Brainstorming: Purity Level 1

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by BrotherAriman, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. BrotherAriman

    BrotherAriman Chieftain

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    I know it has been discussed a lot in other threads however the point of the exploit-ability of the affinity level was brought up in the most recent live stream as something to be looked at.
    And we also know that Firaxis and those who test for them look at these forums from time to time and I just thought it would be good to bring up the topic again for possible solutions to what some consider to be an exploit or broken mechanic.

    Some of my ideas are:
    1. Swap the level 3 and level 1 purity bonuses, this makes it less available early game to move about unhindered while still allowing explorers to go after satellites or farther away expeditions mid game. However the damage bonus against aliens would most likely have to be dropped down to 10% or so to make it a level 1 bonus.

    2. Keep some of the functionality of the current bonus but make it more limited, so for example the explorers will not be attack by aliens as long as they remain outside of a 2 hex radius of an alien hive making it impossible for explorers to single handedly take out nests by simply waiting for the aliens to move out of their nest.

    3. Make the repel aliens function an activated ability much like exploration modules. This idea has explorers equipped with a module which when activated works like a smaller ultrasonic fence pushing away aliens that come within 1 hex of the explorer for x amount of turns after activation, this could allow purity explorers to "brute force" their way through wild areas with a large amount of aliens by clearing a path while also allowing them to play an escort role for a group in these particularly hostile areas.
    However I would put in a limit that this modules ability to force aliens away from the explorer would not function on aliens within nest tiles as once again we would run into the issue of explorers farming nests.
     
  2. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Someone else had brought up the idea of giving the purity explorer a simple strength boost, making them more resilient to alien attacks, allowing them a greater chance to make an escape.
     
  3. swordoflight86

    swordoflight86 Warlord

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    Maybe Purity 1 explorers shouldn't have zero chance of being attacked, but maybe they have a "grace period" during which alien will not attack. For example, they won't attack for one turn, giving you a chance to move away from the threat.
     
  4. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    A strength boost when defending against aliens would make sense making them able to at least survive an attack or two so they can retreat. Or give them a "Fall back" trait that gives them a chance to retreat after the first attack on them by an alien. The important thing is increasing their survival.

    The problem with making them immune to attack in any form is that Scouts become superior Colonist escorts and city guards, things Soldiers should be better at.
     
  5. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

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    Whoa, now that is a brutal exploit, way more serious than the proposed, inefficient explorer wall. I hadn't thought about that.

    However, I think we can safely assume they'll tweak this. MadDjinn brought it up in the livestream, and Pete said they'd look into it.
     
  6. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    I think the problem would be less with Wall-o'-Explorer, and more with Explorers sniping Alien Nests with impunity.

    A "withdraw" ability vs. aliens would be a good alternative. +% defense against aliens would probably work as well.
     
  7. HecatesLover

    HecatesLover Chieftain

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    Its even worse than that. Madjinn said on one of his maps he milked the alien kill = science virtue by running an explorer around a cluster of 4 nests that were respawning. Apparently these heavy infestation areas are pretty common so Purity 1 can get nuts.
     
  8. gunnergoz

    gunnergoz Cat Herder

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    From what I've seen so far, it would be enough to change the Purity L-1 Explorer upgrade to a simple "May retreat when attacked" - say 80% chance to retreat (or less if still OP). This way, if it was trying to escort a Colonist, the latter would be left exposed and probably destroyed.
     
  9. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Things I can see

    1-immunity while performing expedtions

    2-retreat from alien attacks

    3-Combat strength v. aliens (only v. aliens)
     
  10. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    +200/+300% defence against aliens or something like that. Or xx% damage reduction from alien attacks.

    Another option is +1 visibility range for workers, explorers and colonists.
     
  11. BrotherAriman

    BrotherAriman Chieftain

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    Some other ideas I was thinking of given some of the comments in the live stream is that purity is about getting somewhere and then holding it, so the defense buffs suggested do work. I would also like to suggest +1 movement with a defense buff when working on an expedition.

    Another suggestion would be +1 sight range radius from controlled tiles to go along with the wider orbital range of purity level 6.
     
  12. HecatesLover

    HecatesLover Chieftain

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    I like +1 sight for explorers or explorers can disengage/flee from aliens as solutions.
     
  13. Gar

    Gar Chieftain

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    I was going to suggest something very close to this, immune expeditions (purity explorers know how to fortify their encampments ) and retreating from alien attacks.

    Another idea that just popped up: what if purity explorers could 'see' aliens further away in the FOW? , just red outlined tiles. They can't actually see what's there, but they could make smarter decisions and not walks into swarms.
     
  14. Gokudo01

    Gokudo01 Emperor

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    I think it's not only nerfing it but put it in line with Harmony and supremacy.

    Harmony : Level 1: Alien aggression level returns to neutral twice as quickly

    Supremacy : Level 1: Explorer Units can build an additional Expedition.

    Even immunity while performing expedition seems so overpower when you compare with harmony first bonus.
     
  15. jaldaen

    jaldaen Prince

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    I think it's better to compare Purity and Supremacy level 1 bonuses... Harmony is such a vastly different benefit it is much harder to quantify compared with Supremacy's additional Expedition pod which is easier to quantify (or would be if we knew a bit more about what expeditions grant).
     
  16. BrotherAriman

    BrotherAriman Chieftain

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    Ok how about this one: explorer units provide a % based combat bonus against alien life to all adjacent units. This percentage increases for each hive the individual scout clears out. This would encourage scouts being escorted by military units while giving them a more militarized role albeit a support one similar to a great general from civ 5.
     
  17. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Fun but too complicated.
     
  18. BrotherAriman

    BrotherAriman Chieftain

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    Yeah and now that I think about it the adjacency bonus would probably be better for supremacy anyway.
     
  19. Gokudo01

    Gokudo01 Emperor

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    you can't neither compare it with supremacy because it's not the same kind of bonus.

    But you can see how to make a good use of your lvl 1 affinity.

    With purity and supremacy, you just have to earn an explorer. Hopefully, it's your starting unit and it's the cheapest in the game.

    With harmony, to make a good use, you have to decimate aliens.
    You must get military units in order to earn the benefit. It's not a "pick and profit".
    That's why I think it's weak. If they trade harmony lvl 1 with lvl 3, harmony would be more in line.

    Everybody will have to attack aliens at some point, but you will not genocide them before getting your first affinity point.
     
  20. Aeson

    Aeson orangesoda Retired Moderator

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    For Explorers there are a lot of possible boosts that wouldn't be exploitable. +1 vision would be a cool one that's very useful, but not exploitable. Faster Expedition time would be similar to Supremacy 1 in effect.

    The Purity 1 bonus doesn't have to be an Explorer bonus. So there are countless options. BrotherAriman's suggestion is very cool. I think a bonus vs Aliens makes a lot of sense for Purity, as they are the most at odds with the native wildlife. +10% (STR and RNG STR) vs Aliens could be a simpler version of that theme. Might 2 gives +25% vs Aliens. Prosperity 6 gives +3 Expeditions vs Supremacy 1's +1 Expedition. So it would look to fit in at a very similar ratio.

    Harmony 1 would then likely be the outlier, but it's harder to quantify without more experience with the Alien AI and how fast it becomes angry locally vs globally.
     

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