Brave New World's Premier Resource Civ?

[SnowKomodo]

I should probably wait for everybody to play the game first, but I'm too excited and want to get this discussion started now:

Whether fair or not, civs with similar benefits get compared. We've seen it with Korea and Babylon (and likely Assyria will join that mix) and we'll soon see it with the new civs and new trade mechanics.

Obviously these civs are subject to minor changes, since we don't have the information 100%. And obviously their other uniques affect how we view them overall. In any case, I want to zero in on the resource aspect and I'm looking forward to seeing how they size up over the coming weeks and months.

Resource Civs

ARABIA

• 50% longer Caravan routes
• UB Bazaar provides 1 extra copy of each improved Luxury Resource near this city

INDONESIA

• First 3 cities founded on continents other than where Indonesia started each provide 2 unique Luxury Resources (Nutmeg, Cloves, and Pepper)

NETHERLANDS

• Retains 50% of the Happiness from a Luxury Resource if your last copy of it is traded away

PORTUGAL

• Resource diversity grants twice as much Gold for Portugal in International Trade Routes
• UU Nau can sell exotic goods for Gold and XP in foreign lands (can only be used once)
• UI Feitoria is built in City-States and allows you to take a copy of their Luxury Resources - You get 2 if you are allied with the City-State.

Morocco is definitely a trade civ, but I wanted to focus on civs with resource perks. Austria and Venice also are indirectly "resource" civs but they are just a little too different. Russia has resource perks, but only of the strategic kind.

So who gets the most bang for their buck? Who will be the resource king or queen?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think ARabia, it's the only civ that can trade more resources away at all times.
- Indonesia only gets their own unique luxuries, which are surely good, but they are difficult to get.
- Netherlands do not get any new resources, and although they do retain some happiness, I dno't think it's that worthwhile anyway
- Although Portugal can get resources without improving them, they surely lose it upon the City State's capture.

I think Arabia is the only civ that can benefit the most from resources.

 

[ferretbacon]

Am I the only one that thinks the Netherlands ought to retain 100% happiness?

Dunno, they need something though. They're pretty lackluster compared to the other three mentioned here.

On topic though... I think either Arabia or Portugal are the strongest. From a purely monetary standpoint, I think Venice has the most potential, provided they can get all of their trade routes up and operational.

 

[Bakspatel]

Has it already been confirmed that the Netherlands will not receive an update? I was hoping for a bit more with the new trading system.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Can Portugal trade the resources it gets from Feitorias? I was under the impression they basically acted like getting happiness from them as if you were an ally of the city-state without the influence.

 

[Bakspatel]

Can Portugal trade the resources it gets from Feitorias? I was under the impression they basically acted like getting happiness from them as if you were an ally of the city-state without the influence.

Yes they can. They'll receive two resources when allied to the CS.

Edit: About Indonesia: they'll be quite lucky being the only ones with some unique resources. But that might make them very attractive for others... especially if they have to settle on faraway lands.

 

[SnowKomodo]

New resource-related mechanics to keep in mind:

• Ban Luxury: A Luxury resource is designated as immoral, endangered or otherwise inappropriate for use by the general population. As long as the ban is in place, Civilizations receive no Happiness benefit from this Luxury resource.

• The per-turn gold value of the Trade Route increases with the distance of the route, the difference in local resources between the two cities, and the existence of Markets and other trade-related buildings in your city.

• "In general, the Trade Route system rewards you for connecting two cities that have very different local resources. So, it lists which local resources are found in one city and not another, and the more of those you have the more gold you'll get out of the trade route."

EDIT: Point 2 is partially incorrect. See below

 

[KrikkitTwo]

New resource-related mechanics to keep in mind:

• Ban Luxury: A Luxury resource is designated as immoral, endangered or otherwise inappropriate for use by the general population. As long as the ban is in place, Civilizations receive no Happiness benefit from this Luxury resource.

• The per-turn gold value of the Trade Route increases with the distance of the route, the difference in local resources between the two cities, and the existence of Markets and other trade-related buildings in your city.

• "In general, the Trade Route system rewards you for connecting two cities that have very different local resources. So, it lists which local resources are found in one city and not another, and the more of those you have the more gold you'll get out of the trade route."

Bold portion is incorrect

 

[SnowKomodo]

Bold portion is incorrect

Is it?

My bad. I copied it from Arioch's website. Usually he has his stuff down pretty solid. But I guess even the best make mistakes

In any case, we know that the greater the disparity of resources, the greater the income

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Is it?

My bad. I copied it from Arioch's website. Usually he has his stuff down pretty solid. But I guess even the best make mistakes

In any case, we know that the greater the disparity of resources, the greater the income

It was an inferrence from a statement before we saw the tooltip.

The resource disparity is the definite thing.


And I think Portugal definitely has the edge there... it can get resources To Trade from CS (otherwise Allying a Fetoria CS is pointless)...although it is Possible that they have allowed you to trade luxuries you are receiving from someone else.

 

[EEE_BOY]

I like the opening post about resource civs. Maybe expand that more and summarize the other types? Like trade route civs, war civs, religious civs, CS W Congress civs, tourism civs and science civs.....some civs can fit into different types.

This can derive different strategy sets to fit different civ types.

 

[VainApocalypse]

Portugal is the only one that's able to acquire resources for essentially free.

Other civs -- even Arabia -- has to invest in extra cities to acquire additional resources. That means losing happiness and cultural policies. Portugal just builds a tile improvement. This lets Portugal play the resource game while also having very few cities. This is a template that hasn't existed in CiV before.

 

[Ulthwithian]

VainApocalypse: While you are more or less correct, Indonesia gets a benefit from settling on other landmasses, which negates the happiness penalty for the city. And perhaps I don't know what I'm doing, but I don't have the same 'bad vibe' from small island cities that a lot of others do.

So Indonesia gets a 'free city' from a Happiness perspective, in a game that now has much harsher Happiness penalties, and gets another resource of that to trade (perhaps for more resources).

So while Portugal can get 'free' resources in the sense of not costing happiness or policies (but it does cost worker time / protection), Indonesia's ability doesn't 'cost' Happiness or Worker time. It's also active from Embarkation, while Portugal's is not active until you can build the Feitoria (Construction? Engineering?).

 

[Scaramanga]

Russia?

 

[VainApocalypse]

VainApocalypse: While you are more or less correct, Indonesia gets a benefit from settling on other landmasses, which negates the happiness penalty for the city. And perhaps I don't know what I'm doing, but I don't have the same 'bad vibe' from small island cities that a lot of others do.

So Indonesia gets a 'free city' from a Happiness perspective, in a game that now has much harsher Happiness penalties, and gets another resource of that to trade (perhaps for more resources).

So while Portugal can get 'free' resources in the sense of not costing happiness or policies (but it does cost worker time / protection), Indonesia's ability doesn't 'cost' Happiness or Worker time. It's also active from Embarkation, while Portugal's is not active until you can build the Feitoria (Construction? Engineering?).

The feitoria doesn't become available until Navigation. Indonesia's ability comes online at best at optics, at worst at the compass (a couple techs shy of navigation)

On the other hand, there's a hard cap on how many of these resources Indonesia gets. Two for the first three on a new continent -- 6. There's no such cap for Portugal. However many city states own unique luxuries, Portugal gets that number of luxuries. This can easily surpass six when you have more than a dozen city-states around. Portugal also retains the full utility of the feitoria on maps without separate landmasses.

 

[Seek]

Portugal is the only one that's able to acquire resources for essentially free.

Other civs -- even Arabia -- has to invest in extra cities to acquire additional resources. That means losing happiness and cultural policies. Portugal just builds a tile improvement. This lets Portugal play the resource game while also having very few cities. This is a template that hasn't existed in CiV before.

Eh, I don't think it will be as easy as that: You need extra workers to travel all over the world to build the Feitorias and extra military to escort and guard them once they're built (potentially ticking off the CS if you're not friends). They will require investment; whether it's more or less than other "resource civs" remains to be seen.

 

[Ulthwithian]

VainApocalypse: Perhaps it's the maps I play on, but when I play on any of the 'standard' maps (like Pangaea, Continents, etc.), I have never had a problem finding city sites that would qualify for the Indonesian Luxuries.

Also, there most certainly is a cap, at least in the Happiness area, for the resources Portugal can get: the number of Luxury resources on the map. This is the same limit that all Civs have... except Indonesia. Even if Portugal has feitoria with every CS on the map (which is, IMO, highly unlikely), Indonesia can still have 12 more Happiness from luxuries than Portugal.

I'm not saying that Indonesia is 'superior' to Portugal in this regard, but I am saying that I think they're a LOT closer than you seem to see them.

Edit: One advantage that Portugal does have is that a Feitoria placed with a Mercantile CS should give them access to the unique Luxury of that CS... which, AFAIK, is the only way you can trade those resources in the game.

 

[VainApocalypse]

Eh, I don't think it will be as easy as that: You need extra workers to travel all over the world to build the Feitorias and extra military to escort and guard them once they're built (potentially ticking off the CS if you're not friends). They will require investment; whether it's more or less than other "resource civs" remains to be seen.

I don't think it'd be that big of a hassle. By mid game (when the feitoria becomes available), my workers are usually idle as it is, and barbarians have mostly ceased to exist. I imagine that ten turns before I get navigation, I'll send four or so workers out without escort. I'll put a feitoria in every city state and will disband the extra workers afterward.

 

[Seek]

The feitoria doesn't become available until Navigation. Indonesia's ability comes online at best at optics, at worst at the compass (a couple techs shy of navigation)

On the other hand, there's a hard cap on how many of these resources Indonesia gets. Two for the first three on a new continent -- 6. There's no such cap for Portugal. However many city states own unique luxuries, Portugal gets that number of luxuries. This can easily surpass six when you have more than a dozen city-states around. Portugal also retains the full utility of the feitoria on maps without separate landmasses.

In most games resource distribution for CS is limited - most CS share the same luxuries - so it's as map-dependent as Indonesia's ability.

VainApocalypse:

Would you mind using the quote feature instead of this method? It can sometimes be difficult to tell what post you're discussing.

Edit:

I don't think it'd be that big of a hassle. By mid game (when the feitoria becomes available), my workers are usually idle as it is, and barbarians have mostly ceased to exist. I imagine that ten turns before I get navigation, I'll send four or so workers out without escort. I'll put a feitoria in every city state and will disband the extra workers afterward.

Good point, but it doesn't address the need to guard the Feitorias (and the resultant military investment). It's been speculated that CSs will pave over the Feitoria as soon as it's uncovered, not to mention if you get a DoW from a CS's neighbor.

 

[Ulthwithian]

Would you mind using the quote feature instead of this method? It can sometimes be difficult to tell what post you're discussing.

Why, yes, yes, I do mind. As this post so well illustrates. //

Seriously, sorry. Didn't realize I was causing problems.... I'll do better.