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Brand New Grandma to this type of game. Help, Please?

Discussion in 'Civ2 - General Discussions' started by scloopy, Sep 15, 2003.

  1. funxus

    funxus Orange Cycloptic Blob

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    Although this applies to some, I'm pretty sure many of the emperor+ players would prefer Mike's over Oracle any day, and Bach plays quite a big roll if you want to be able to have units in the field while celebrating in demo.:)
     
  2. scloopy

    scloopy Lost One

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    I think I have spread out stuff through too many cities. I have one city that is the most capable and has the most assets, so I think I should expand it into a supercity.
    I think that maybe I am begining at least to head in the right direction with trade, but I should have started sooner.
     
  3. scloopy

    scloopy Lost One

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    As I am still learning, please explain WoW major and minor. I know you are going to wonder if I will ever catch on, but I am stubborn.:D
     
  4. funxus

    funxus Orange Cycloptic Blob

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    In the Civolopedia there is a section about all wonders and what they do. Check these and see which ones you find interesting, and try to aquire the required tech for it. Some of these wonders have an effect on the specific city it's built in (Shakespeare's), some have effects on all cities (Mike's Chapel), some have effects on all cities with certain improvements (e.g. Hoover dam),some allow you to build nukes or spaceships and some are special (like the Great Library).

    What wonders you want depends on the level you play and your own strategy. If you like warring, Sun-Tzu, Great Wall and Leonardo's Workshop are good wonders, but for science you probably want to build Newton's Col., Copernicus Observatory and the Colossus. For Happiness Hanging Gardens, Mike's Chapel and JS Bach are good. It's hard to get all of them, so sometimes you have to prioritize some of them. Well, you probably get the point, but studying the different alternatives in the Civilopedia is a good start.:)
     
  5. harperbruce

    harperbruce Warlord

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    True; but Oracle is available earlier, as a matter of routine. As I look at it, any Wonder that gooses citizen happiness is worth the time, as long as you don't neglect other things. (Which means I'm going to need to remember the Hanging Gardens from now on.)
     
  6. scloopy

    scloopy Lost One

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    I am beginning to wonder if I have moved too fast to a Democracy. I am wondering if I should have created more settlers to change the landscape. I seem to spend a lot of time making different cities happy and less time playing the game. I am considering starting over but I am at 1040ad and have lots of cities and some of them are loaded with wonders. I also keep getting asked what type of government I want and then when I go back to democracy I get more riots and mayors fleaing all over the place.

    Would it be better to start again or keep trudging along and hope I can do better?
     
  7. harperbruce

    harperbruce Warlord

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    (Sigh) It depends on your level of frustration. If you think the thing has a hope of making it to 2200 A.D., then keep slogging on. One sure way of curing the unhappiness is to choose fundamentalism after the next revolt, if it's available and you're willing to take the massive loss in science development. A side benefit will be that you'll be swimming in cash from tithes, the money coming from the temples, cathedrals and colisseums in each city. The dip in science can be offset some by changing taxes in favor of science and ratcheting it up all the way, no luxuries. And of course, if you take it in your head to go a-viking, it's so much easier to fight a war....

    If you've saved your game several times, with the default file name each time, you'll actually have a history of stages to fall back on. You could pick an earlier stage and restart at that point, not losing all your development and gaining an opportunity to try new strategies. I create a new folder for each game to store all its .sav files in, making it easier to navigate through all the mass of games I have sitting on the disk.

    Of course, there is the ultimate, as you asked: abandoning all hope (probably all of us have at some point), and wiping the slate clean. The good thing is that you'll learn from your mistakes. The bad things: (a) having to rebuild all those bloody Wonders, and (b) everybody starts fresh.

    As you may have noticed -- and if you're up on your Tolkien -- this is a case of coming to the Elves for advice. Many of us will say both no and yes in the process of answering you. The final choice is up to you.
     
  8. la fayette

    la fayette King

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    IMO this is not the way to go.
    To improve your science rate when playing Fundy, what you must do is RESEARCH WITH CARAVANS (remember that each time you deliver a caravan you get the same amount of beakers as the one time bonus in gold, and there is no cap, even in Fundy :goodjob: )
     
  9. harperbruce

    harperbruce Warlord

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    Ah! I was not aware of this one. I'm always learning something about this game. I knew your trade increased in the city, but I didn't know the above.
     
  10. scloopy

    scloopy Lost One

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    I do love such a decisive answer. I may think about awaiting Gandor's advice.

    I am beginning to think I shall do both, start a new game but customize it and try some new thoughts and keep slogging away with the old one just in case I am smart enough to get it right.
     
  11. scloopy

    scloopy Lost One

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    One of the problems in my game (my first) is that I did not produce enough caravans in order to be able to trade.

    Also I did not read the book untill I was well into the game and now I am paying for my mistakes. :cry: But I shall tromp on and hope I can fix some of them as well as test out new thoughts in a new game.
     
  12. MikeLynch

    MikeLynch Just a Baker Street Muse

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    What a great thread. You're making me wistful for my early days of Civ2, back when I wasn't a walking encyclopedia!

    Exception: I don't think this works if you trade with yourself. (At least not in Civ2MGE; is it different for ToT??) But it's a great point, and it could really help in coping with Fundamentalism (especially when, as I have, you've altered the game so it hurts your science even MORE-- I considered it to be too imbalancing before).

    But scloopy, don't even think about changing the rules of the game yet. :D
    Be proud, you've made a lot of progress. I know people who have played the game for years and do worse at it than you do. And stubbornness is an absolute necessity for any successful Civ player. ;)
     
  13. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    Gandor says: we learn best from our mistakes. Slog on, but concentrate on happiness improvements to the cities that go into disorder.

    -Hit the Happy button and figure out why each is in trouble. Do you have Michelangelo's and JSBach's? If not, focus on getting the tech and building them with caravans, or find out where they are and capture them.

    -Jack up the Luxuries level 10%, and recheck F4. Do that several times, and see if there are any cities that just will not settle down. Those are ones that either need a Marketplace or Bank to multiply the goblets, or build a couple Settlers/Engineers to take a few citizens off the top, or a Colosseum. Put the Set/Eng to work adding roads on any grass, plains or desert being worked by the city. This will add an extra trade arrow. Also road any trade specials, even if there is no reason to have a road there: that adds an arrow too.

    -Make sure there is a Temple in every city, and add a Colosseum in any that are particular problems. Colosseums are high-maintenence, but they make 3 citizens content, 4 with Electronics (think "football stadium"). If you dont have Mikes or cannot capture it consider adding Cathedrals.

    -Also think about Trade, not the bonus payments from delivery but the on-going Trade Routes, which add extra trade arrows that convert to Luxuries. Trading between your own cities suffers a 50% penalty. This can be offset by going to one of your cities on a different continent, which gets a 100% bonus. Better still to go to an AI city on another continent. The best is a large AI city on your own continent, as long as you have the "critical-path" road or rail link between the cities. This is a tricky thing and really requires some study and planning, so skip it for now.

    -If you have built a Super Science City with Shakespeares, Colossus, Copernicus and Newtons, it could have enough trade arrows to act as a one-way trade route booster (by "enough", I mean something like 80-100 or more!). The trick to using your SSC is to lower the small cities' trade arrows just before delivery (turn all citizens to Elivi), then put them back afterwards. This will create a one-way trade route between the smaller city and the SSC, but not mess up the SSC's better routes with AI cities.

    Your goal is to get all the cities balanced out, while getting your Luxuries rate down to the 10-20% level. This is an art, not a science, but you need to learn it sometime to keep a Democracy going.

    The next thing after that is learning how to make war in Democracy...

    Note to harperbruce: Dont set your Science Rate over 50% in Fundy. Anything higher than that is wasted. And that amount is halved, too. Many players turn it down to 10% (or 0%, but add a Scientist somewhere) and depend on caravans/freights for all their beakers in Fundy. Doing so means you have to master ship chains and unblocking tricks to keep the commodity caravans flowing. You give up the chance to have more than one tech per turn, as you are getting very little from your cities.
     
  14. scloopy

    scloopy Lost One

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    I am improving with making my dear little citizens happy. :crazyeye: I am even getting better at setting up trading, but I have now begun to build subs and destroyers and am wondering about the best type of units to put on them. I realize I am a pest, but boy this game is something. :D I am not quite ready to make war with anyone, but the barbarians do keep me busy. I have units where they land and am holding my own. My family tells me their flags are purple, but I have no idea who they are. :confused:
     
  15. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    Purple could be the Sioux, the Indians or the Mongols (when you right-click on one of the units it should show the name of its "nationality" in the right hand column).

    Subs can carry cruise missiles, but destroyers cannot carry anything. Subs are sort of useful for coastal defense, but they do not have as much movement ability as destroyers and the AI can see them anyway. I had a non-Vet sub sunk by a Caravel once, seems kind of odd but within the realm of combat probabilities (I guess in the real world you could say it was rammed...). The primary sea units for carrying things are Triremes, Caravels, Galleons and Frigates, and Transports. Carriers can carry air units, but not land units.

    If you are worrying about happiness you are probably in a representative government (Rep or Dem), which limits your ability to make war on others (but not to defend yourself). Once you move your war units away from cities or local forts you get increased unhappiness in your cities. Some of that can be reduced by building Womens Suffrage, which acts as a free Police Station in every city, reducing Democracy's unhappiness to the level of Republic's. Re-supporting naval and air units in the city with Shakespeares Theatre reduces the unhappiness they cause when away from home too. And finally, the Senate can interfere if you decide to attack someone, but if they have attacked you several times the Senate will often let you "continue peacekeeping operations"...
     
  16. scloopy

    scloopy Lost One

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    I have stayed a republic now for a long time as I thought maybe I could get things built and the engineers could improve things before I tried a democracy again. I have two games going now and one is a democracy and it is really a pain in the neck and I do not seem to be making as much progress in it as I am in the one where I remained a republic. Also in the game where I remain a republic I have one super city and with bringing railroads and
    re-enginering the topography the smaller cities seem to do better.

    Is there one type government that really works better with the AI than the others?
     
  17. harperbruce

    harperbruce Warlord

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    Again, it's a stylistic thing, and there are probably as many opinions as there are players. For me, for development, I'm trying a technique that I discovered in the Strategy discussions in here: aim toward Monarchy instead of Republic, and develop like mad. In Monarchy, you don't pay support for the first 3 units, and Settlers only cost 1 food. In theory, this allows you to produce up to double the settlers as in Republic. Then start building and developing. In my current game, my empire (I hate "civ") is about double the size it would normally be, and my trade level is through the roof. Since then, I've switched to Democracy; I took a few hits on happiness for a time, but got them mostly resolved. I now have 14k gold (where normally I'm struggling at 3-500), I'm building the Apollo program a hundred years before I normally do, and I'm planning to start sending out spies to subvert cities to the Cause. One downer is that everyone started singing Aggression-Containment Pacts against me, because I was growing so fast (grin).

    For war, though, Fundamentalism is the only real way to go. I think the pluses and minuses have been discussed upthread, so I won't belabor it again. Just remember, if you ever move up to Civ3 (Ack!), they don't have Fundy anymore.
     
  18. harperbruce

    harperbruce Warlord

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    Make that the #*%+@$# Senate. :sniper: Someone once said that it makes you want to drive a batallion of M-1 tanks through the Senate chamber when they force you to accept a cease-fire, just as you have someone by the throat.
     
  19. harperbruce

    harperbruce Warlord

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    If you're up to Electricity, you're making progress. Don't expect to get it perfect the first games you play; this thing's a constant learning curve. I think my first few games, my final name at 2200 (official game end) was something like "X the Gluttinous." :rotfl:
     
  20. scloopy

    scloopy Lost One

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    Hey, that makes me feel lots better. I doubt seriously if I can possibly win the first game I started which is in 1995. But, there are possibilities for the second which is currently in 1930. Should be interesting. :crazyeye:
     

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