Brazil & Rain Forest Appeal

[isau]

So I did some tests on Appeal that may or may not apply to Brazil's specific bonuses (I tested with generic improvements and not brazil's modifier specifically.) To test I jacked up the appeal of Farms from +0 to +30 Appeal. We can see in the photo the "donut" effect. The Farm tile itself didn't go up in Appeal, but the tiles next to it skyrocketed. Unfortunately, the tile tooltip broke and I can't get it to display an image showing the amount of appeal being transferred to adjacent tiles. However, before it broke, I could see the amount on the seaside resort to the SW was +29. Hilariously, this is the first time I've seen the value of a yield max out and display as a star instead of the actual value, due to Seaside Resorts gaining 1 gold per level of tile appeal.

I also noticed the appeal didn't apply the moment I placed the improvement. It only shot up once I ended the turn, one turn after placing the improvement.

 

[Victoria]

I also noticed the appeal didn't apply the moment I placed the improvement. It only shot up once I ended the turn, one turn after placing the improvement.

Yes, like many things it is only assessed at the end of the turn. I am currently testing cede and warmonger and they are only assessed at the end of the turn also.

The Farm tile itself didn't go up in Appeal, but the tiles next to it skyrocketed

thanks fo rthe confirmation, a tile does not affect itself. This makes sense if you think of placing a neighbourhood, its own tile is replaces with the neighbourhood. It would be confusing if they did that.

display as a star instead of the actual value,

You can get very high gold yields from normal seaside resorts and get a star without pumping a farm value

 

[isau]

I did some testing using the specific Modifier used by Brazil to verify some statements from earlier in this thread. To test, I changed the appeal bonus from +2 to +30. To talk about it I have to modify my language somewhat. I'll split it into 2 terms:

• Radial Appeal: The appeal value a tile communicates to adjacent tiles
• Effective Appeal: The calculated appeal of this tile, which is based on the Radial Value communicated by adjacent tiles

Improvements and the Brazil ability increase the Radial Appeal of a tile. Radial Appeal is not included in that tile's own Effective Appeal (as Victoria explained), so when you push the Radial Appeal really high, you get a "donut" effect with an ugly tile surrounded by Breathtaking ones. In practice, this means if you have a single piece of rainforest, tiles next to it will go up in Effective Appeal but the rainforest tile itself will not. To be honest I have no idea if this is intentional, but this entire Brazil ability is a secret not documented in the civ's description (beyond a very misleading mention of +1 housing in neighborhoods) so possibly this is how it was intended.

Anyway, by cranking up the values really high you can also see very clearly that when Brazil gains hold of a tile, the increase the Radial Appeal radiates even to nearby tiles Brazil does not own. Check out the bright green tiles just outside Brazil's borders in the screenshot below. The ones touching a rainforest owned by Brazil are receiving the +30 bonus, so they go solid green. Ones not touching a rainforest owned by Brazil are mostly red because they are dragging each other down in Effective Appeal. I suspect there may be a bit more to this in the final calculation (e.g. I think the Rainforest tile itself, being a feature and not an improvement or modifier effects land differently, possibly that's explained in the write up Victoria linked to) , but that's the essence of how the Brazil modifier itself is working.

Note if you look carefully you can also see the solo piece of rainforest directly west of the city is not Breathtaking, because even though its Radial Appeal is high, Radial Appeal isn't included in a tile's own Effective Appeal.

 

[Victoria]

I did some testing using the specific Modifier used by Brazil

Good stuff but without the appeal numbers its limited but does clearly show the dounut effect.. however if you want to be clear show the brazil tiles but from teh view of another civ and they will not be +30, they will be -3 and -2 and so forth

 

[isau]

Good stuff but without the appeal numbers its limited but does clearly show the dounut effect.. however if you want to be clear show the brazil tiles but from teh view of another civ and they will not be +30, they will be -3 and -2 and so forth

Good idea. I just tested it with a mockup game. Playing as Cleopatra with Pedro as an AI, here's what I see for the Appeal of tiles:

Also, when I place a city and grab tiles next to his rainforests, I get the Radial Appeal from those tiles. Brazil changes the Radial Appeal of the tile itself, as long as it holds the tile and the radial effect applies regardless of who owns the tiles adjacent.

 

[Victoria]

Good idea. I just tested it with a mockup game. Playing as Cleopatra with Pedro as an AI, here's what I see for the Appeal of tiles:

Nice, not what I expected at all. I was fairly sure the value would only affect Brazil otherwise being a neighbour of Brazil allows you to utilize their benefits.... and that sems to be exactlyu what you can do... OMG bad design but nice to know and glad to be wrong, especially when I am taught something new.

Brazilian Rainforests can make my seaside resorts better... nice! (touch of sarcasm in that)

Also... great to see someone posting good testing proof.

 

[isau]

Just to verify, I did the same test with Improvements. Recall that I modded Farms to provide +30 Appeal. Now what's a little surprising is the way this actually affects the game.

- Tiles I do not own immediately receive the Radial Appeal, the moment the improvement is built
- Tiles I own receive the Radial Appeal only once I end my turn

Here's a screenshot showing a split between owned and unowned tiles:

So basically if you are ever looking at how adding an Improvement is affecting your Appeal, you should always end your turn before looking.


Also, although I suppose it's to be expected, like Brazil's rainforest ability, Improvements don't care who owns adjacent tiles, the Radial Appeal still applies. See here, where a Farm that was boosted to provide +30 Appeal is providing that to a tile owned by Brazil. So I suppose this has implications when your neighbor is Egypt (Sphinxes) and whatever other civs have Improvements that adjust Appeal.

Now I want to look into abilities from Great People and see if they're providing Radial Appeal or Effective Appeal. That test is a bit harder to set up.

 

[isau]

Come to think of it... because of this, you can totally troll your neighbor who's trying to build resorts by building a bunch of mines across the border from them and stinking up their beautiful beaches. I hadn't thought of using weaponized mines before.

 

[Victoria]

I hadn't thought of using weaponized mines before.

Just be aware you cannot get a resort into the negatives... I have tried... they stop at 0... would be fun to get them negative

 

[Kryxal]

I don't see mines working very well ... they need hills, and you probably have already built them. What may work is making a point of clear-cutting any woods next to them.

 

[Victoria]

I don't see mines working very well ... they need hills, and you probably have already built them. What may work is making a point of clear-cutting any woods next to them.

And getting Team America to get rid of the Eiffel Tower