop1)
    If BrW or Maps is acquired sufficiently early (via trade?), consider (pre)building Colossus or GLight in high-shield coastal city.
    NB as well as free-tech for firsties, Philo = Mausoleum
    Aim for tech-lead by end of AA using Sea-movement advantage to make early contacts and tech-trades

    Aim for Space or Diplo vic? Depends on map...

    Turns 12-50 were played 'yesterday' (started Friday, played into the wee hours of Saturday morning). Here are the first 40T or so of the game, in two blocks. I have made several more mistakes -- mainly forgetting to shift the Lux% 1T before city-growth in Pop1 towns with no garrisoned MilPol. I have wasted a few turns with cities burning because they grew, and then rioted next IBT due to the unhappy new citizen. This is one of the major differences between Monarch and Emp, and it is still catching me out.
    Spoiler :
    Turns 2-5, 3950-3800 BC:
    Worker finishes irrigation, starts Road
    Warrior built and sent to Hill NW

    Turn 6, 3750 BC
    Warrior spots Oasis
    Settler begun, for pump (and new capital?)

    Amsterdam --> Pop2, riots! I'm stupid! Forgot to shift Lux% prior to growth!
    Lux% to 20% -- temporarily

    Turn 7, 3700 BC
    Worker starts mining Grass across river from A'dam -- need shields

    Turns 8-11 3650-3450 BC
    Warrior moves south, finds village (not popped yet) and then Elephant near planned pump/cap site -- it looks better and better, and I wish I'd settled there first


    A'dam --> Pop3, Lux% to 30%, Writing in 27T, Growth in 5T, Settler in 6T with +2s overrun -- should mean I get the Settler built as A'dam grows to Pop4...?

    Turns 12-14, 3600-3350 BC
    Warrior moves S to Elephant-Hill, then W towards another one

    Turn 15, 3250 BC
    Worker finishes mine, starts road - maybe should have built the road first, and then mined the coastalBGrass...? Ah well, I'll know next game...
    Warrior moves to northern of 2 Hills, spots incense W of that village he saw earlier

    Turn 16, 3200 BC
    Warrior moves S, spots a wheat

    Turn 17, 3150 BC
    Warrior moves SW, spots a western coastline due south. Looks like I'm on a big piece of land...
    A'dam will grow on IBT, making 3 SPT right now, needs 4s to build Settler. Hope the Gov doesn't stuff this up...

    It worked! Sweet! A'dam --> Settler --> Pop2 --> Warrior ( 5T), growth in 5T
    Lux% --> 10%, Writing in 15T

    Turn 18, 3100 BC
    Settler sent towrds Pump/NewCap site
    Worker to Flood near Pump/cap

    T19, 3050 BC
    Worker begins irrigating (4T)
    Warrior sent W towards Hills, coast spotted to the NW -- peninsula or isthmus?

    T21, 2950 BC
    002 Rotterdam founded, set to build Warrior (10T)
    Warrior moves toward Hills north of isthmus -- need to start circling back now.

    During T22-40, I got some good exploration going (both of my immediate neighbourhood and the local coasts, made a preliminary dotmap for the first ring (using CivAssistII's city-planning function, and Paint.net), and made my first foreign contacts. As it turns out, I haven't stuck exactly to that dotmap, because I could spread out a little looser.
    Spoiler :
    T22, 2900 BC
    Warrior spots another deserted village north of the Hills. Will leave this one too -- for now

    A'dam --> Pop3, Warrior -> Curragh (5T), growth in 5T

    T23, 2850 BC
    Worker irrigation --> road (3T)
    Warrior pops village -- and enrages 2 Jute Warriors. Damn...
    Writing in 7T

    Warrior wins 1 fight -- other Jute Warrior moves to Hills

    T24-26, 2800-2710 BC
    Warrior moves E to Hills, sees 2 more incense to the NE, next to the one he saw earlier. Smokin'... Then N to more Hills -- and Marsh Jungle to the north.
    Hmmm... Lots of easily defended city site here, but not much freshwater so far (apart from the Amstel, and a 1-tile lake north of R'dam...)
    Worker goes to road/mine north of A'dam

    R'dam --> Pop2, riots
    A'dam --> Pop4, Curragh --> Worker (3T)
    Lux% -->20%, Writing now in 2T

    T28, 2630 BC
    Curragh sent to explore northwards

    T29, 2590 BC
    Curragh spots shallow water 4 tiles north of Amstel delta. Could be the next continent -- suicide Curragh(s) needed soon (once A'dam has dropped Pop)

    Writing -->CoL (21T)
    R'dam Warrior --> Settler (10T, growth in 5T)

    T30, 2550 BC
    Can't drop Lux% yet or A'dam will riot
    Warrior hacks into northern Jungle, Hills to the north. This will be my northen border for now. Ring-1 dotmap prepared in CAII and then Paint.NET


    A'dam Worker -->Pop3 -->Curragh
    Lux% --> 10%, CoL in 24T

    T31, 2510 BC
    Worker2 goes to road/mine BG SE of A'dam
    Curragh follows coast NW

    T32, 2470 BC
    Pink borders seen by Curragh to the N. First contact imminent with the... Inca? Hope not...

    No, it's the Arabs -- a Scout has just appeared on the Mountain near my Warrior.
    Cultural expansion may become a problem later. Their Ansar Warriors (A/D/M = 4/2/3, cost 60s) will arrive just at the right time to impale themselves on my SwissMercs' halberds... Goody...

    T33, 2430 BC
    Warrior contacts the Scout. Abu Bakr is already Annoyed at me for... some reason... I guess because we have no Embassy, and he has a large number of techs that I don't -- Bronze, Masonry, Wheel, WarCode, CB -- all 1st-tier techs, some of which I assume he got from tech-swaps with someone(s) unknown
    I am up Writing (2nd tier), but he will only give me one(!) of his techs for it and my 16g treasury. Since I haven't met anyone else yet, I don't want to spread it around just yet...
    The Arabs also have Silks, but we have no trade routes yet...

    Can still see the Mystery Continent from the Arab coast, decide to risk suiciding my Curragh in the hope that there is someone there I can trade with...

    Pliny tells me that I am dead last by size:
    1. Arabs (Rel + Exp)
    2. Koreans (Sci + Com)
    3. Byzzies (Sci + Sea)
    4. Japs (Mil + Rel)
    5. Carthage (Sea + Ind)
    6. Dutch
    Not a surprise, considering I only have 2 cities so far... but that will soon change. Sucks that there are 3 Sea civs on this map -- I was hoping to be able to monopolise that advantage. On the bright side, I'm the only Agri-civ, there's only 1 Mil-AICiv, and there are 2 potential research-assistants...

    T34, 2390 BC
    Curragh survives Ocean crossing! Yay! Begins clockwise circumnavigation of Mystery-Land

    Arab Scout heads south
    A'dam --> Pop4, Curragh --> Settler (8T, growth in 7T)

    T35, 2350 BC
    Lux% to 20% to keep A'dam and R'dam happy, CoL in 15T
    Curragh2 heads south

    T36, 2310 BC
    Worker1 finishes mine N of A'dam --> Settler now in 5T (growth in 6T) -- perfick...--> Flood due E of R'dam for irrigation/road
    Curragh2 spots more Mystery-Land to the east -- possibly/probably the same continent as Curragh1 is exploring. Will head NE and then clockwise as well

    Arab Scout reaches our border

    T37, 2270 BC
    MM R'dam for growth in 4T, Settler in 4T (also in A'dam)
    Curragh2 heads ENE

    Scout runs off again
    Curragh2 survives crossing

    T38, 2230 BC
    Bring exploring Warrior back south -- should have done that already (left it fortified on the northern Hill where I met the Scout, then forgot about it).

    T39, 2190 BC
    Looks like both Curraghs are indeed sailing round the same (large) continent


    T40, 2150 BC
    Curragh1 finds a 'fjord' -- never seen such a long narrow stretch of Coast-tiles in a Civ3 game before...

    A'dam Settler --> Settler for the Palace-jump
    R'dam--> Pop4 --> Settler --> Pop2 --> Settler (30T, growth in 4T)

    T41, 2110 BC
    Workers begin roading the Amstel's southern bank
    Settlers sent north and west
    Curragh2 is 1T from the sea lane back to Arabia
    Curragh1 meets Byzzie Spear at end of fjord

    Ooh, Theo's so pretty when She's Annoyed with me... She will-swap any 3 of her 5 techs (the same ones as the Arabs) and all her gold (all 8g) for Pots and Writing, but nothing for Pottery alone. Byzzies are Sci, so I don't want to help them to Philo/ Republic if I can avoid it... CoL is still 14T away, so maybe not quite yet...

    Can drop Lux to 10%, but I've hit my unit limit, so can't raise Sci% w/o -1GPT. This will only save 1T on CoL, so I don't do it. Yet

    EDIT: Drat -- I was kind of hoping that if the main image URL was Spoiler'd, the thumbnails wouldn't show either. If anyone knows a way to hide them as well, I would be glad to hear it. If this is not possible, then I will have to just attach the image files next time, rather than embedding them in the post-text...

    Attached Files:

  9. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

    Feb 28, 2006
    Just a thought: You might want to space your core cities out a bit more. They get the benefit of minimal corruption, so you probably want them to be able to work 12 productive tiles at some point, and maybe more than that once you hit the IA. CxC or even CxxC settling can sometimes make that difficult.

    If you want to keep the images under spoiler, try uploading them to an image-hosting site like imgur.com and then linking to the images from there- then there won't be any CFC attachments.
  10. Mike Hussey

    Mike Hussey Cricketer

    Feb 12, 2007
    I actually quite like this type of city placement if I may say so. It provides a quantitative and structured way of accommodating rings, maximising tile usage (and at the same time minimising tile waste), and lastly making it easier to plan for city placement. The other thing you can also plan for with this type of city placement is the those 'free' cultural tiles you get when you place two cities separated by one tile.

    One thing that's worth considering in my opinion is the order in which you place such cities when you are competing with AI for space. Might be worth considering the outside in style, although with that one you waste time with extra settler moves.
  11. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    I was diverted last week (but agreeably so!) with playing another round of Acronym's BuckListEmpSpace-SG, so didn't do anything with my nascent Dutch empire until the weekend -- I played about 20T on Saturday and another 20T or so today (Tuesday)

    During Turns 42-61, I founded 4 new cities, researched 3 new techs, and explored a lot more coastline -- both of my continent ('Netharaborea') and the other big one ('Japantium'). I kept riots in check this time round, but made a few movement mistakes -- one Settler overshot the target tile, and I started an irrigation where I should have started a mine. I also really need to start building more military soon, or people are going to call me Weak, and kick sand in my face...

    Spoiler :
    T42, 2070BC

    Settler sees that the Arab Scout must have popped that village near the Incense
    Decide to raise Sci% anyway -1GPT, CoL in 10T (16g in treasury), With two other Sci civs around, I want Philo ASAP...


    NumMerc(? Not sure -- it was dark blue) runs past my exploring Warrior -- and the Settler from R'dam. Uh-oh... let's see what Hannibal wants...

    T43, 2030 BC

    Curragh2 crosses back over to our side of the pond
    NumMerc has disappeared!


    Koreans contact me Cautiously (how? Ah it was a Korean Spear, not a NumMerc -- thank goodness for that..) and offer WarCode for Writing. C'mon Wang, you have 70g in your treasury, you can do better than that... Hmm... WarCode+Bronze+Wheel+60g -- that's more like it. But not during your turn...

    T44, 1990BC

    003 The Hague founded on Plains near Incense (3W from R'dam)
    Now I make the deal with Korea. Then use most of that gold (51g) to build an Embassy with the Byzzies. Theo's now got IronWorking, which no-one else has yet. Maybe she'd like Writing for it...? No? OK, then Pots for 8g...

    T45, 1950 BC

    Curragh2 reaches Baghdad
    Curragh1 contacts a Jap Warrior NW of Constantinople. Tokugawa will give me IronWorking, CB and Masonry for Writing. Well OK then... Why is he still Annoyed?

    A'dam Settler--> Pop1 --> Worker (3T)

    T46, 1910 BC

    004 Utrecht founded on Plains between lake and Wheat --> Warrior
    I have 2 Horses but no Iron visible so far

    T47, 1870

    Settler sent towards Hills SE of R'dam
    Next one will go SW to the Ivory, then due S to the Horses

    T48-50, 1830-1750 BC

    A'dam Worker --> Curragh (5T)
    General coastal exploration and road-building
    Worker chopping forest near Hague for Rax, and to make roading quicker afterwards



    Utrecht: Warrior --> Archer
    Arabs building ToA

    T51, 1725 BC

    Lux --> 20%, Sci --> 30% (CoL in 1T, +8g)


    CoL --> Philo, Sci --> 80% (14T to Philo/Rep)
    R'dam --> Pop4

    T52, 1700 BC

    005 Groningen founded --> Warrior (10T)
    Curragh1 locates Tokyo -- it has lots of Gems
    R'dam MM'd to avoid riot (more commerce = more Lux-spending), growth now in 4T, Settler in 4T


    Tokugawa is Annoyed. Just passing through...

    T53, 1675 BC

    Workers finish jobs --> more roading
    Philo now in 9T


    Byzzies start Colossus

    T54, 1650 BC

    More coastal exploration


    A'dam Curragh3 --> Worker (4T -->3T with Growth-shields)

    T55, 1625 BC

    Curragh3 goes south


    R'dam Settler --> Settler (15T, growth in 5T)
    Arabs start Pyramids

    T56, 1600 BC

    Settler goes SW to get Ivory in our borders
    Worker moves to road Incense


    A'dam --> Pop2

    T57, 1575 BC

    Curragh2 rounds northern point of Arabia, sees island(?) to the W
    A' dam MM'd to avoid shield overrun
    Curragh1 sees that Adrianople has been built under a Volcano -- hope the Byzzies aren't building Colossus there... ;)
    (No, it's in Constantinople -- which turns out to have a pretty awesome location for a Sea-Civ, at the end of another fjord)


    Theo Cautious about Curragh1
    A'dam: Worker --> Curragh

    T58, 1550 BC

    006 Eindhoven founded
    Worker moved to Grass 1S of A'dam
    Curragh2 sails due W and discovers Korea's border to the S -- our continent must be Y-shaped, with the Koreans and Arabs at the 2 northern ends, and me at the south. Question is, where are the Carthaginians...?
    Philo now in 5T

    T59, 1525 BC

    Workers roading (Incense will be connected next turn! Yay!)
    G'gen MM'd to swap shield overrun for Commerce


    Incense connected!
    G'gen Warrior --> Barracks (20T)

    T60, 1500 BC

    Lux --> 10%, Sci --> 90%, Philo in 3T
    Check Trade Options in CAII -- no-one has Philo, I have monop on CoL: Byzzies have 22g, Korea have 10g and no Masonry yet... Rep-slingshot looks good, so I sell CoL to Byzzies (for Myst + 20g -- all they had) and Masonry to Korea (10g)

    T61, 1475 BC

    Decide to make Utrecht into Settler-pump using Wheat+Oasis
    MM R'dam for one last Settler (complete on growth in 5T)
    Switch A'dam to Settler (7T, growth in 3T)


    Philo --> Republic (Yay!) --> Maps

    Turns 62-82 saw the disbandment of my original capital and a successful palace-jump (a tactic I've not used before). I finally met the Carthaginians, and pretty much completed mapping the coastlines of the two major continents. Although I have had very few barbarian-incidents this game (barb setting was random, and appears to have been very low), I did receive my first DoW, for refusing a tech-demand. I also did a bit of tech-trading, although I didn't get much out of it, because no-one had much to give.

    Spoiler :
    T62, 1450 BC

    Decide not to revolt until current MM'd builds are complete and Horses are hooked. Will start Mausoleum in R'dam, because I haven't seen any other Luxes in my territory so far.

    T63, 1425 BC

    Byzantines and Arabs have just got Maps! Dump the beakers and switch to HBR (6T), which no-one has yet, and because Lit will be 12T
    MM A'dam for completion of Settler in 3T, and R'dam to complete in 5T, so the Palace-jump happens the way I want it to


    Wang-kon Annoyed about Curragh2
    Everyone has Maps now (except Korea)

    T64, 1400 BC

    Curragh1 finds the Carthaginian borders south of Byzantium. Awesome, that means I only need to kill off the Arabs and the Koreans to own my continent (if I so choose) and I have loads of expansion room to the south and west.

    Trade CoL to the Arabs for Maps

    T65, 1375 BC

    Build Embassy in Mecca (47g). It will take them 150T to build the Pyramids, since Abu Bakr's governor isn't using any shield-tiles...

    Do some more dotmapping in CAII: 2nd ring at distance 7 or 8? Not sure -- whichever I choose, all but 1 of the visible Distance 7-8 city-sites have no access to freshwater, so would need 'Ducts to reach Pop12. Agri-civs do get those cheaper, but Distance 8 looks too far away from the capital, and may leave a lot of unused tiles until I get Sanitation (if I do). Distance 7 looks quite crowded but maybe if the cities are CxxC'd they can still get to Pop12 if I decide I want them to.

    The question is, how many non-corrupt cities do I get...? Less than 20 on a Small map, so probably would be better to CxxC the second ring (like the first), and make sure that the more marginal city-sites (e.g. Deserts, Plains) are pushed further out than the good ones (e.g. Grass, freshwater), so that the better growers are nearer the capital for rank+distance calculations.


    Curragh1 Annoys Hannibal

    T66, 1350 BC

    A'dam's Settler didn't build beacause of food excess --MM to fix that
    R'dam now has only 1T on its Settler as well. Move Hague's Warrior there (making 3), so hopefully that will be enough to ensure the Palace-jump goes where I want it to...


    A'dam Settler-abandoned
    R'dam becomes capital (phew), builds Settler --> Mausoleum (42T)

    T67, 1325 BC

    Settler moved towards Horses via G'gen
    Worker roading A'dam ruins (3T)


    Hague: Barracks --> Worker (5T)

    T68, 1300 BC

    Curragh2 has now discovered 2 sources of Iron closer to the Koreans than me
    Curragh3 sails offshore to investigate island
    007 Arnhem founded 1NE of A'dam site --> Harbour


    HBR --> Lit (14T, but not for long)

    T69, 1275 BC

    008 Maastricht founded by Horses --> Barracks (40T)
    Hague build switched to Temple as Horse prebuild


    T70-71, 1250 BC

    Curragh1 heading home for an upgrade
    Curraghs2+3 reverse course

    T72, 1200 BC

    Sci --> 100%, Lit in 10T at -2GPT -- will leave me with 6g in the treasury, but OK


    Send G'gen's Warrior to fog-bust SW of M'strict


    Japs building ToA

    T73, 1175 BC IBT:

    G'gen: Harbour --> Temple prebuild
    Byzzies building ToA
    Japs building Mausoleum
    Kyoto builds Oracle!

    T74, 1150 BC

    G'gen's harbour is costing me, means Lit will eat my remaining treasury. Sci to 90% gives Lit in 8T, so MM a few towns for a couple more CPT and less SPT -- now 7T again

    T75, 1125 BC, IBT:

    Horse-road completed
    Korean Spear appears between the Hague and Utrecht

    T76, 1100 BC

    Hague Temple prebuild switched to Horse (2T)
    Curragh1 attempts to cross the strait from Carpantium to G'gen
    Curragh3 discovers a big bay between us and Korea


    Curragh1 sinks.

    T77: 1075 BC

    Switch G'gen to building a Galley
    Curragh3 shows that our continent seems to be T-shaped, not Y-shaped -- need to expand north first, and cut off access...


    WangKon Annoyed about Curragh2
    Korean Spearman heads SE
    Hague Horese --> Horse (10T)
    Utrecht --> Pop5 --> Settler --> Pop3 --> Warrior (2T)

    T78, 1050 BC

    Utrecht's Worker sent north to coastal Grass
    Curragh3 finds Wonsan
    Lux% to 10% to prevent R'dam from rioting (Lit in 3T at -3GPT)


    Abu Bakr Cautiously demands HBR. I refuse, and he DoWs me. Oh you arse.
    Eindhoven Rax --> vHorse (10T)

    T79, 1025 BC

    Workers roading near M'stricht and Hague
    G'gen and Arnhem switched from Temples to rHorses (2-4T) and Utrecht switched to rSpear (3T)
    R'dam's MoM build now in 25T
    Sci% to 60%, Lit still in 2T at +6 GPT -- should probably have done this a couple of turns back.
    WH means I can drop the Lux again and bank some gold. I also do some trading:
    Japs buy Republic for Polytheism+50g (all their gold)
    Use most of that gold to establish an Embassy in Seoul (47g), and then ask WangKon what he wants to fight the Arabs -- Philo or Polytheism will be enough. Well OK then, Polytheism it is! That should keep those camel-jockeys busy, and also reduce their unit-numbers...
    Sell HBR to Hannibal for his treasury -- all 2g of it.
    Then go to Theo and offer her Republic for all her gold -- all 9g. Well that sucks, but at least Tokugawa can't profit off it.


    Palace expansion! I want a lawn...

    T80, 1000BC:

    Settler pulled back to Utrecht -- will be sent to last 1st-ring spot instead
    Curragh3 coming home
    Sci to 50% for Lit in 1T and +7g. I think it's time we had a revolution...


    Lit --> Maths (10T at 80% Sci, +0 GPT)
    Arnhem Horse --> Horse (8T)
    Carthage building ToA

    T81, 975 BC

    Arnhem's rHorse sent to Utrecht to repel any incoming Archers that might show up



    Curragh3 spots Arab Scout near Hague
    Utrecht: Spear --> Settler

    Attached Files:

  12. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    Well, I hit the 100+T mark a couple of days ago, and (I think) it's worth continuing.

    I (think I) have the makings of a reasonably strong 1st-ring, I have started placing my 2nd-ring towns, and my war is going in my favour so far (which is good, because I need an MGL to rush my FP!). Considering that I've done a palace-jump already, and lost 6T (and my tech-lead) during my gov-switch, production is relatively healthy -- although I do of course NEED MORE WORKERS!

    Due to not switching to Republic as early as as I might have -- and also a few other mistakes -- I am currently third-ish in research, but only behind by 1 tech (I think). The joint leaders are a Sci civ on the other continent, and one of their immediate neighbours, who are tech-swapping everytime either of them gets something new. I am finishing off the last AA tech, they have just reached the Med-Age.

    I think I'm in a good position to go for UN or Space after all -- but to do that, I will need to Dominate my continent first -- and I'll either need to do it without Iron, at least initially :eek: or kill a harmless Sci-neighbour from whom I might get a tech or two if I leave them alive. If my supremacy happens more quickly/easily than I expect it to, then maybe I'll go overseas as well...

    Here's the turnlog (T82-T106)...
    Spoiler :
    T82, 950 BC

    vHorse sent to kill Scout
    rHorse sent to scout N of Utrecht
    MM G'gen for Horse in 1T
    The Dutch are revolting -- and roll 6T of Anarchy!! Damn...


    R'dam --> Pop6
    Carthage begins Pyramids
    Scout runs for the Hills -- won't save you

    T83, 925 BC

    Horse kills Scout
    Curragh2 spots Arab Galley 2 tiles away. Might lose this one...
    Only way I can keep order in R'dam during Anarchy is to use Specialists, so I recruit 2 geeks
    Maths in 30T


    Byzzies Cautiously demand Lit. No, I don't think so... Theo folds, but now she's Annoyed -- but I can't sell it to her, cos she got nuthin'
    Galley doesn't attack -- it drops off Spear+Settler on Korean coast

    T84, 900 BC

    Curragh2 explores further south, into the fork of the Y -- looks like the Arabs can be choked off at Kufah, if sufficient forces are sent up there...


    Aden founded on Korean side of northern bay.

    T85, 875 BC

    rHorse fortifies on Mountain near the neck of our continent
    009 Haarlem founded --> Barracks (9999...T)
    Maths now in 27T -- guess the geeks are earning their keep?


    With my eighth city placed, I get the FP-message, so I guess my OCN (with FP) = 16. I need to make sure that the cities with poor growth prospects are further out (distance >8) than the potentially good ones (distance 7-8). There are lots of farm sites, but I have very little freshwater on my turf, so most of the 2nd ring won't get bigger than Pop6 without 'Ducts -- so distance 7 would be best, I think. I'm thinking to build tall in R'dam (by going for ShakesT), take the 1st ring to Pop12 (most of those towns will also need 'Ducts), but leave the rest at whatever size they can reach without 'Ducts, at least initially. I will go for mil-techs primarily, and secure my continent before starting on the other one.

    T86, 850 BC

    The Japs have Monarchy -- but I can't afford it, not even for my Lit-monopoly


    Hague --> Pop4

    T87, 825 BC

    vHorse to Utrecht
    CAII says the Arabs will talk, but I'll let the Koreans make peace first -- I'm still weak against both of them, and not going to get stronger while still in Anarchy (only 1T left, thank goodness)
    Japs sold Monarchy to Theo and Abu. I still have monop on Lit, but no-one has any cash to speak of, and Lit =/= Monarchy. So I'll just have to go Republic after all, with Lux%...


    Anarchy finishes -- Republic selected

    T88, 800 BC

    Massage all towns for efficient builds/growth
    Lux to 10% is enough to make R'dam happy
    Drop Sci to 60% -- Maths in 4T, +2GPT


    Byzzies start MoM in Constantinople
    Byzzies build Colossus in Constantinople -- weird -- why do I get the messages in that order? I have only 19T to go for MoM, so not worried
    Japs start HGard

    T89, 775 BC

    Maastricht irrigation almost complete (Eindhoven next)
    Utrecht MM'd for growth in 4T, Settler in 4T
    Arnhem MM'd for growth in 1T
    G'gen MM'd for Rax in 2T
    Haarlem MM'd for growth in 2T
    Sci to 50% for Maths in 3T, +6GPT

    T90, 750 BC

    Worker management


    Hague vHorse --> vHorse (5T)
    G'gen Rax --> vHorse (5T)
    Byzzies start HGard

    T91, 730 BC

    The Koreans and Japs just got Maths, 1T before me. Bugger. CAII says I've gathered enough beakers already, so drop Sci to 0% to get Maths in 1T (I hope), and 39g.
    I'll go Currency next, since everyone and his dog will probably go for Construction...
    Since I have seen nothing of the Arabs, I send the fortified rHorse to fogbust near Kufah



    Arnhem Spearman --> Worker (2T) If I had a Gran here, this would be a perfect Pop5 Worker-pump...
    M'stricht Spear --> Rax (20T before growth)
    Pants! Didn't get Maths!
    R'dam --> Pop7

    T92, 710 BC

    Unhappy new citizen in R'dam changed to geek for Maths in 1T and 0%SCI
    Spears fortified in place
    Worker roads to Haarlem (3T)
    Northern rHorse sees Korean Warrior+Archer approaching Kufah -- nice to know they're still doing their bit (easiest war I never fought!)

    Occurred to me earlier today that HGard might actually be a better Wonder for this game than MoM -- HG gives 3 Content in home city + 1 Content in all cities, and is Agri rather than Sea, meaning I can then get a GA with a (late) MedAge 'Sea'-GW, e.g. Magellan or Smiths. In the unlikely event that someone beats me to MoM, I could still go for SoZ as well, although it does me no good for a GA...

    Dotmap prepared for 8x 2nd-ring towns/ cities at distance 7.0 to 8.5 from R'dam (CAII says all sites 49-54% corrupt by distance -- will need CHs immediately)


    Korea loses a Warrior against Kufah
    Maths --> Currency (10T at 60%SCI, -2 GPT). Could get it in 8T at 70%, but that would mean -10GPT, and my Treasury = 131g
    Utrecht --> Pop6 --> Settler --> Pop4 --> Spear (4T, growth in 4T)

    T93, 690 BC

    Settler sent towards Spot 7.1, accompanied by Warrior
    rHorse carries on N towards Aden
    M'stricht Spear sent to G'gen
    Settler-build dropped my CPT -- Currency now in 10T at -4GPT


    Arnhem -->Pop6--> Worker --> Pop5 --> CH (16T)
    Byzzies begin GLib
    Volcano erupts near Mecca. Alla'hu'ackbar, melon-farmer...

    T94, 670 BC

    Arnhem's new Worker begins mining
    M'stricht's Worker moves to irrigate+road NE of town


    Japs begin GLib

    T95, 650 BC

    010 Holwerd founded --> CH (80T)
    Warrior fortified in town, Worker moves to road the BGrass to connect it


    Hague+G'gen (7SPT) vHorse --> Worker (2T) for shortrush to vHorse (4T)
    Japs build MoM! [pissed]

    T96, 630 BC

    Switch R'dam to building ToA for now, SoZ is also possible -- and no-one's started it yet. But I think I want the HGard. That means I have to buy Monarchy, but neither the Japs nor the Byzzies want to sell (I'm still 'at war' with the Arabs -- and the MA with the Koreans still has 3T to run...)


    Utrecht rSpear --> Settler (5T, growth in 5T)
    Byzzies building GLib -- again?

    T 97, 610 BC

    Cash-rush Workers in G'gen and Hague (2*12g) then switch to Horses (3T)
    Upgrade Curragh3 (45g) to Galley, and load Warrior(s) for hut-popping (if there are any left!) on 'Carthapantium'
    Send 3*vHorse+Spear northwards from Utrecht to attack Kufah or Aden
    I have 5 Workers for 9 cities -- need more, but I'm already well over my unit limit (allowed 11, have 21)


    Arabs now building HGard

    T98, 590 BC

    Galley sent north
    Currency now in 4T at 60%SCI and -7 GPT (Treasury = 35g). I need this monop for Monarchy/HG...


    Japs building Pyramids

    T99, 570 BC

    rHorse arrives outside Inch'on, and swaps defunct MA for RoP
    Rearrange a few citizens in various cities for Currency now in 3T at 60%SCI and -5 GPT (Treasury = 29g). I need this monop for Monarchy/HG...


    Hague Horse --> Worker (2T)
    G'gen Horse --> Lib (20T)

    T100, 550 BC

    Bloody Japs just got Currency 1T before I did! Again!!
    vHorses arrive at Kufah's border
    Curragh2 sees Arab Sword incoming from Baghdad... (can't see the Arabs Iron deposit...)
    SCI to 70% for Currency in 1T at -14GPT (Treasury can take it -- just)


    Currency --> Construction (last AA tech to advance).

    T101, 530BC

    Treasury is now at 11g, and the best SCI% I can afford is 40% for 15T and +9GPT -- the Byzzies just got Construction (and presumably sold it to the Japs, since they now have Currency as well), so I drop SCI to 0% for completion in 50T and +41GPT. Now I'll have the cash to raise an army to fight the Arabs and take their lands/ cities/ techs/ resources

    MM Utrecht to prevent riots at Pop6 (Settler in 1T)
    Raise LUX% to 20%
    rHorse finishes mapping S.Korea, and heads back towards Aden
    vHorses lie in wait in the Forest outside Kufah's borders -- that Sword should appear soon...?
    Arab rSpear heads south past themDrop off first Warrior where there used to be a village
    Send Galley+Warrior clockwise northwards
    Everyone wants around 30GPT and my entire treasury for Monarchy. Offer Maths to Hannibal (for 1g -- all he has!) so that I can sell him Currency+Lit+6GPT for Monarchy. -- at last

    Switch R'dam to HGard (16T). If anyone builds it first, I'll take SoZ instead


    Utrecht Settler --> Settler (6T, growth in 3T)
    2 Swords appear near my vHorses -- one Reg, one Elite. Drat...

    T102, 510 BC

    Settler+Spear pair sent towrds Spot 7.2 -- risky, but I should be able to repel the Arabs with my soon-to-be-built vHorses
    vHorses attack eSword -- 1st retreats, 2nd wins and is promoted (1-0)
    3rd vHorse kills rSword (2-0) and retreats to Forest, where incoming rSpear will defend


    Carthaginian Galley appears off G'gen. Damn, are they expanding overseas...?

    T103, 490 BC

    vHorse attacks rSpear and dies (Spear now 1/3) (2-1)
    1/4 vHorse retreats from Kufah towards soon-to-be founded city for R&R.
    Workers moved to R'dam's Hill to mine it for faster HG-build
    Change G'gen's Lib-build to Horse, just in case... (3T)


    Korean Archer kills 1/3 Spear for us.

    T104, 470 BC

    011 Middelburg founded --> CH (80T)
    Galley drops off 2nd Warrior for subcontinental exploration, but no villages left
    rSpear+2*vHorse park outside Kufah (3/5 eHorse still recovering)... risky, but Curragh2 has seen no more incoming. If I can capture it, I'll gift it to the Koreans to cut off the Arabs


    Raise SCI% to 50% for Construction in 9T at -8GPT (Treasury = 101g)

    T105, 450 BC

    v+eHorses attack 2*rSpears in Khufa and win (4-1). 2 slaves captured. All units moved into the city, and it's gifted to Wang-Kon. He's now Gracious, and all my injured units come home. I don't care if that is a cheap trick, it's how the devs intentionally programmed the game to behave... ;)


    Nora (Carthage) has been founded just south of my planned 2nd ring

    T106, 430 BC

    Send my healthy v+eHorses south accordingly. Nora will soon be a farm


    Attached Files:

  13. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    In the first turnset I start a second war, and finish my first one, while also trying to get my core improved (didn't bother recording most Worker-actions, since there was still so much to do...). I also build my first Wonder :smug:

    T106.5-T118 (410-190 BC):
    Spoiler :
    T106 IBT:
    Japs demand 23g. I cave for now, but I won't forget...
    Arab Archer attacks Korean Archer outside Aden, and dies

    Horses fortified in Forest outside Nora and Aden
    Carthage Galley requested to move
    Korean vArcher dies attacking Aden, 2nd rArcher fortifies right in my way...
    Utrecht builds Settler --> Settler (5T)

    Settler sent south to Spot 8.1
    Worker roads tile near Utrecht (3T)
    rArcher kills at least 1 of Aden's defenders, but is redlined, so I expect it to depart soon

    Galley reloads 1 Warrior for fjord-exploration
    Mines finished outside R'dam (HG now in 6T)
    Workers sent to mine Grass near Arnhem (3T) and road common Plain between R'dam, G'gen and M'str (4T)
    Japs+Byzzies still won't sell me Construction. 'Dora may want to buy some Horses (as might Wang-Kon and Tokugawa), once I can get another hooked...
    Korean 1/3 Archer retreats. Good.
    Hague Horse --> Horse (5T)
    Arabs have retaken Kufah (or it flipped)!

    vHorse kills Aden's Spear (5-1) --> Pop1. This is going to be a Pop12 farm, so --> Worker (10T, growth in 7T).
    vHorses move north towards Kufah
    E'ven CH --> Horse (6T, growth in 4T)

    Galley unloads Warrior on Hill -- can't see much but Jungles and more Hills
    SCI% to 30% for Construction in 1T plus 14g (Treasury = 26g)
    Nora only guarded by a Warrior! This is going to be too easy...
    Will hit Med-Age on this IBT -- maybe gift Koreans up as well, and see what they get? Naaah, would need to give them too much to bring them up to speed, including Wonder-techs...
    Now AVERAGE against Korea -- still WEAK against everyone else...
    Arab Sword kills injured Korean Archer
    Construction --> NEW ERA! --> Monotheism
    I changed my mind about pursuing Med-Age Mil-techs -- since the AI loves them so much, I should be able to trade for them if I've got something else. Feudalism is also a bust: I have no Iron on or near my land, and although the Koreans have got two, neither are yet connected(!) and both are a looong way from my borders (no-one else seems to have hooked any up, either -- apart from the Arabs). I'm therefore unlikely to get it anytime soon, thus can't build SMercs. Sooo... instead of the lower 'military' branch of the tech-tree, I'll beeline to FreeArt+Economics (i.e. ShakesTh + AdamSmith) for the Wonder-GA (need HG -- done in 3T -- then Smiths or Magellan).
    Byzzies are up Feudalism (free tech?) but haven't sold it to anyone else yet. Cool, That means I'm now joint second in tech with Japs+Carthage, and ahead of my neighbours, Korea and Arabia

    Settler arrives at Spot 8.1
    vHorses reach Forest near Kufah
    r+vHorses wait for Sword to approach Aden
    HGard in 2T... Please please please...
    Load Warrior(s) and start bringing Galley home
    DoW the Carthaginians, and capture Nora with eHorse vs Warrior (6-1). no MGL this time though...
    Nora's unhappy citizen set to Geek, growth in 20T...

    012 Delft founded on Spot 8.1 --> CH (80T, but growth in 5T)
    3 rSwords approaching Aden/ Wonsan! (I really, reeeally need some Iron...)
    Horses retreat from Nora (1 fortified outside)
    Raise SCI% to 50% for Mono in 14T
    Arnhem CH --> Lib (14T)
    R'dam builds HGard (YAY!) --> Lib (7T)
    Hague Horse --> Duct (7T -- will be 6 if I chop a forest! Love Agri!)
    Utrecht Settler --> Settler (5T, growth in 3T)
    Byzzies switch to SunTzu
    Arabs switch to GWall -- Uh-oh...
    Japs switch to ToA, GLib, and GWall
    Carthage switches to GLight

    Settler sent towards Spot 8.2
    Now 4 Swords around Wonsan/ Kufah
    vHorses kill Sword, both retreat at 1HP (7-1)
    SCI% to 60%, LUX% to 10%, Mono in 12T, +3GPT
    rSword kills my vHorse (7-2), Korean Archer kills the Sword

    T115, 250 BC
    Byzzies just got Engineering
    Carthage Galley appears between Arnhem and G'gen
    M'str CH --> Worker (2T)
    Japs start Sun Tzu

    Mobilise Horse/defences towards G'gen, R'dam
    Carthage Galley lands 2 Warriors -- ooh I'm scared
    Korean Archer kills Sword near Aden
    Eindhoven Horse --> Horse (4T with no growth)

    My v+eHorses kill Hannibal's Warriors (9-2), no promotions
    G'gen Lib --> Duct (7T at 0FPT)
    M'str Worker --> Duct (10T, growth to Pop6 in 7T)

    vHorses attack Arab Spear+Settler -- one dies, one retreats (9-3)
    Arabs sue for peace. I take Yamama and Fustat in settlement. They still don't have HBR
    Redirect Galley towards Fustat (will take >5T)

    In this turnset, I secure peace and then start preparing for war. I also begin to gain an appreciation of the Med-Age Wonder-cascade phenomenon, and how easy it is to lose a race. Of course, being the main/ only tech-broker between the two continents in this game, I'm at least partly responsible for all the AIs being able to build all the Wonders...

    T119-T130 (170BC-50AD):
    Spoiler :
    Now I've lost the WH, I have to raise LUX% to 20% and drop SCI% to 50% -- Mono in 8T, +2GPT
    Renew RoP with Korea, and gift them Currency and Construction to bring them up to speed
    Hague Horse --> Horse (4T)
    Utrecht Settler --> Settler (6T)
    E'ven Spear --> Spear (3T)
    Aden Worker --> Walls (20T)

    T120, 150 BC
    Koreans have Mono (free tech?)! Dammit!
    Found 013 Breda on Spot 8.2 --> CH (80T)
    Send Settler towards Spot 8.3, followed by vSpear
    Can't speed up CH-build in H'lem to finish in 1T, so rush it for 24g to avoid shield-overrun
    Make peace with Hannibal for everything he has (6g!)
    Increase SCI% to 60% -- Mono now in 5T
    Muscat founded 2 tiles north of SPot 8.3. Don't care. The Arabs are going to die anyway...

    T121, 130 BC
    Realise that half my core towns are misnumbered -- renumber all from 001, in order of founding
    Drop SCI% back to 50% -- Mono now in 3T, +14GPT
    Arnhem riots! So does everyone else! I'm stoopid -- forgot to reset the LUX SLIDER (after fiddling with SCI%)!
    R'dam Lib -> Rax (4T at 11 SPT)

    Found 013 Leiden on Spot 8.3 --> CH
    2 more Settlers, and my 2nd ring will be done...
    E'ven Spear -> Spear (3T)

    Drop SCI% to 40% for Mono in 1T, +24 GPT
    Arab's Iron is under Najran. I can cut that city off very easily (wish I could build a SMerc to do it with) :sad:
    Damascus has their Horses, which I also need to deprive them of
    Abu Furious about Galley near Basra. I'm moving already...
    Mono --> Theo (12T at SCI% = 50%, +5GPT)

    T124, 70 BC
    Before the Koreans can do it, I sell Mono to everyone with cash -- clean them out and take home a grand total of 40g. Whoopee.
    Arabian Spears cross Aden's borders (Aden is currently unguarded!) :eek:

    T125, 50 BC
    Begin irrigating roaded+mined BGrass near Utrecht for a 4T Settler pump. I want my continent colonised.
    Demand that Abu withdraws his troops. He says Yeah yeah... Looks like he wants another war.
    Arabs leave Aden. Shame. Then they sign peace with Korea. That's not helpful.
    R'dam Rax --> Spear (2T)
    U'trecht Settler --> Settler (5T, for now)
    G'gen Duct --> CH (9T)
    E'hoven Spear -> Spear (3T)
    Koreans begin ToA, GLight

    T126, 30 BC
    vSpear sent to Haarlem
    Haarlem's rSpear sent north
    Settler sent towards Spot 7.3
    Japs build Pyramids in Kyoto
    Carthage starts GLib, SunTzu

    T127, 10 BC
    Move rHorse to Mountains overlooking Muscat -- still only a vSpear there. I should be able to take a good 2-3 Arab towns (Muscat, Kufah, maybe Baghdad, maybe Anjar) with my Horse stack in ...11T, when the PT expires. Hopefully I will have traded Theo (due in 9T) for Feudalism by then as well, for building SMercs -- if I can get some Iron -- and getting a GA...
    Arnhem Lib --> Worker (2T)
    R'dam Spear --> Market (9T)
    M'str Duct --> Rax (7T)
    Nora riots
    Palace expansion!
    Arabs begin GWall -- again? GLib and SoZ
    Mecca builds GWall! Damn, that's going to make things trickier... Might need some Cats now...
    Japs begin SunTzu, GLight

    T128, 10AD
    Utrecht can now do 5FPT for Worker/Settler spamming. I'll build a couple more Settlers, then start on Workers, which I actually need more
    E'hoven Spear --> Spear (3T)
    Koreans building GLight
    Carthage building GLight

    T130, 50 AD
    Strike force assembled in/near Leiden so far = 1r+8v+1eHorse + 2rSpear. Soon...
    Arnhem Worker (--> Pop7) --> Cat (4T)

    During these turns I begin my first Big Push towards owning my land. Although things go mainly in my favour (on aggregate for the game so far), town-assaults are much more costly this time, due to my rival's WonderWalls ("But maybe, I'm gonna be the one who slays thee..." :band: ). I also finally get a low-maintenance 4T Settler-pump working properly, shortly before I stop needing it for awhile, because I complete my 2nd-ring, but still haven't built my FP (so I'm using it for 2T Workers instead) *sigh*

    T131-T140 (70-250 AD)
    Spoiler :
    T131, 70AD
    014 Den Helder founded at Spot 7.3 --> CH (80T)

    T132, 70 AD
    Theo now in 4T at -1GPT
    Utrecht --> Settler (Pop5) --> Setttler (5T, will be 4T with IBT shields)
    E'hoven Spear --> Spear (3T)
    H'lem Duct -> Harbour (6T, growth in 1T)

    T133, 90 AD
    Utrecht is finally ready to be a 4T Settler-pump. And it only took me about 100T... :rolleyes:
    Settler sent to Spot 8.5, because that tile will get more CPT (incense+Horses, once they're hooked) than 8.4
    MM a few cities to reduce food/shield overrun
    Hague Horse --> Horse (4T @1*9 + 3*7SPT)
    Carthaginiains unload Warrior+Settler SW of Nora. Here we go again...
    Arnhem Cat --> Worker (2T)
    Holwerd CH --> Rax (7T)
    Nora Walls --> Wealth

    T135, 130 AD
    Colonel F3 says we are:
    • STRONG vs. Byzzies + Japs
    • AVERAGE vs. Arabs + Korea
    • WEAK vs. Carthage
    Drop SCI% to 30% for Theo in 1T and +58GPT No one else has it yet, so keeping fingers crossed that I can trade for something useful...
    Theo --> Education (10T @50% SCI%, +5GPT)

    T135, 150 AD
    015 Harlingen founded --> CH (80T)
    Offer Theology around:
    • Carthage gives Feudalism, 80g and 4GPT
    • Byzzies offer Engineering, but only with 145g -- but won't take ANY GPT-deals (WHY NOT? I haven't broken any deals with anyone. Yet.) But they will give Chivalry for Theo+85g, so I do that instead, because I haven't got Iron (can't build SMercs), and Crusaders are stronger than Maces -- switch R'dam's almost-complete Market-build to KT, which no-one else is building yet (now 15T).
    EDIT: Have just realised that yes, according to my turnlogs, I did break a GPT-deal. I was paying the Carthaginians for Monarchy when I DoW'd them to take Nora (deal struck on T101, broken on T112). Whoops. There goes my trade-reputation -- the only consolation is, I DoW'd from my side of the border, so at least didn't compound that error with RoP-abuse.
    • Arabs give 67g (their Treasury)
    • Japs give Engineering for Theo+40g
    • Koreans give 10g (their Treasury)
    I am now in joint tech-lead with the Byzzies...
    Treasury is now at 180g, so raise SCI% to 60% for Edu in 9T at -5GPT
    PT with the Arabs expires in 3T...
    Arnhem Worker --> Treb (6T)
    Utrecht Settler (--> Pop5) --> Settler (5T)
    Byzzies begin SisChap

    T136, 170 AD
    Settler sent towards Spot 8.4
    Hague Horse --> Spear (3T), but will starve next IBT if I don't give it some irrigation...
    Koreans begin SisChap
    Medina builds ToA
    Japs switch to SunTzu, GLib, GLight, SisChap, KT
    Carthage switch to SunTzu, GLight, SisChap

    T137, 190 AD
    The Japs are building KT in Nagasaki, so it's unlikely that they'll beat me to this one...
    Build Embassy in Kyoto (47g). The Japs really like their Culture...
    G'gen Horse --> Horse (3T)
    F'stat Walls --> Spear (20T)
    H'lem Harbour --> Lib (20T)
    Y'ama Walls --> Worker (10T)
    Byzzies start SunTzu again, SisChap
    Koreans start SisChap

    T138, 210 AD
    PT has expired, so I DoW the Arabs
    Muscat's v+rSpears fall at a cost of 3 Horses (ouch) (11-6), 2 Slaves captured
    Arab Workers retreat

    T139, 230 AD
    Sign MA with Koreans vs. Arabs for Feudalism
    One more slave captured -- may lose 2/4 Horse near Kufah
    MM R'dam for KT in 5T
    Rush Horse in Hague for 48g, to avoid massive shield-overrun
    Arabs mobilise their Swords -- here they come...
    Renew RoP with Korea
    Hage Horse --> Horse (3T)
    M'str Horse (5/7s overrun, dammit) --> Spear (3T)
    Aden Walls --> Spear (20T)
    Muscat Slave --> Worker (10T)

    T140, 250 AD
    Found 016 Lauwersoog on Spot 8.4 (--> CH in 80T). And so the circle is now complete... Now I really need my FP...
    Retreat Horses from forest between Muscat+Aden, let the Swords come to me
    Pillage road to Najran to cut off the Iron -- City is currently defended by an rPike
    Switch Eindhoven's 'Duct-build to a Horse for 6s wastage. Need mil more than a Duct (14T to Pop7 anyway)
    Go scouting with Horse from Breda. Sulcis (Carthage) has been built on Tundra(?!) 5SW. There must be Oil there or something...
    Arab Sword kills Warrior near Najran (11-7)
    Arab Spear(s?) kill Korean Archers(?) near Aden
    Arnhem Treb --> Galley (5T)
    Utrecht Settler --> Worker (2T)
    G'gen Horse --> Horse (3T)
    E'hoven Horse --> Archer (3T)
    Holwerd Rax --> Archer (4T, at 0FPT)
    Byzzies building GLight
    Koreans building SunTzu
    Kufah's+Baghdad's borders just popped

    My war continues, albeit slowly. Also in this turnset, my rival manages to finish one free-unit Wonder, I get the other, and the set ends just before the first of those free units are due to appear...

    T141-T150 (260-350 AD):
    Spoiler :
    T141, 260 AD
    Move Horse+Spear stack NW from Muscat. One Horse scouts ahead and finds 2 Swords -- hope he has the sense to run...
    Income now at -12GPT -- drop SCI% to 50% for Education in 3T at +3GPT
    Swords attack+kill 2 Korean Archers instead of my Horse. Interesting...

    T142, 270 AD
    vHorses kill the 2 weakened Swords (13-7)
    Horse+Spear+Cat stack lie in wait for Sword+Archer heading for Muscat
    -1HP Horses (2v, 1e) moved towards Aden to cover 2/4 Sword-killer, and hopefully kill/ capture the fortified+injured Arab Spear+Settler
    Arab Swords+Archers head north instead -- large Korean rArcher stack heads for Kufah. Good, that should clear a few more off the board...
    Utrecht Worker --> Worker (2T) will use these to improve land and pump up Pop7 cities
    M'str Spear --> Archer (3T)
    Arabs begin SunTzu
    Warrior leaves Sulcis, heading NE

    T143, 280 AD
    With the Arabs heading north, start moving Horse+Spear+Cat stack to Forest 2S of Kufah
    Galley2 finally arrives at Damascus and unloads Warrior to pillage the Arab's Horses -- because if someone has sold or will sell them Chivalry, they'll be able to build Ansars before I get my SMercs! :eek:
    Education in 1T, but can't drop SCI% without making it 2T, so I leave it (-1GPT)
    Koreans kill the Spear and capture the Workers. Drat. Then the entire 5-stack commits suicide v. Arab Swords+Archers -- damn, that means the Arabs will have got some promotions
    Edu --> PrintPress (11T at 40%, +26GPT -- I need some cash) Maybe if I can sell Edu for a decent price(s), I can push the SCI% back up
    Hague riots!
    G'gen Horse --> Horse (3T)
    E'ven Archer --> Archer (3T)

    T144, 290 AD
    vHorses kill Arab r+eSwords and rArcher (14-7)
    We are now:
    STRONG vs the Arabs (+Byzzies+Japs). Good.
    still AVERAGE vs Korea
    still WEAK vs. Carthage
    Breda's Horse finds Sulcis guarded by NumMerc. Pants -- now I'll need LBMs (or Crusaders -- KT in 4T...) to take it
    G'gen's new Horse heads for Den Helder, just in case that exploring Carthage-Warrior gets any silly ideas...
    Offer Edu around:
    • Byzzies offer Invention and 18g (entire Treasury)
    • Carthage will give Invention+37g+4GPT -- I think I'll take that deal...
    • Byzzies give 18g
    • Koreans give 21g+5GPT
    • Japs give 15g
    That's everyone poverty-stricken, and my Treasury = 118g, so I can do PrintPress in 7T at 60%SCI and -6GPT :evil:
    Hannibal Annoyed about Horse near Sulcis. No problemo...
    Koreans kill/capture another Arab Spear+Settler. Dammit, those should be _my_ Slaves!
    Utrecht Worker --> Worker (2T)
    H'lem: Treb --> Lib (10T)
    Delft: CH --> Lib (16T)
    Tokyo builds GLight
    Carthage switch to SisChap, Leo's

    T145, 300AD
    Warrior pillages Damascus' Horses, just in time -- here come a Sword+Mace (guess they got their Iron hooked up again...?)
    My forces assemble outside Kufah -- attack with 1 vHorse, it retreats at 1HP. Let's wait for the Arty then...
    Archer upgraded to LBM (60g) -- other Archer-builds-in-progress have automatically switched
    Warrior redlines(!) attacking Mace before dying (14-8)
    Arabs land Sword+Settler near Holwerd -- where did they come from...?
    Arnhem Galley --> Worker (2T)
    Byzzies begin Leo's
    Constantinople builds GLib
    Byzzies switch Leo's and KT -- I have 2T left for this. Don't you dare steal it, 'Dora...
    Koreans switch SunTzu
    Mecca builds SoZ!!! (1st ACav due on T150)
    Arabs switch to SunTzu
    Japs switch to SisChap, KT, Leo's
    Carthage switches to Leo's, KT

    T146, 310AD
    Kufah's rSpears are bombarded, then assaulted, and an Arab rMace is also killed. I lose 3(?) Horses (17-11), and most of the rest will need some recovery time, but 4 Slaves are captured, and sent to road the Forest to Muscat (1T+3T)
    LBM sent to Holwerd
    Galley1 sinks Arab Galley and gets promoted (18-11)
    Short-rush Hague's Horse-build (8g) and switch to LBM (1T)
    Switch E'ven from LBM to Duct (6T, growth in 10T)
    Arab rSword approaches Fustat -- I guess they've finally noticed that it's been unguarded for about 10T...
    rMace from Baghdad attacks my eHorse, which retreats
    Utrecht Worker --> Worker (2T)
    G'gen Horse --> Uni (20T)
    Resistance finally ends in Aden (and then of course it riots)!

    T147, 320 AD
    Change unhappy citizen in Aden to Scientist -- now giving 9BPT (but will lose stored food next turn)
    Change unhappy citizen in Nora to Clown -- only way to improve it until Luxes are connected...
    Cat bombards incoming Mace, and vHorse finishes him off (19-11)
    Drop SCI% to 50% for PrintPress still in 4T and +7GPT
    Arabs will talk, but signing PT will annoy the Koreans... Think I'll just have to lose Fustat -- KT in 1T, so it won't be for long...
    Arabs found Mansura 2WNW of Holwerd
    Fustat captured for 0g stolen...
    Arnhem Worker --> Uni (29T)
    KT built in R'dam!!! :woohoo: (1st Crusader at T153?) --> Uni (12T)
    Yamama Worker --> Spear
    Japs switch to Leo's

    T148, 330 AD
    Rush Slave in Kufah (36g)
    LBM+Horse+Spear sent to take Mansura
    H'lem MM'd to avoid a riot
    Drop SCI% to 40% and raise LUX% to 30% to reduce WW (Print now in 5T, +11GPT)
    All units moved out of Kufah, in case of flips
    Kufah Worker --> Walls (20T)
    Utrecht Worker-pumping (2T)
    M'str LBM --> LBM (6T)
    Holwerd LBM --> Horse (5T)

    T149, 340 AD
    Byzzies+Carthage have Gunpowder, but I'd rather build SMercs...
    Switch Hague's LBM to Lib (5T) to reduce overrun
    Advance Horse+Cat+Spear stack towards Baghdad
    Can only get piddly useless cities (which I can take anyway) for PT with Arabs, and the MA will last another ~10T if Korea doesn't break it first...
    Muscat Worker --> Worker (10T)

    T150, 350AD
    Horse and Archer both die attacking Mansura (19-13), defending Sword now elite (2/5). Rats.
    f005 Enschede founded near Wheat+Cows on Lake-peninsula --> Settler (30T, growth in 4T)

    Attached Files:

  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    These 50T saw us getting almost all the way through the Middle Ages. I have spent much of this period in wars both real and phony with one or other of the AICivs. Most of these wars have been deliberately started or provoked by me, aimed at wearing down the AICivs which Colonel F3 identified as AVERAGE to STRONG compared to us, by 'recruiting' the less dangerous AICivs into MAs against the foe(s) I judged most dangerous.

    This strategy has been a mixed success -- although the previously most dangerous AICiv in the world is now the smallest and weakest, one of my AI-allies on the neighbouring continent AIs has now gone from WEAK to AVERAGE against me. The major war on my continent has also been a mixed result. Although I have achieved my strategic objectives (depriving my enemy of Iron, and weakening my ally by 'allowing' him to do most of the fighting with his Iron-bearing units), I have still not secured that Iron-resource for my own use, because the Iron-city is a long way from my borders, and has no Harbour.

    I am currently trying to decide whether I want to DoW my staunchest ally for his Iron as well. Now would be the best time to do it, while he is still weak from his prolonged war against our mutual neighbour, but he is not really a threat (behind in tech, in culture, weak military), and is a Sci-Civ, so may get me a free tech at the beginning of the next era, which I can then trade overseas...

    As well as being militarily strong even without Iron, (I believe) I have the largest empire (in terms of both city-numbers and population), I have built several strategic Wonders in my capital, and managed to maintain tech parity (even pulling into the lead a few times). Although this is all good, I am still not as far ahead as I could/should be (and I would probably be seriously struggling if this was a DG-level game). This is because my shield/commerce output from outlying cities has been seriously hurt by my still not having built my FP.

    I was hoping to be able to Leader-rush my FP in a 2nd- or 3rd-ring city close to a foreign border (for the Culture), rather than use the shields from my productive 1st-ringers. However, I received very few unit-promotions during the ongoing hosilities (and/or then lost those elite-units against weakened opponents), and no MGLs. I am currently building my second GA-Wonder (which no-one else is yet building) in my best 1st-ring town, so with luck I should be able to trigger a Wonder GA, coinciding with the beginning of the Industrial Age. My 2nd-ringers are now large enough to have a decent shield-output themselves, so handbuilding the FP in the best of these is my next priority (and a GA will finish it quicker).

    Here are the turnsets, with two savegames below:

    Spoiler :
    Adrianople builds SunTzu -- right under a Volcano, silly Dora...
    Arabs switch to SisChap
    Japs switch to Leo's
    Carthage switches to Leo's and SisChap

    T151, 360 AD
    Bombardment (2 Trebs, 1 Cat) of Baghdad has zero effect on rSpear defender
    Send Horses to attack Settler+2rSpears on Hill instead (2-3), 2 Workers captured
    Cover victorious vHorse with my rSpear to protect him from the 2 rMaces I can see...
    Byzzies found Naissus near Enschede
    Spear defends against 1st Mace but not the 2nd (3-4).
    Now-exposed vHorse repels incoming AC and gets promoted (4-4)

    T152, 370 AD
    Baghdad now has a rPike defending. Damn.
    Bombardment again completely unsuccessful -- is this the GWall bug...?
    Retreat my units from B'dad: Time to cut my losses, and let the Koreans take a crack at them...?
    Drop SCI% to 20% for PrintPress in 1T, and 47g
    rSpear in Stack kills 1 Mace -- another kills a Korean rSpear
    PrintPress --> Banking (15T at SCI% = 40%, +9GPT)

    T153, 380 AD
    1st Crusader built!
    Korea's Archer-stack commits suicide against Sword+Mace, leaves now-promoted eMace at 1HP, but gives the Arabs an MGL. Oh no you don't...

    T154, 390 AD
    eHorse kills 1/5 Mace and MGL (6-4)
    Retreat my 1-MP stack outside Arab borders
    Raise LUX% to 50% to prevent rioting everywhere (banking in 12T at -13 GPT)
    Have now got Incense to sell -- but have no overseas trade routes (need Astro)...
    Sell Printing to
    Carthage for Gunpowder and 25g
    Byzzies for 30g + 16GPT
    Japs for 15g (I could sell them Gunpowder as well...)
    I have 2 sources of Saltpeter -- one near Kufah which could be pillaged, but the other is directly under Lauwersoog... Damn, there go my SMercs...
    Koreans kill another Mace, and advance ahead of me towards Medina.

    T155, 400 AD
    Move my stack back into Arabia, since it looks like the Arabs have run out of high-A units for the moment...
    Have to drop SCI% to 30% to maintain the Lux-rate
    PTs with Byzzies Japs and Carthage have all expired (MA with Korea vs. Arabs still has 4T to run.).
    Korean Archers approach B'dad instead -- maybe they'll take a few HP off the Pike before the next ACav kills them...
    H'lem LIb --> Market (15T)

    T156, 410 AD
    Units piled near B'dad and M'sura (which has already popped from ToA-Temple)
    Arabs want to talk. Not yet...
    Osaka builds Leos
    Carthage switches SisCHap
    Korean Archers chase away ACav, and pillage road to B'dad

    T157, 420 AD
    Stack moved towards Medina instead -- maybe I can steal ToA, which would help with my happiness problems...
    2nd Crusader!
    ACav kills Koreans
    Holwerd Duct --> Horse
    Yamama Spear --> Wealth
    Palace expansion!

    T158, 430 AD
    Completion of road to Aden+ Yamama makes it possible to trade resources with Korea. I offer Incense and Horses, and take Furs. That (plus Markets) should also help with happiness..
    Oh no! Arab Mace kills my Crusader! You b**t**ds! (6-5)
    R'dam Uni --> Market (6T)
    Kufah switched to 10T-Workers
    Byzzies begin CopsObs -- that means they can sell me Astro...

    T159, 440 AD
    Mansura captured without loss (7-5) --> Settler (30T) for abandoning.
    Trebs+Cats bombard, then eHorse kills Mace near Medina
    vHorse dies attacking Mace on Hill above B'dad. 2nd Horse finishes the job (8-6)
    Neither the Japs nor the Byzzies will sell me Astro yet (Japs would give 30g +1 GPT for Gunpowder though)
    Cancel MA vs. Arabs and sell Contact w. Japs to Korea for 33g.

    T160, 450 AD
    Arabs won't give me any cities (apart from Fustat again) for a PT. Guess I have to kick them a bit harder...
    Rush Settler in Enschede ready for growth
    Think Tokugawa just swapped Gunpowder for Astro with Hannibal
    Hannibal lands more units south of Nora
    Renew RoP with Korea
    Delft Lib --> Harbour
    Enschede Settler --> Settler (30T)
    Japs begin CopsObs. So does Carthage.

    Spoiler :
    T161, 460 AD
    Koreans must have got an Iron hooked -- Pyongyang has a Pike
    Lose an rSpear to an ACav
    M'burg Duct --> Rax (8T)
    Breda CH --> Lib (20T) Need some more Workers down there...
    Kagoshima builds SisChap
    Utica builds CopsObs

    T162, 470 AD
    vHorse kills ACav and gets promoted
    Remainder of stack moves to Hills above Anjar
    Another ACav kills the eHorse

    T163 480 AD
    Anjar's Pike falls to Crusader, vHorses weaken the rSpear, LBM finishes it off. Injured units fortified in Anjar
    Resistance quelled in Anjar -- but then the city riots
    1st Korean Mace appears near Kufah

    T164 490 AD
    All units evacuated from Anjar, just in case...
    Skirmishes between Korea and Arab units. Nothing to see here, move along...

    T165, 500 AD
    Tilburg founded --> Settler (30T)
    Den Helder CH--> Rax (8T)
    Palace expansion!
    Think I might have seen an Ansar coming my way -- could be another ACav though, they were due one this turn...

    T166, 510 AD
    vHorse kills 3/6 ACav
    Units unloaded near B'dad -- high-D units moved down from Anjar's Hills, Spear + Cat + injured vHorses left fortified in place)
    Bloody Byzzies just got Banking -- I'll get it this IBT, so I hope they don't sell it...
    SCI% to 0% for Banking in 1T, 78g. Still can't drop LUX%
    ACav kills vHorse
    Banking --> Economics (13T at SCI% = 30%, +2GPT)
    R'dam Market --> Bank (8T)
    Delft Harbour --> Market
    H'lem Market --> Uni

    T167, 520 AD
    Assault B'dad. Lose a Crusader vs.rPike, LBM kills it. Lose a vHorse + eHorse against rSpear, but second (3/5HP) eHorse kills it. 1 Worker captured
    I am now AVERAGE again vs. Korea (they are now building Knights and Maces), so sign PT with Arabs (they pay 2g!) while I rebuild my forces. Abu has Astro, but will only include it in exchange for one of my techs, which I don't want to give him. Mr F4 says he also has at least one Ansar built.
    I will not be able to get the Arabs' Iron for a while, so I might have to :backstab: the Koreans for theirs, once they have weakened themselves killing the Arabs.
    Rush Worker in Anjar
    Can now drop LUX% to 30% and raise SCI% to 50% for Economics in 8T at +10GPT. Need to start a prebuild -- tweak R'dam to build its Bank in 9T to allow me to switch it to Smiths, then I'll sell Banking to anyone who'll buy it...
    Byzzies still won't sell me Astro for anything I can pay. Japs will take Banking for Astro+11g, but I don't want anyone else researching Economics (assume the Byzzies are doing it already...)
    Ansar Warrior appears and kills Korean units. If they weren't already, the Arabs are now having a GA...
    Anjar Worker --> Settler for abandonment (30T)
    M'str Market --> Horse (3T)
    Yamama 10T-Workers

    T168, 530 AD
    Evacuate B'dad
    Start planning my farm-map...
    Decide that Breda should be my next Settler-pump, so switch Lib-build to Settler and MM for completion in 1T. Then I'll build a couple of Workers to drop it to Pop3-4, then a Gran for pumping from Pop4-6 or Pop5-7. I need to fill up that southwestern land before the Byzzies + Carths do
    M'burg Rax --> LBM
    Breda Settler --> Worker (2T)

    T169, 540 AD
    Worker management
    G'gen Market --> Musket (6T)
    Muscat --> 10T-Workers

    T170, 550 AD
    Switch Utrecht to building Uni (9T) to avoid overrun
    Bring Spears back to Rax-cities for upgrades
    Hague Market --> Musket (6T)
    M'str Horse --> Musket (6T)
    Breda Worker --> Gran (15T)

    Spoiler :
    T171, 560 AD
    Worker management
    E'hoven Market --> Musket (6T)

    T172, 570 AD
    017 Zwolle founded
    Koreans lose another load of units to the Arabs

    T173, 580 AD
    Nothing exciting. Economics in 1T, but can't drop SCI%
    Economics --> Demo (9T at SCI% = 50%, -7GPT). R'dam Bank-build --> Smiths (26T)
    Den Helder Rax --> Musket (12T)

    T174, 590 AD
    Could sell Eco to Byzzies and Carthies, but I don't, because I want Smiths for my GA.
    Japs will sell Astro for Banking+70g. Hopefully I'll be able to make some of that back with overseas Lux-trade... PANTS! No, not yet, will need Magnetism to cross the Ocean tiles, even though my Galleys can go Sea->Sea in 1T...
    Leiden CH --> Worker (2T -- didn't notice it was still growing...)

    T175, 600 AD
    Return Spears to their coastal cities. I'm not going to have the gold to upgrade them until I can sell Eco or Demo in 8T, and besides, a crop of Muskets will start rolling out soon...
    Hague Musket --> Musket (4T)
    G'gen Musket --> Musket (6T)
    M'burg Musket --> LBM (6T)
    Carthies begin MagVoy

    T176, 610 AD
    Someone just got Navi and Demo and sold it -- the Japs, Byzzies and Carthies all suddenly have both (and also Chem. which they had last turn). I still have Econ monop, so Smiths is good, but ShakesT (which I also wanted in R'dam) may be in danger if someone goes for FreeArt and then cascades MagVoy to ShakesT...
    But them all having Navi is good, because at last I can sell stuff! Byzzies are richest, so let's see what they want: Ivory for 6GPT. OK, now Dora's Polite again, so I try with Salt and get 12GPT for that.
    japs are next most loaded, and will sell us Wines (2 spare) for Incense + Ivory + 7 GPT --interestingly, however, they won't sell Gems (1 spare) for that price, so I guess there is a scarcity-bonus... I take the Wines, but Tokugawa is still Annoyed for some reason...
    Also, I need to be careful that I don't lose the Ivory when I Settler-abandon B'dad and Arjan -- should probably have the new Settlers already in place...
    Fiddle with the sliders: I can get away with LUX=20% if I use a Clown in Utrecht (at least until it builds a Market), and SCI=50% will still get me Demo in 4T with +38GPT
    We are now STRONG vs Korea again. 20T of PT has expired, and Horse-trade and RoP deals expire soon as well (2T and 4T)...
    Hannibal Annoyed about my Axe near Sulcis. I apologise, and ask him kindly to remove his units (Caravels and a Warrior) as well
    B'dad building 10T Workers
    M'str Musket --> Musket (6T)
    H'werd Market --> Musket (6T at 0FPT -- that's OK, I can join Workers soon...)
    Leiden Worker --> 'Duct (9T)

    T177, 620 AD
    Use B'dad's Worker to build a Colony on the third Ivory
    Demand that Hannibal withdraw. He DoWs us instead. Kill the Warrior outside Tilburg, mobilise 3 more vHorses from the B'dad squad (will take 3-4T to reach the Carthage-towns), and switch Rax-town Musket-builds to LBMs and Horses where it won't waste shields. I have 4 piddly cities to take, but they are guarded by NuMercsand/or Muskets
    Utrecht Uni --> Market (10T)
    E'hoven Musket --> Horse (3T)
    Y'ama Worker

    T178, 630 AD
    Rush Settler in Aden
    The Byzzies want Economics for an MA vs. Carthage. So do the Japs. Hmmm... OK then -- if you're building units, you won't be building Smiths (I still need 22T) or ShakesT (2T to Demo, and FreeArt shouldn't be far behind) -- right?... :evil:
    Cancel Incense+Horse-export to Korea, replace it with Incense+Ivory+4GPT for Furs
    Watch Korea send its Knights to their doom...
    G'gen Horse --> Horse (3T)
    Aden Settler --> Settler (30T)

    T179, 640 AD
    Arabs got Invention from someone, so they can now build LBMs...
    Lose 1 vHorse taking Sulcis (2 rNuMercs). 1 Slave captured, town set to building Slave
    Drop SCI% to 40% for Demo in 1T, +69GPT
    Demo --> FreeArt (6T at SCI=50%, +20GPT). I am now in no hurry for Smiths -- I will start another prebuild, and switch Smiths to ShakesT in R'dam
    Hague Musket --> FP (Smiths prebuild) (15T)
    H'werd Horse --> LBM (5T)
    Den Helder Horse --> Horse (6T)

    T180, 650 AD
    Move units towards Gades and Calaris. Find a Jap Spear fortified near Calaris -- why?
    Renew RoP with Koreans
    M'str LBM --> Lib (8T)
    M'burg LBM --> Lib (10T)

    Spoiler :
    T181, 660 AD
    More manoeuvring of units towards Carthage 1-shield towns
    Buy the Byzzies and Japs TerMaps for 25g each, to get a better idea of relative strengths on Carthapantium.
    Rush Settler in Muscat for abandoning town
    FreeArt in 5T at +17GPT, and only 6T until I can DoW the Arabs (without rep-hits) again...
    Looks like the Arabs are losing to the Koreans...
    G'gen Horse --> Horse (3T)
    E'hoven Horse --> Horse (3T)
    Zwolle 10T-Workers

    T182, 670 AD
    MM Breda for Gran in 1T, growth in 1T -- can start Settler-farming immediately at Pop5
    Single vHorse kills lone rMusket in Gades, and captures the city --> Settler (30T, growth in 7T -- will chop some trees...)
    Reminder of stack move towards Malaca+Calaris
    Koreans ask for another MA. No, sorry -- not at this time... And no, I won't sell you Banking for 3g either...
    Breda Gran --> Settler (MM for growth in 5T, Settler in 5T, which will prime the pump at Pop4 :smug: )
    Gades and Sulcis quelled
    Palace expansion!

    T183, 680 AD
    f008 Gouda founded --> Walls (20T)
    Rush Worker in Sulcis -- it should riot then build next turn
    Think the Koreans are going to take Medina soon...

    T184, 690 AD
    Lose a Horse+LBM taking out Calaris' rNuMerc, 2nd Horse finishes the job --> Slave
    018 Dordrecht founded -- want to build FP here if possible, but start with a Lib (80T)
    Upgrade 2 Galleys (2*30g)
    G'gen Horse --> Uni (16T)
    H'werd LBM --> LBM (4T)
    Leiden Duct --> Lib (14T, growth in 1T)

    T185, 700 AD
    vHorse lost attacking Malaca's lone rNuMerc. 2nd vHorse kills it, town auto-razed. 1 Slave captured. My continent is now a Carthage-free zone.
    Drop SCI% to 40% for FreeArt in 1T and 78GPT
    FreeArt --> Chemistry (5T at SCI%=50% and +25GPT)

    T186, 710 AD
    The Dutch are now STRONG vs. Carthage! The Byzzies and Japs must have given Hannibal a serious hammering (good), but I am now only AVERAGE vs. Japan (bad), which means they must have seriously tooled up for their war. If I want to prevent them from running away on their continent, I must strengthen the Byzzies -- so my next job will be to capture some Carthaginian towns and gift them, to maintain parity...
    I am also AVERAGE vs. Korea, so I will need to start kicking them soon. I am already STRONG vs. Arabia, and will get stronger when the PT expires, so I while I go after Najran (Iron), I will 'let' the Koreans take Medina (ToA is already obsolete) -- and maybe batter themselves against Mecca as well. With Iron secured, I can start building/ upgrading decent attack-units (and SMercs!), then when my RoP expires (in 14T), I will go after the nearby Korean towns
    Start moving units back towards G'gen for loading into the Caravels and transport to Saldae
    MM Utrecht to finish its Market in 1T instead of 2T+10s overrun
    Utrecht Market --> Treb (3T)
    E'hoven Musket --> Musket (5T)

    T187, 720 AD
    MM R'dam for completion of ShakesT in 5T, and growth in 6T
    Abu's Furious about the Worker near Medina. Realised I didn't want it there anyway...
    Byzzies will give me Navigation for FreeArt+150g. No, I don't think so, but Navi for Horses+100g+9GPT seems reasonable...
    Breda Settler (-->Pop4, can only get 4SPT at 2T-growth, i.e. not enough for Settler-pump) --> Treb (5T), while I regrow to Pop5 (10T)

    T188, 730 AD
    1st caravel filled (1 Musket, 2 Horse) and sent to Arnhem
    Kufah Settlers (30T)
    M'str Lib --> Musket (6T)
    H'werd LBM --> Musket (6T)
    Mansura Treb --> CH (80T)
    Japs begin JSBachs

    T189, 740 AD
    Caravel reaches coast near Saldae and unloads
    DoW the Arabs, and move my Horse+Crusader+LBM+Treb stack onto their turf -- will take 9T to reach Najran , unless the Koreans capture Medina first.
    Utrecht Treb --> Bank (14T)
    G'gen Musket --> Bank (14T)
    M'burg Lib --> Market (15T until I can give it back some shield-tiles)

    T190, 750 AD
    f009 Leerdam founded
    Musket+Horses sent across Saldae's border, and see a NuMerc gurding the town.
    By mistake, I send all my Horses racing ahead of the Arabian-invasion stack. That may prove costly...
    SCI% reduced to 30% for Chem in 1T and +101GPT
    Koreans capture Medina
    Chem --> Metallurgy (6T)
    Delft Market --> Bank (40T)
    H'gen CH --> Rax (10T)
    Enschede Settlers (30T)
    Byzzies begin Bachs

    Spoiler :
    T191, 760 AD
    Arnhem wasting food, so I put a(nother) fisherman to work as a Geek for -1FPT, +9BPT
    019 Hilversum founded
    Land a third Horse near Saldae
    Korean Knight+Mace stack stop on/near Mecca's Volcano. I would love for it to erupt right now...
    Arnhem Uni --> Bank (32T)
    R'dam builds ShakesT! Yay! --> Bank (11T, growth in 1T)
    E'hoven Musket --> Lib (6T)
    Zwolle 10T-Workers

    T192, 770 AD
    All 3 Horses attack Saldae -- 1 dies (and promotes defender), 1 retreats, 1 kills 2nd rNuMerc
    Arab-invasion stack survives. Horses can reach Najran 's walls next turn...
    Ansar kills my eHorse, then retreats to Najran. Korean Knights seem intent on taking this city as well...
    Nora Settler --> Settler (30T)
    Breda Treb --> Settler (8T, MM'd for growth in 1T)
    Palace expansion! Get 2 extensions this time -- odd...

    T193, 780 AD
    Split Arab-invasion stack between 2 tiles to block Korean access to Najran . Now they have to go via Mecca :evil:
    Unload Musket+LBM+Crusader near Saldae
    Arabs send units SE past Mecca -- guess they're going after Korean units threatening Damascus...
    Koreans head for Mecca
    Carthaginian Caravel sinks Jap Galley near Saldae
    Den Helder Duct --> Lib (14T, growth in 1T)

    T194, 790 AD
    Crusader kills top vNuMerc in Saldae, LBM kills 2nd v NuMerc, and is promoted, Saldae is auto-razed... Drat...
    Narjan attack-stack 1 tile away from cutting off the town.
    020 Roosendaal founded --> CH (80T)
    rSpear killed, Ivory-Colony destroyed by Ansar. That will make people unhappy...
    M'str Musket --> Uni (20T)
    H'lem Uni --> Bank (20T)
    H'werd Musket --> Lib (9T)

    T195, 800 AD
    Saldae-assault force loaded back onto Caravels, and head for B'dad
    Lose 2 vHorses and redline a third killing lone Pike (on Hills, behind Walls) in Najran, but the town is now mine. Could build SMerc, but will take 30T so --> Worker (10T)
    021 Amsterdam founded --> CH (80T)
    Arab Galley spotted near Yamama
    Korean Settler+Musket head south towards Leiden
    B'dad Worker --> Settler (30T)
    Carthage builds MagVoy

    T196, 810 AD
    Build new Ivory-colony, and guard it with a Musket this time
    Fortify Horses in Najran, and a Crusader just outside -- remainder of stack sent to Fustat
    Rush Settler in Enschede (100g) to avoid riots
    Drop SCI% to 20% for Metallurgy in 1T +164GPT
    Korean Settler-pair heads south. Going to found a farm for me, Wang-Kon?
    We lost our Wines! Renegotiate deal with Japs: Wines for Ivory+Incense+4GPT. Interesting... Japs need Horses+Saltpeter -- excellent, means they can't build Cavs!
    Byzzies will give WorldMap+3GPT for Ivory. OK 'Dora, but only 'cos you smile so sweetly...
    Metals --> Physics (6T at SCI%=50%, +22 GPT)

    T197, 820 AD
    f010 R'dam founded
    Can sell Metals to Byzzies and Japs, and buy MilTrad from Hannibal, once I make peace with him... (MAs vs. Carthage expire next turn)
    The Dutch are now STRONG vs. everyone again, except Japan (AVERAGE). Good to know... (all deals with Korea will expire in 3T).
    Carthage wants to talk. Not until I've cancelled my MAs...
    Renew Saltpeter export to Byzzies, for WorldMap+9GPT+90g
    E'hove LIb --> Uni (15T)
    Anjar Settler-abandoned

    T198, 830 AD
    Cancel MAs with Byzzies and Japs.
    Tokugawa will pay Gems+7g (all he has right now) for Metals. OK then, since I just lost my last Ivory (it's all being exported).
    Since I've sold it to the Japs, I might as well sell it to the Byzzies as well. 'Dora offers her WMap+60g+13GPT. OK, done.
    NOW I'll talk to Hannibal... I take PT for 29g+Russadir. Then I offer FreeArt and Economics, for Dyes+WMap+1GPT+1Worker
    Finally, I gift Russadir to 'Dora.
    Tokugawa demands TMap and 41g. You filthy bully. OK, but only because I don't want another war while I'm still fighting the Arabs...
    Koreans cancel their Furs-for-Incense+Ivory deal. I offer Democracy, for which they will give Furs+6g. OK then.
    Breda Settler--> Settler (6T)
    Leiden Lib --> Market (17T)
    H'gen Rax --> Musket (12T)

    T199, 840 AD
    f022 Hague founded --> Settler (30T)
    f023 Utrecht founded --> Settler (30T)
    Rush Worker in Najran (28g) and Settler in Calaris (60g)
    Byzzies sign PT with Carthage
    Korea sign PT with Arabs
    Najran Worker --> SMerc
    Calaris --> 30T-Settlers

    T200.5, 850 AD
    Mostly just Worker-management
    Arabs still won't talk...

    Attached Files:

  15. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    I have been playing the Random Dutch Emp game on and off since my last post ~10 d ago, but now I've passed the 200T-mark, not surprisingly, it's taking me longer to play/log turns -- I've only got to T216, which is why there's been no major update yet. Also, with the run-up to Christmas, I've not had as much free time in the evenings, and a good chunk of the comp-time I've had has been eaten by admin rather than fun-stuff, so I haven't had as much time to devote to Civ as usual:

    Excuses, excuses:
    Spoiler :
    Our lappie's CD-drive died at the beginning of December (again -- it's been replaced once already), the LAN-connection port's never worked properly and that's now gone too (WLAN works, but the connection is very weak/ unreliable), and our AV-software license just expired. So I've spent a lot of time this month DL-ing and (re)installing software and updates, and trouble-shooting/ bug-fixing. And I also DL'd (more) GOG-games to replace my currently unplayable CD-versions. (I've extracted an agreement from my wife that we/I will get a new comp in the Jan sales, so this will all need to be done again, but I wanted/needed a semi-functional comp right now...).

    In happier news though, having been stuck on Star Wars X-Wing Tour III, Mission 2 for about 3 months,
    Spoiler :
    (using a Y-wing, kill a Freighter and Corvette, in a minefield, plus all the fighter-escorts, before I get nuked by a Frigate and its TIE Interceptors -- I don't enjoy the Y-wing missions much!)
    last night I also beat Mission 3, which has also had me stumped for a couple of weeks :D
    Spoiler :
    (again using a Y-wing, protect a captured Transport from Gunboats, TIE fighters and Transports long enough for it to reach a friendly Frigate -- did I mention that I really don't like the Y-wing missions?!)
    . Guess I ought to let my boys know that it's playable again... but not until we've finished reading HP1:pS!

    And I finally got to read the official manual for and discover the last AI-intricacies of F-117 Stealth Fighter 2.0, which I bought partly out of nostalgia, partly for closure, and partly to salve my conscience (20 years too late). (When it first came out, a schoolfriend passed round non-legit copies, and I spent far too much time investigating, playing, and eventually writing a self-helpfile for that game -- but I knew there were still a lot of things I was missing.)

    This game's looking won though:
    • It's 1010 AD and I have just entered the Industrial Age (I think that's a record for me)
    • I have the biggest, most powerful Civ in the world (my continental neighbours are dependent for their survival on my continued goodwill and forebearance :evil:, and my militarily most dangerous intercontinental rival has only just managed to acquire the StratRes to build Cavs)
    • I am effectively joint tech-leader (I actually took the lead briefly, but a SCI-rival just caught up again with their freebie-tech -- which predictably was also the one I am 2T from completing myself :rolleyes: )
    • I just completed my FP (which has decorrupted enough core-cities that I should now be able to do easy 4-5T research, or pump out overwhelming military)
    • And as if that wasn't enough, my GA is just about to start (2T with a Wonder-build, or 5T with my UU once a deal ends and I can DoW without trade-rep hits)
    I just have to decide how I'm going to do it (I was thinking about Diplo or Space, but Dom would probably be quickest now -- just need to build some more Raxes for vet-units)...

    Here's the log for T200.5-T216.5:
    Spoiler :
    T200, 850 AD
    Mostly just Worker-management
    Arabs still won't talk...
    Sell Ivory to Hannibal for 4GPT. He won't buy it outright for a lump-sum under any circumstances. Guess he doesn't trust me :snigger:
    Build an Embassy in Carthage for 66g -- it's at Pop8, guarded by 4 rMuskets and 2 NuMercs (1r, 1v), building a Settler (0s), about to riot...
    Dora can't afford to buy Incense. Wang Kon could, but I'm not sure I want to make any deals with him until he can sell me Iron...
    Arabs request audience. OK, what can I get? Hmmm. WMap, RoP, and 4 Slaves. Surprised but pleased about the RoP -- means I can get the Iron from Najran without having to rush a Harbour there (yet). Won't need to worry about a sneak-attack once I've upgraded all my Spears, Horses, and Warriors(?), will I? And having SMercs means I can trigger a GA even if I'm robbed of Smiths (currently 20T to completion)
    Korea contacts me Politely to renew our RoP. I refuse. Wang-Kon can't afford to buy anything, but won't give me Medina for any price I can pay.
    Middelburg Lib --> FP (19T). 'Bout time I built this, and though M'burg's SPT is currently lower than, say Holwerd, it will increase once I clear some more Jungle and can increase the Pop
    L'soog CH --> Duct (10T, growth in 8T)

    T201, 860 AD
    Oh yes -- now at last I can build mySMercs... oh yes...
    f007 Groningen founded (I have renumbered all my founded farms, captured and extorted cities, as f###, c### and x###, respectively)
    Hurry Slave in x001 Fustat
    Add a Worker to Holwerd
    Upgrade 3 vSpears to vSMercs (90g) and 2 vHorses to vKnights (240g). This leaves me with only 77g in the Treasury, but I can drop SCI% to 40% and still get Physics in 2T at +117GPT, so I'll have enough cash next turn to finish the Spear upgrades and then in 2 turns another Horse, and maybe 1-2 Trebs. And no-one else has Physics yet (although the Byzzies and Carthage are probably researching it right now...)
    R'dam Bank --> Knight (4T)
    Fustat Slave --> Wealth
    Zwolle 10T-Workers

    T202, 870 AD
    Upgrade 4 more Spears (120g) and 2 Trebs (60g)
    f009 Eindhoven founded
    Can't drop SCI% this time, but I'll get another 125g
    Physics --> Magnets (5T at SCI=60%, +19GPT)
    H'werd Lib --> Bank (14T)
    Gouda Walls --> Harbour (30T)

    T203, 880 AD
    Horse upgraded (120g)
    Korean Musket+Settler turn back to head north
    Utrecht Bank --> Settler (3T)
    G'gen Bank --> Uni (19T)
    Breda Settler --> Settler (6T)
    Sulcis Settler-abandoned

    T204, 890 AD
    Treb upgraded (30g)
    Settlers will found more farms to the south
    Join Worker to M'str
    Sell Physics:
    Hannibal gives MilTrad+30GPT+20g+WMap
    Dora gives MusicTh+2g+WMap.
    Tokugawa got nuthin.
    Now making +46GPT, but raising SCI to 70% and -1GPT doesn't get Magnets faster
    DenHelder Lib --> Market (17T)
    H'gen SMerc--> Cav (16T -- don't need more mil-units anytime soon...)
    Byzzies begin Smiths... in Adrianople (Pop5). Don't think I need to worry (I need 13T), unless they were building something else there already...? Hmmm... No, they weren't -- but they began Bachs in Caesarea on T190, so if they lose that to the Japs (possible, Caesarea is Pop5, and JSBC is building in Pop12-Kyoto), then Caesarea may cascade to Smiths (or vice versa)...

    T205, 900 AD
    Worker management
    Join 2 Workers to M'burg for faster FP build (now 11T)

    T206, 910 AD
    f010 Arnhem and f011 Maastricht founded
    Spear upgraded (30g)
    Crusader+SMerc board galley for transport to unclaimed Iron-Hill between Hyangsan and Inchon. Looks like my war vs. Korea should start in about 12T (FP complete in 11T, Fur-deal finished in 12T, Smiths in 13T...)
    Medina flips back to Arabs! Damn, that's junked some of my farm-planning. Told you you should have sold it to me, Wang...
    R'dam can now do 4T-Cavs :yumyum:
    Utrecht Settler --> Cannon (4T, growth in 1T)

    T207, 920 AD
    Decide not to upgrade my few remaining Warrior(s) to Maces -- very expensive (90g per) for a now-not-very-useful unit (I still have plenty of LBMs). Will use them for quelling resistance in captured cities instead...
    Byzzies don't want my Horses or my Incense. Sell Hannibal some Incense instead, for 4GPT+TMap -- I'll take what I can get, since Tokugawa is (still?) kicking his butt...
    Drop SCI% to 50% for Magnets in 1T +115GPT
    Korean Knights from near Medina start crossing my land. I'm STRONG vs. Korea, so not worried
    Magnets --> ToG (5T at SCI=60%, +79GPT). Think I'll keep this one to myself for now...
    Fustat flips back to the Arabs as well. Luckily I had no units in it (and the PT expires in 12T anyway...)

    T208, 930 AD
    Dora still doesn't want my Horses. Could sell her Magnets, but she hasn't got much to offer, so I just sign an RoP to make her Polite again. Hannibal has a lot more cash, but I don't think he's going to be around long enough to spend it...
    Arab Caravel spotted sailing south from Damascus -- will settle near Saldae's ruins?
    Aden building 30T Settlers (growth in 2T)

    T209, 940 AD
    Empty my Treasury upgrading another Horse (150g) and an rSpear (30g)
    f004 L'dam Walls --> Settler (30T)

    T210, 950 AD
    f012 Haarlem and f013 Holwerd founded
    Cat upgraded to Cannon (60g)
    Can drop SCI% to 50% for ToG still in 3T and +125GPT
    Korean evacuation of Medina-units continues
    Utrecht Cannon --> Cannon (4T)

    T211, 960 AD
    Move some mil-units around. Decide to have my Crusaders build a fortress near Wonsan, on a future farm-site, in preparation for the upcoming hostilities.
    M'str Uni --> SMerc (2T)
    Gades Settler-abandoned

    T212, 970 AD
    Worker management. Nora will be abandoned next turn, and ToG will be completed, bringing me into the Industrial era ahead of everyone else. Should I gift Dora my techs, and see what she gets?
    ToG completed.
    Use WTBP? to sell Magnets to Byzzies for WMap+5GPT+1g. She can't afford to buy ToG now, but Newtons is a cheap SCI-Wonder, so I think I'll hold that tech a little longer... Hannibal will pay 30GPT+90g for Magnets -- OK...
    Next tech is a dilemma. Steam is the obvious 1st choice, but it obsoletes KT. Nationalism obsoletes my SMercs. So I'll go Medicine (5T at SCI=80%, +5GPT), then beeline for RepParts, then hopefully SciMeth --> Electronics for Hoovers while the Byzzies do some of the Military-Industrial branch for me...
    E'ven Uni --> Cav (8T)
    Nora Settler-abandoned
    Leiden Market --> Harbour (5T)
    Palace expansion!

    T213, 980 AD
    f014 Middelburg and f015 Delft founded. Both set to producing Wealth , with 1 Scientist
    Holy moley -- Hannibal is down to his last 3 towns! I may need to challenge the Japs' expansionism soon... (Maybe they'll DoW me if I demand they move their Spear near Calaris. Or the Koreans will bring them into an MA against me, in ... umm... 5T. Or less, actually -- I'm importing Furs, I'm not giving the Koreans anything for them, so I could break the PT whenever I like...)
    (And the Arabs have indeed founded Bukhara on the ruins of Saldae)
    2 Arab LBMs move into the vicinity of Kufah -- why?

    T214, 990 AD
    Upgrade 2 more Horses (300g)
    Arab LBMs move south towards Leiden -- now what's Abu up to?
    R'dam Cav --> Newton (20T)
    H'lem Bank --> Frigate (8T)
    Koreans begin JSBach -- did someone just sell them Music Theory?

    T215, 1000 AD
    Block incoming LBMs with a Cav
    Load a LBM+Cav into the Caravel at Mansura (Crusader arrives next turn)
    Pull Slaves back from borders, toward farms.
    Boot a fortified Korean Mace from near f012. Was almost hoping that Wang-kon would DoW, but he folds. Ulsan only guarded by a Spear -- this is going to be too easy (although it really should have flipped to me by now!)...
    Have to drop SCI% to 70% to pay for new mil-units, but Med still coming in 3T (+49GPT)
    Carthage is dead! Thank you Tokugawa. Play nicely with Dora now, or I'll have to spank you and take away your toys...
    Koreans want to swap Maps. Don't think so...
    Arab LBMs move north again
    M'str Smerc --> Cav (6T) because...
    M'burg builds FP! --> Uni (11T)
    Byzzies begin Newtons in Heracleae (Pop5, totally surrounded by Marsh and Jungle, according to the last map they sold me!) -- I guess they just got ToG, which means they're now in the Industrial as well -- so what did Dora get?

    T216, 1010 AD
    Drop SCI% to 50% and still getting Med in 2T (+93GPT), which makes up for the loss of Hannibal's GPT.
    Bugger -- Byzzies got Med as their freebie... Hopefully they'll go for Nationalism next (I would, if I was on the same continent as Tokugawa!), so my beeline is still safe...
    Will need to start prebuilding ToE (and Hoovers!) soon, once I know how long it's going to take me to get to SciMeth.
    My best SPT-cities are now R'dam, M'burg and Hague (2T to Smiths and my GA!) -- but only R'dam will be able to build Hoovers, so I can't use the Palace as a prebuild -- I'll need to use UniSuff (or MilAcad, if I get an Army from the war...) instead, so I won't be be able to finish Hoovers on the same turn as ToE...
    The Japs have their turn before me, so the Byzzies will almost certainly cascade from Smiths to Newtons...
    DoW the Koreans next...???
    The latest savegame and a screenshot of my empire are attached below

    Attached Files:

  16. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

    Oct 4, 2003
    Silverdale, WA, USA
  17. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    A long-awaited Dutch Golden Age begins at long last, effectively handing me control of the rest of the game. I have built several more Wonders, taken the tech-lead decisively, knocked one of my neighbours off my continent, crippled my other neighbour for good (they are scheduled for demolition), and begun industrialising my core.

    Spoiler :
    T216, 1010 AD
    Wonsan's borders pop -- my Fortress (and all the units it contains) is now in Korean territory...
    We lost our Wines! Have to double my GPT to the Japs, to 8GPT+Ivory+Incense
    Dora will however now pay 5GPT for Ivory instead of 3GPT, and another 6GPT for Incense, so that makes up for the Japs' greed
    H'werd Bank --> Uni (16T) Could mine some desert here to bring in more SPT and less FPT...
    f001 Walls --> Settler (30T)

    T217, 1020 AD
    Move Workers into Fortress to road it, move everyone else out. For now...
    Drop SCI% to 30% for Med in 1T, +248GPT
    Arab LBMs move round behind Dordrecht
    Renew Salt deal with Dora for 24GPT (her offered price, instead of 9GPT!) -- guess she's worried about Tokugawa...
    Med --> Steam (6T at SCI=70%, +6GPT)
    Arnhem Bank --> Galleon (9T)
    Hague builds Smiths! Yay! Free Banks and Markets! And my GA begins! --> Uni then Bank (6T + 7T)
    Kufah Settler --> Settler (30T, growth in 5T)
    Utrecht Cannon --> Rax then Cavs (2T + 4T ea.)
    Yamama Worker --> Wealth
    Breda completes its Settler 1T earlier than I expected, because of the GA-shields --> Lib then Market, since it can get to Pop12 without a Duct, and I won't be able to use it as a Settler-pump during the GA (8T + 10T at GA-SPT, and growth in 1T)...
    Leiden Harbour --> Uni then Bank (15T + 12T at GA-SPT -- can give it more SPT in a minute)
    Den Helder Market --> Cavs (6T ea. at GA-SPT)
    Byzzies switch to Newtons
    We lost our Furs (from Korea) + Gems (from Japan)!

    T218, 1030 AD
    Toku will give Gems+WMap+11g for Magnets. OK...
    f016 Breda and f017 Leiden founded --> Walls (20T)
    R'dam can finish Newtons in 10T, or JSB in 16T. I'll switch to JSB (600s) if the Byzzies get Newtons next IBT, then go for Industry next, so I can switch it up to UniSuff (800s) then Hoovers (1000s)...
    E'ven + M'str Cav-builds switched to Banks (4T and 6T) to take advantgae of GA-SPT and reduce overrun
    Delft's Bank-build switched to Uni then Bank (4T + 12T)
    f006 Walls --> Wealth
    H'gen Cav --> Duct (5T, growth in 5T but build-time should be reduced when Hill-mine completes)
    f008 Walls --> Wealth
    Palace expansion!
    Arabs switch to JSB (in Medina). Invasion may be in order (RoP expires in 2T...)

    T219, 1040 AD
    f018 Den Helder founded
    Raise SCI% to 80% for Steam in 3T at -46GPT (Treasury = 418g). I need to get to Industry ASAP
    Pollution near R'dam!
    Najran Walls --> Wealth
    Zwolle Worker --> CH (40T, growth in 1T)
    Calaris Walls --> Settler (30T)

    T220, 1050 AD
    Just Worker-management.
    Will cancel RoP with Arabs and DoW Korea next turn
    Arabs ask to renew PT. No, I won't. 1st LBM kills a Crusader (0-1), 2nd LBM captures+kills my Marsh-clearing Slave Worker stack. Never mind, there's more where they came from...
    G'gen Uni --> Cav (5T)
    H'lem Frigate --> Rax (5T) (Lost my Iron, so can't build another Frigate -- yet)
    f007, f013 Walls --> Wealth

    T221, 1060 AD
    Cannon bombards, Cavs kills 2/4 LBM near Dordrecht (1-1)
    All other offensive units at the neck moved towards f018 and B'dad
    Research will overrun by 41b, but dropping SCI% will make it 2T and just push the overrun back to the next turn. So I convert 12 Geeks to Taxmen -- now I'll get it in 1T, but with only -26GPT instead of -48
    Steam --> Industry (5T at SCI=70%, +41GPT, Taxmen converted back to Geeks) HG and KT both now obsolete :sad:
    E'ven Bank --> Cav (4T, with overrun)
    L'soog Market --> Lib (7T, after I take a mined Hill from DenHelder)

    T222, 1070 AD
    vCav kills Arab LBM, gets promoted (2-1)
    Frigate bombards Bukhara
    f019 Harlingen founded --> Walls (20T)
    Not much

    T223, 1080 AD
    Cavs take Medina without losses (6-1), 2 Slaves captured --> Slave (10T)
    I now need combat-Settlers to found farms between Medina and Mecca, to retrieve my trade route to Najran -- B'dad, Kufah, Aden anf f004 are all building one
    Arnhem Frigate --> Rax (5T)
    Medina's resistance quelled
    M'str Bank --> Cav (4T)
    M'burg Uni --> Palace prebuild for ToE
    H'gen Duct --> Cav
    Mansura CH --> Harbour (4T)
    Kyoto builds JSB! Pants!

    T224, 1090 AD
    MM Medina to avoid riots, and rush Slave (36g)
    G'gen Bank --> Cav (4T)
    H'lem Rax --> Cav (7T)
    Breda Lib --> Market (7T)
    Byzzies switch their JSB-build to Newtons

    T225, 1100 AD
    Crusaders+LBMs+Cannon continue march to Mecca
    Rush Smerc in Najran
    Industry --> Electricity (5T at SCI=70%, +40GPT)
    B'dad Settler --> Settler
    N'ran SMerc --> Wealth
    Hague Uni --> Bank (7T)
    E'ven Cav --> Cav (4T, with overrun)
    H'werd Cav --> Cav (4T, with overrun)
    Dordrecht CH --> Lib (10T)

    T226, 1110 AD
    Nothing new
    Arab Carvel drops Ansar near Medina
    Various farms building Settlers and Workers
    Japs building Newtons

    T227, 1120 AD
    Cannon bombards and Cav kills Ansar (7-1)
    f020 Lauwersoog founded --> Walls
    Cavs lost vs Mecca: IIII (7-5)
    Crusaders lost vs Mecca: II (7-7)
    Mecca's defenders killed: 4 vMusket, 1 rMusket (12-7) and Mecca is mine. Arab capital moves to Khurasan, but now the Arabs have lost their WonderWalls, the rest should be easy (Fustat, Damascus, Basra, K'san, then maybe cross the ocean to B'ara)...
    I now have Iron again, so switch all 1st-ringers to building Factories (7-14T) except Arnhem (Rax in 2T).
    Rush Settler in Aden to prevent riots
    Upgrade 2 Knights in Mecca (60g)
    R'dam will complete Newtons in 2T if nothing cascades -- since this is my best commerce-city, I will keep going, since the SCI-boost would be useful (currently doing 80BPT), research more mil/ind-techs (e.g. RepParts for fast railing!) before SciMeth, and build Hoovers later
    Aden Settler --> Settler

    Spoiler :
    T228, 1130 AD
    WLTKD breaks out all over due to the Silks from Mecca
    Rush Slaves in Mecca (36g) and Medina (28g)
    Upgrade 2 Trebs (60g) and 2 more Knights (60g)
    Damascus' sole vSpear falls to my first Cav-attack (13-7) --> Slave
    K'san's borders are smaller than Basra's and it has only a Spear(s) defending, so that's my next target
    Renew RoP with Dora. Don't want to make MA vs. Arabia for Steam
    Arnhem Rax --> Galleon (7T until I can get its shield-tiles railed)
    R'dam builds Newton! --> USuff as prebuild for Hoovers (~30T)
    L'soog Lib --> Cav (7T)
    M'sura Harbour --> Lib (14T)

    T229, 1140 AD
    LBMs kill 2 Muskets and capture Fustat (15-7), but no promotions or MGLs
    K'san attacked: 2 Spears killed, 1 Cav lost (17-8)
    Upgrade last Horse to Cav (150g) and Caravel to Galleon (30g)
    Realise that 021 A'dam should be moved 1S to allow growth to Pop12 (f005 must be disbanded), so switch CH-build to Cannon to avoid waste
    Arab LBM dies attacking Cav outside Basra (18-8), Cav promoted (3/5)
    H'werd Cav --> Factory (11T)
    Leiden Uni --> Factory (18T)
    DenHelder Cav --> Factory (15T)
    A'dam Cannon --> Settler (30T)
    Palace expansion!

    T230, 1150 AD
    Rush Settler in Kufah to prevent riots (72g). Price no object, since I can now drop SCI% to 20% +562 GPT to finish Electricity
    Basra attacked: 1 Pike, 1 Spear killed (20-8), no losses, no promotions
    Start moving Cavs+Crusaders back towards Korea, leaving an LBM near each of the Arab towns
    Electricity --> RepParts (4T at SCI=70%, +59GPT)
    Kufah Settler --> Settler
    Breda Market --> Uni (12T)
    H'gen Cav --> Cav (7T, but if I get Rubber this should be switched to an Inf for 91s)
    f004 Settler --> Settler

    T231, 1160 AD
    Upgrade Galley to Galleon (60g)
    Rush 5 Arab Slaves (at ~34g ea. = ~170g)
    Workers completed
    R'daal CH --> Rax (8T)

    T232, 1170 AD
    f021 Enschede and f022 Tilburg founded --> Wealth
    I have a stack of 8v+eCavs near Wonsan, so I demand Ulsan in return for continued peace -- naturally, Wang-kon refuses
    Ulsan attacked: 1 rMusket, 2 rSpears, 1 Mace fall to my vCavs (4-0), no losses, 1 promotion, 3 Slaves captured, town reinforced with 3 Warriors and 1 SMerc from Dordrecht --> Slaves (10T)
    Load free Cavs onto Galleon2 near Ulsan, and move them over to Manpo
    Caravel1 unloads Cav, Crusader and LBM onto Iron Hill near Paegam -- Koreans now can't build new Knights or Maces, unless they buy Iron from someone
    Arabs won't talk yet, so I can't make peace on that front
    Arabs request audience. They have nothing left to give except WMap+RoP, so that's what I take.
    Korean Treb in Manpo bombards Galleon2, Knight kills one of my Cavs (4-1), Iron-Hill stack repels 2 Maces (6-1), and f012 Cannon+SMerc redlines another Knight.

    T233, 1180 AD
    Cavs kill 2 Knights, no losses, no promotions (8-1)
    5 Cavs + SMerc unloaded on P'gam's Iron-Hill
    Arab Slaves rushed (4*36 = 144g)
    Korean Knight+Mace SoD attacks f012. They lose 2 Maces, I lose SMerc+Cav (10-3), Crusader promoted (4/5)
    Pirates sink Galleon1 (10-4) near Sardica. Looks like Dora might be backstabbing me...
    M'str Factory --> Cav / Inf (4T)
    Delft Bank --> Rax (3T)
    Palace expansion

    T234, 1190 AD
    Cavs and Crusaders defend f012 from incoming SoD: Koreans lose 2 Knights + 3 Maces, I lose one Crusader (15-5)
    f023 Zwolle founded --> Harbour (30T)
    Caravel2 upgraded to replace Galleon1 (30g)
    P'gam attacked: Pike+2 Spears killed, no losses, no promotions (18-5)
    Inchon attacked: Musket+Spear+ LBM killed, no losses, one promotion to eCav (21-5). SMerc brought off Iron-Hill towards Inchon
    Scientists changed to Taxmen to minimise beaker overrun on RepParts
    Koreans attack f012. They lose 3 Maces + 1 LBM, I lose 1 Cav, plus SMerc near Inchon (25-7)
    RepParts --> Corp (4T at SCI=70%, +66 GPT). Taxmen reassigned as Geeks, or CivEngs in farms building Walls/Harbours
    Arnhem Galleon --> Frigate (7T) I'm wasting so much food here it's not funny
    Hague Factory --> Cav (2T)

    Utrecht Factory --> 'Rilla (3T). Wasting food here too -- need to mine some Plains

    T235, 1200 AD
    Hang on, why couldn't I switch to building Infs now I have RepParts? Oh hell, I have no Rubber! Oh wait, yes I do, actually two of them: one next to f017 (on Tundra?!), but not connected, the other is SSW of Mecca, outside my borders. The Japs have 2 more, near Kyoto and Edo. So Dora might be wanting some, maybe, even though she's just discovered Nationalism...
    Rush 3 Arab Slaves (3*36=108g)
    3/5 eCav kills 1/4 Mace, MGL appears! (26-7)
    Tasman's Cavalry Division formed, e*Cav + 2 injured vCavs added (5/13 HP)
    Injured vCav lost vs redlined Musket, 2/5 eCav also dies in the attack (26-9), which gets defender promoted (now 2/5)
    Crusader+Cav kill 2 LBMs near Inchon (28-9)
    Pirate reappears, fully healed, near Sardica. Oh Dora, how could you? :sad:

    T236, 1210 AD
    Healed Cavs etc. from Inchon and P'gan sent towards Manpo
    Korean Slaves rushed in all captured towns (36+32+12g)
    Jap Wines-import deal expires. This time it costs me 17GPT+100g+Ivory+Incense to renew it. I need some more Luxes to trade...
    Export of Ivory to the Byzzies will now cost them 8GPT
    E'ven Cav --> Cav (2T)
    G'gen Factory --> Rilla (3T)

    T237, 1220 AD
    Cannons bombard, Crusader kills rMusket near Aden (29-9)
    Cavs attack Manpo: 1 vCav lost, Musket+Spear killed, Treb captured (31-10)
    Contact Koreans on the off-chance. Extract 11g+8GPT+RoP for PT. I have his Iron though, so no Hwa'chas for Wang-Kon. Plus I get to keep my Fortress staffed...
    Send Galleon1 to pick up the Korean Slaves.
    One last Worker rushed in Damascus. Next time it'll be a Settler...
    We lost our Gems-import
    Dora will now pay 7GPT for Incense. OK
    Galleon1 sinks 2 attacking Byzzie(?) Privateers
    GA ends :sad:
    Delft Rax --> Cav (10T)
    H'gen Cav --> Market
    f019 Walls --> Wealth

    T238, 1230 AD
    Look round at my cities to see what builds need re-assigning now I lost my GA-SPT.
    Rush a couple more Korean Slaves, and a Settler
    Drop SCI% to 0% for Corp in 1T and 580 GPT. Then turn all my Geeks to Taxmen, and push that up to 650GPT
    Could throw Steam to the Japs for Gems, but won't. I want my tech-lead to get bigger now, not smaller...
    Renew Saltpeter export-deal to Byzzies for 24GPT. Interesting -- even though we've never been at war, my Foreign Advisor insists that the Byzzies have attacked us, confirming my suspicion that those Privateers were acting under Dora's orders.
    Corp --> SciMeth (4T at SCI=70%, +31 GPT even after switching all my Taxmen back to Geeks)
    Utrecht Cav --> Cav (4T)

    T239, 1240 AD
    Worker-management, getting my rail network built ASAP, and starting to clear up the Pop-pollution for R'dam...

    From this point, I should be able to win any way I choose, and I think it's going to be Domination, since owning my continent and about half the other should be enough to reach the magic 66%.

    The most recent savegame is (now) attached below. I don't intend to log or post any further turn-descriptions for this game, but will post the penultimate savegame, and a post-mortem, once I've got to that point.

    Attached Files:

  18. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    And at last it's done. I won a Space Race, in 1745 AD. I realise this isn't particularly spectacular, but I'm happy with it, seeing as it's the best date I've achieved so far in a solo-game. Just for comparison, I saw the other day that the latest date in the HoF for Emp+Small is 1720 AD (but let's not mention the best date, shall we?) ;)

    Apart from chopping and changing my VC choice -- out of necessity, due to the hostile AI -- the only thing I'm mildly unhappy about on this one was the 2nd-ring city-placement. Firstly, I adhered too slavishly to RCP, even though that's no longer 'necessary' in Conquests. Second, I crowded them too much.

    My first ring was at exactly distance 4 from the capital, but the second was at distance 7-8, where 8-9 would have been better (and the 3rd at distance 11-12). Once I decided to go for ShakesT in Rotterdam (more because I could than because I really needed it), and get it up to Pop20+, that meant that, in order to continue to have 12 tiles to work, the 1st-ring cities had to steal tiles from the 2nd-ringers, and the 2nd-ringers stole from the 3rd ring. So in the late game, I had 2nd- and 3rd-ringers running Specialists because I'd packed those towns too tight (CxC to CxxC). And in several places, I should have moved coastal and near coastal cities further out, to take advantage of the extra sea-trade.

    But all in all, not a bad first attempt at this level. I won, and that was all I was aiming for. The penultimate savgame is attached, along with a turn-by-turn log (which I actually found quite fun to do, so I carried on with it).

    Attached Files:

  19. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    I've been neglecting this thread for a couple of weeks, while playing a couple of non-thread games:
    1. A Standard Monarch Continents 70% map as the Persians (decided to go for Domination, just for a change).
      • I downloaded the 4000 BC savegame from this thread in CFC nearly 6 months ago, but didn't play it at the time, because I was otherwise occupied -- first with ABLES-SG, and then with the Large Continents Monarch Chinese savegame that I'd pulled from the same thread. In parallel with the Random Dutch game, I finally started playing the Persian game in December (for a bit of relief from turnlogging!), and a win is now in the bag
        Spoiler :
        Having cleared the Spanish, Carthaginians, Zulus and Greeks off my continent (only Hannibal still has some offshore tundra-islands that I couldn't be bothered to invade earlier), I extinguished the Celtic flame (the monster-civ on the other landmass) and am now only 3-4% from the Dom-limit. Mopping up the Carthaginians, and capturing some ex-Celtic towns which are currently Russian-held should be enough to do it, but I have a Lux-deal running with Catherine at the moment, so I haven't DoW'd her yet. It shouldN't take much longert though -- I have a couple of Cav-Armies, an Inf-Army covering a small Gang'o'Guns, and a nice Tower'o'Tanks, all poised to crush her puny Cossacks...
    2. A Tiny Emperor Random-everything-else map.
      • Although this was an all-Random game, I haven't included it in this thread for several reasons: it's for Vanilla 1.29, and I set it up as an experiment as much as anything (I've never played on a Tiny map before). The game did indeed take a lot less time than I'm used to, but was also less of a challenge than I'd hoped: less than a week later, this one is also as good as won
        Spoiler :
        Boringly, I got a Continents 70% map (Warm, Wet, 4 bn yr), and was assigned the Persians as my Civ (again). Given the almighty Immortal (and sharing a continent with the Indians and Germans), I decided to go for another Dom/ Conq vic before my neighbours could bring their UUs to bear. I pushed Ghandi into the sea relatively early, but it took two protracted wars to finally knock Bismarck off his perch (almost every other captured German city back-flipped at least twice, because Berlin had built 4(!) GWs).

        It's now around 1300 AD, and my Caravel-borne Immortal/ Knight/ Musket/ Cannon/ Cav invasion of the French mainland has already enjoyed its first victories. Joan hasn't even got Chemistry yet, or Horses, and I'm about to deprive her of Saltpeter/Musketeers as well, so it's pretty much all over bar the wailing ("Ah, Xerxes, mon cher, I sought we wair fren's? Oh, oh, oh, 'ow could you do zis to me...?").
    On topic:

    Following the Tiny Vanilla game, I decided to start randomising all the terraforming options in this game-series as well. This should make the game(s) more interesting/ challenging than the Random Dutch Emp game was.
    Spoiler :
    The 60%-water setting made the Small map feel pretty much like a Standard-size map, with almost too much land for expansion (and lots of room for farms beyond the core!). But with fewer opponents than Standard, and rolling the Agricultural Dutch as my Civ into the bargain, my Settlers were still able to fill that land quickly, such that when my borders finally met my neighbours', my empire was already twice as large as either of theirs. So for the next map I'll risk a 70 or 80% water as well (although I may change my mind again for later games, if I run into the Mayans or the Celts too often!).

    Randomising the landmass-type will make it less possible to decide on an a long-term game-plan at an early stage, forcing me to concentrate on playing flexibly until I know what assets I have available. Although I will then risk rolling a Pangaea and being forced into an AW situation, contrary to my wish in Post#1, it occurred to me that since I always end up warring on Continents maps anyway (I don't think I've ever rolled a game where I got a landmass all to myself), getting a Pangaea map might not make much of a difference to my playstyle -- apart from making a Dom/Conq vic (or loss!) happen faster. (And if I strike lucky :lol: and get an Arch-map, that will be interesting too, since I've never knowingly chosen that option before either)

    Regardless of the landmass-type, randomising the geology, potentially getting a mixture of terrain types different from the 'normal' distribution, should encourage (even) more careful city placement.

    The other thing that made the Dutch game feel a little too easy was that my Randomly-drawn Barb-activity setting must have been minimal: I only remember seeing a couple of goodie huts in the very early stages of the game, and only got 2 Axes out of the one of those that I popped. Also, even though there was a lot of fogged land left available for a long time just within my section of the continent, no additional huts appeared to get spawned. So I'll set it to 'Roaming' for the next game, and probably bump that up to Restless or Raging in subsequent games.

    Lastly, having done a bit of background reading, I also decided to switch on the 'Wonders' VC. This is to enable me (should I choose to do so) to finish a 'won' game quicker without simply quitting/ retiring (which would prevent the game from being entered into my high-score table as a 'win'), e.g. in case I get bored, or want to avoid grinding out another 30-50T for an inevitable 20K/80K vic, or as game-saver if my intended VC becomes untenable for some unforeseen reason (e.g. I can't easily get a StratRes needed for the Spaceship). Enabling this VC could also backfire on me in a close game...
    So for the next game I'll document in this thread (which I'll roll this evening), the starting conditions will therefore be amended as follows (old conditions from Post#1 struck out, new conditions in boldface):

    Map-size: Small (5 AI opponents)
    Landform: Continents, 60%water Random
    Temp.: Normal Random
    Humidity: Normal Random
    Age: 4 bn years Random

    My Civ: Random
    Opponents: All Random
    Barbs: Random Roaming (NoAIPatrol=0)
    AI aggression: Normal
    Difficulty: Emp
    VCs enabled:
    • Conquest, Domination, City Culture, Civ Culture, Diplo, Space, Histo, Wonders
    • AI Respawn ON
    • Preserve Random Seed ON
    • Culture-linked starts OFF
    • Culture-flips ON
    • SGLs ON
  20. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

    May 19, 2009
    Inside my skull
    I was otherwise occupied on Friday (finishing the Tiny Emp Vanilla game) and yesterday (finishing the Monarch C3C game, then helping my wife to organise/ supervise our son's 8th birthday party), so in the end I didn't get round to generating the next game until last night.

    And I got the Aztecs.

    I last remember playing the Aztecs while still getting to grips with Vanilla (where they were Mil+Rel), winning a Diplo vic at Warlord level (for what that's worth!). But I've never picked them in any games since then -- although I've encountered them regularly as opponents, and frequently regretted it.

    Civ details:
    • Traits
      • Ag = Automatic 3FPT in all city-tiles (also under Despot, if city has freshwater), +1FPT in iDesert, cheap 'Ducts, RecPlants, SolPlants
      • Mil = More frequent unit-promotions and MGL generation, cheap Walls, Barracks, Harbours
    • Starting techs: Pottery + WarCode
    • UU: Jaguar Warrior (needs WarCode, A/D/M = 1.1.2, cost = 15s, can build in addition to Warriors, upgrades to Swordsman)
    Potential opening moves:

    The start looks a long way from ideal, so I think this game is going to force me to play outside my usual Builder-box...

    At first glance, this looks pretty dire: near the southern edge of the map/ continent/ island, with tundra on at least 3 BFC tiles (if I settle immediately), which would later prevent me from building (m)any decent 1st-ring towns south of my capital. I thought at first I had no water either, but looking closer (200% view in CAII!), I can see a little streak of blue in the fog 1N, 1NE from my start point. So it would make sense to move the Settler to the Plains 1N: that tile still has immediate access to the BGrass and Game-Forest. If it also borders a freshwater lake, I'll get the 3 Agri-FPT from the city under Despot, and it can grow past Pop6 without a Duct; if it's seacoast, I'll be able (with Alphabet/Maps) to do exploration overseas as well as overland.

    What I do with the Worker will depend on whether or not I have freshwater in my cap: if yes, I'll road+irrigate (3+4T) the Plains where he stands; if no, I'll road+mine the BGrass (1+3+6T) instead. If I have freshwater, then chopping, roading and irrigating the Forest+Game Plains tile for faster growth (1+5+3+4T, I think) would probably be the next best Worker-moves; if not, I'll just road it for now for the trade. I have lots of other Forest tiles available for chopping as well...

    Since this is an almost totally Random map, exploration is going to be of major importance: I need to know ASAP what kind of landform I rolled, so I can make a medium- to long-term plan. Although I could just look up the 'World Properties' in CAII, I'm not going to, because the exploration/ expansion phase of the game is probably my favourite part. So after founding my cap, I'll build at least 2 Jags (3-4T each) for scouting. Curraghs are no faster than Jags, so I probably won't need to build them unless my Jags report that we are on a small island.

    I'll start on my first Settler-build after the Jags are done, at Pop2-3 (must remember to up the Lux% before the cap grows!). If I decide to chop, I'll put the shields into the Settler, otherwise I'll save them for a Rax/ Harbour later. I'll send the first Settler to the best 1st-ring site (either highest-growth or highest SPT) that I've found by that point.

    Short-medium term:

    If I am on the coast, and surrounded by Forests, that will limit my city growth for at least 50-60T, so I will need to make every Settler count, because even with the Agri-trait, they will take 5-6T to produce out of my cap at Pop4-6. Also, with no immediate freshwater access, and Tundra to the south, my cities are going to be constrained to Pop6 for the foreseeable future. That being the case, CxxC will be my best bet -- CxxxC spacing for eventual growth to Pop12 in the core will probably not be worth it (certainly not southwards, anyway...).

    I think that regardless of landform, this is going to have to be an aggressive military game for at least the first 100-150T or so, building only Raxes, and spamming out JagWarriors, Settlers, Workers and Archers as fast as possible to remove my nearest neighbours from the board. I've had a little off-thread practice at that recently (see above post), so I should be able to cope. My Civ-strengths tend to drive towards warfare plus Settler-spams anyway.

    Since my Culture will be minimal, razing+replacing AI towns will be advisable, which is going to annoy people. Oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound: I am therefore not going to concern myself overmuch with maintaining my (trade) reputation in this game. I will not make per-turn deals with neighbours/ targets, nor am I going to worry about waiting for 20T to break PTs/RoPs, if my victim is weaker than me. I will demand one-time payments of techs and/or gold in return for peace...

    Possible GA:

    Ag Wonders: HangGard (300s), Pyramids (400s), Hoover (1000s), USuff (800s), CfC (1000s)
    Mil Wonders: SoZ (200s), GWall (300s), KT (300s), SunTzu (600s), Leo's (600s), ManProj (800s)
    Ag+Mil Wonders: Internet (1000s)

    The simplest GA-trigger would be having one of my JagWarriors find and kill a wimpy AI Warrior/ Horse/ Archer. He would probably need to be an e-type Jag though... ;)

    To trigger a Wonder-GA in the late AA/ early MA (when unit shield-costs go up before most towns have reached high SPT) the cheapest Wonder-combo (in terms of shields) would be HGard+SoZ, but I'd have to acquire Monarchy and Maths (7 techs from my starters), and access to Ivory -- which doesn't look likely given my starting position. Going for the GWall instead of SoZ would be an even worse prospect, requiring 6 additional techs and another 100s to build. The most cost-effective combo would probably be Pyramids+SoZ, if I can find some Elephants, since that needs only 3 techs -- but if I have no Ivory, I can still default to GWall instead of SoZ for 'only' 3 more techs.

    Government/ Science:

    Since I would need Alphabet and Writing before I can get Philo, I don't think I'll try for the slingshot. If I'm going to keep my towns small, and go full-on military, then beelining for Republic makes little sense. And Monarchy is an optional tech at the bottom of the AA tree -- so Feudalism may actually be my best gov-switch option after Despotism, even though I'll have to wait until the Middle Ages for it: obviously that means I'll need all the non-optional AA techs ASAP. Staying in Despot for the entire Ancient Age will mean slow teching on my part, but since I'll be avoiding the most expensive optionals, I should still be able to do at least some research on my own.

    If I'm going to go AI-stomping (but also for GA-Wonders), it would be best to concentrate on the upper-branch AA techs: I'll go after Masonry and Alphabet first, so that I can research Maths (giving me all the techs needed for a Pyramids+SoZ GA). Since the AIs love BronzeWork and IronWork so much, I may be able to trade WarCode, Pottery and/or Maths for them. Once I have IronWork, I just need Construction for cheap 'Ducts (or if I need to take GWall instead of SoZ), and/ or a handy Iron deposit for upgrading all my Jags.

    Other than that, Mapmaking will become a priority if I find that I'm on an Archipelago-map, since Curraghs can't carry anything. If I can extract the Wheel from someone (and have Horses), I'll build Chariots for later upgrades to Horsemen after I get HbR. And then using my mighty military to DoW/ extort the rest of the lower-branch techs will be the way to go (that's what the AICivs are for, right?). Stomp, Win, Extort, Repeat...

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