Originally posted by mes17
Only a small part of the tenets of scouting deal with religion. Perhaps you should exclude those who aren't sufficiently friendly or sufficiently cheerful. There's many aspects of scouting which might attract a non-believer. Reverant is only one part of the law.
Lets try this:
Mission Statement
The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.
Scout Oath
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.
Scout Law
A Scout is:
Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
Reverent
Notice that the first part of the oath deals with duty to God. An atheist can not show duty to God. By definition they don't believe. One of the requirements for advancement to any of the ranks is to live by the Scout Oath and Law. Again, how do you show duty to God as an Atheist. You can do so as a muslim, hindu, are even if you worship the radioactive monkey god, but not as an atheist.
Originally posted by mes17
In some instances a boy left alone with a girl may try to get into her pants. If they find them attractive and if you have failed in your teaching of "strong moral values". It's no different for a homosexual boy. If he learned "strong moral values" he won't be hitting on other boys because he knows that kind of conduct at scout functions is inappropriate. You don't seem to have much faith in the boys to say no to an unwanted advance. As I posted before, I think there's little chance a boy would make such an advance due to the reaction of the heterosexual members of the troop. With a boy and girl no such check exists.
You are assuming that the person to whom the advances were made would come forward and tell about it. The fact is that most children that age would hide the fact. They will already be thinking about what signals they sent to make this person think it was OK to make a homosexual advance, they will be doublely afraid that they as well as the "gay" scout will be singled out for your reaction. Sorry, that agruement doesn't hold water. Victims of rape and child molestation don't come forward for the same reasons. Simply telling them that such behavior is not appropriate isn't always a strong enough. As for teaching them strong "moral" values, these are arlready people who are engaging in immoral behavior. But more on that below. The plain fact is that the majority of parents of the Scouts don't approve of homosexuality. Otherwise, the orginization would have changed the policy long ago, just as the Girl Scouts did.
Originally posted by mes17
In addition, if your so afraid of a 17 year old boy who professes to be gay(and that's the only way that your ban is effective) then don't put him in a tent with the 12 year old.
The Boy Scouts don't have boys of vastly diferent ages sleep in the same tent anyway. The maturity level and discussion levels differ, its a fact. It is better to keep the ages close to the same. However, that doesn't preclude a scout from being alone with any other scout in any number of different ways.
Originally posted by mes17
The scouts are supposed to be inclusive. The cover of the Boy Scout magazine, Boys Life, states it's "For All Boys".
Maybe they should change it to "For All Boys(except fags and heretics)".
The scout are supposed to be for everyone who wants to be one regardless of race, religion, nationality or economic background. Sexual orientation is no different.
Again, the boy scouts is a private originization, it is entitled to admit or deny membership for any reason that it sees fit. Any who do not like the exceptions made are welcome to start their own organization and do as they please. Now, a lot of the troops are given greater leeway in who they allow and who they don't. They do so at the peril of the core people who would have otherwise supported and helped the troop. Most troops are sponsered through a church or other religous organization. That is fact. It is religous even if you wish to deny it.
Originally posted by mes17
The Royal Rangers were begun as a church organization the Boy Scouts were not. They have no affiliation with any church and don't profess any faith. You're trying to turn the Boy Scouts into an arm of your religion.
I am well awaqre of the founding and the traditions of the Scouts. The Royal Rangers were started because the Scout's became so inclusive as to admit muslims, hindus and other non-Christian groups. I am not trying to turn the Scout's into anything. The troop that I am a Asst. Scoutmaster for has all manner of Christians and even a muslim. All of the meeting are started with an invocation and end with a devotion. As a matter of fact, that is the way they are supposed to go according to the material supplied by the BSA. What you are trying to do is to take the Scouts and make it into just another free-for-all with no moral guidance as we don't want to offend the atheists.
Originally posted by mes17
Wrong. The scouts are a public secular organization that profess no faith. I was in a troop with christians, jews, hindus and buddhists. You really have no basis for stating that most scouts believe that homesexuality is a sin. Most people in the U.S. do not believe that homosexuality is a sin. Assuming that scouting is a relative crosssection of the U.S. population then most scouts do not either. You also can't assume that because people check the "Christian" box when asked about relition that they agree with all facets of the religion. Without real evidence of scouts opinions your statment is baseless.
First, yes the Scouts are secular in that they are not associated with any given religous denomination, although they can be. There are big branches for scouts who wish to be in troops with just catholics or muslims, among others. What you can not deny is that being religous is a part of the Scouts. Period. That is were you are supposed to get the moral compass to meet the parts of the Law. As for the rest, most Scouts are Christian. Because the scouts make a point of practicing your religion, must scouts are more religous than non-scouts. If they are Christian then they have to believe that homosexuality is a sin or they are Christain in name only. The bible clearly states that sex between two men is a sin. So follow the logic, Most Scouts are Christains, Christains are taught that homosexuality is a sin, therefore most scouts and there parents belive homosexuality is a sin. I can tell you that every time another lawsuit is filed, this gets discused in a lot of the scouting circles. I have yet to hear anyone, and I mean anyone in the scouts say they think it is ok to admit homosexuals.
Originally posted by mes17
Now why don't you and your boys join or start a church group which excludes those heathen jews and muslims instead of being in one that professes inclusivity of religion. Would you quit the scouts if they decided to allow athiests?
And what is to stop you from sueing that group as well if they don't let in atheists and gays. The Scouts already excludes them, that is the oranization I am in. Why don't you and your start one that allows gays and atheist? The answer is that it has been tried many times and failed. Parents just don't want to send their children off to camp with them. I am sorry you don't like it, but it is a fact. This doesn't mean that they want any harm to befall those people, it just means that they don't want those people to have influence over their childs life in an un supervised setting.
As for the question of leaving the scouts if they allowed atheist, the short answer is yes. It then wouldn't be the organization that it has always been. I don't just want my child learning from every strip of moral character. I chose those I want to influence him and that is in the end my choice to make and not yours,even as much as you would like it to be.
Originally posted by mes17
The issues of homosexuality and athiesm were never an issue until the extremists decided to shout loudest in the organization. Just another example of narrow-minded people trying to force their unpopular views on others to the detriment of those the organization is supposed to be helping.
The issues of homosexuality were never an issue until radicals tried to force the Boy Scouts into accepting people of all strips. When they started trying to force the Scouts to allow members the Scouts, as a private organization didn't want in there group. This is just another example of people who feel they know better than others how they should live trying to force their ideals deeown other peoples throats. Not everone wants their children growing up exposed to those influences. If it was such a bad thing for the organization, why is it still around? Why are so many gays and atheists trying to force their way in? Why does every lawyer that wants to make a name for themselves think they can force the Scouts to change?