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Breaking off war, taking tech = cheating?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Bonesy, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. Bonesy

    Bonesy Chieftain

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    I was reading somewhere in civ fanatics that breaking off war and taking tech is considered cheating. Is this so? I stopped doing it a week or so ago and it certainly makes the game tougher.

    Thanks for reading.
     
  2. Shirastro

    Shirastro The ruler of the Gnomes

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    No, if it can be done in the game without actually hacking it than it's not cheating.
    Just because some so called pro people decided that there is only one "proper" way of playing this game doesn't mean that's actually true.
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Don't know who claims that is cheating but it isn't anybody who knows the rules :).

    Unless someone was specifically denying that option to add challenge, but I don't remember any such thing.
     
  4. Bonesy

    Bonesy Chieftain

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    I can't quite recall where I read it but I think it was mentioned as abuse in a post written at least 4 years ago and probably in response to some sort of challenge. Maybe HOF games or GOTM. Either way, I'm going back to the old way.
     
  5. Ormur

    Ormur Prince

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    Isn't the game mostly won through abuse at the higher levels? That's how you win against a stupid AI with massive bonuses.
     
  6. mtr12

    mtr12 Prince

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    No, it's strategic. Otherwise I would just kill people outright. Instead, I beat them up, take a tech, and kill them 10 turns later.
     
  7. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    There's "abuse" and then "abuse".

    The former is where you exploit something to gain an unfair advantage. For example, continuous anarchy to prevent strikes when going for domination.

    The latter is where you take advantage of something. That the AI is willing to pay you 11 gpt for that extra corn you have and that he doesn't need is not an exploit, it's simply taking advantage of game mechanics.

    I would only consider the hardest of deity games impossible to win without some exploits.
     
  8. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

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    It's funny to see the claims that Deity games are often won by abuse.
    At the same time, how often do i see lower diff. games being played where helpless AIs are rushed, Riflemen "rushes" etc etc. ;)

    There is still a big difference, when i play Deity i rarely have games where there is not some form of pressure or need to hurry up. I don't see how it compares to...umm...Praets on Noble?
     
  9. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    4 years ago could be around that time when I admitted that my attacks revolve around defending at one city point, and allowing the AI to suicide itself against me before I capture everything else free.

    One of the Firaxis developers jumped in on my case and accused that of blatantly cheating... since this tactic was EXPLOITING limits of AI thinking.

    My response IIRC was to stop making your AI so f*cking stupid.

    Fiaxis reponse to that was.. and always has been.. to simply just add more AI cheats.
     
  10. OneLeggedRhino

    OneLeggedRhino King

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    It's a single player game. How does cheating even apply? Do what makes the game fun for you.

    There's only one tactic that I know of that's widely considered cheating: Aggressive trade subsidies. Basically, you gift the AI a bunch of GPT, then trade them a resource for all of it. (You can get like 50 GPT this way). Then after 10 turns, you turn off your GPT gift, and they'll wreck their economy to keep giving you gold for the resource.

    Unless your tactic is on that level -- making your tech rate super fast while taking an AI out of the game, and you can do it to every AI for an easy win -- it's probably not considered cheating.
     
  11. Um the Muse

    Um the Muse King

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    The aggressive trading exploit above doesn't work anymore, as far as I know. Now the AI readjust the amount of GPT immediately.

    I think we can safely say that saving and reloading a bunch to get what we want from a goody hut or opening world builder are "legal" forms of cheating.

    I don't think accepting a tribute to end a war should count as cheating, though. It'd be totally unrealistic if there was no way for a losing civ to make peace. That's just stupid, no offense.
     
  12. Ormur

    Ormur Prince

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    I take advantage of a lot of AI stupidity playing at Emperor. I imagine the difference between me and Deity players is that I'm sloppier at it and that I don't know all the tricks (plus of course managing my own empire).

    It's never really cheating but if the mechanics taken advantage of seriously distort the game then maybe they should be changed. I don't think AI's giving techs counts as such. At least you have to beat the AI first.
     
  13. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    It's about as cheating as manually controlling your workers. :lol:
     
  14. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    :lol:, spot on.
     
  15. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    Sooo because it's more or less needed on some situations on deity, and it is abusive to the bad AI it must be cheating! That's like saying working stealing then killing their scout is cheating.
     
  16. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    What? Cheating? No way.
    You are getting extra - diplo modifiers with friends of that AI for declaring twice. The AI in question might sign a DP in those 10 turns. He can trade his techs away to whoever he wants.
    It has downsides too. It doesn't abuse something. That's not what I call cheating, that's what I call playing the game in a smart way.
     
  17. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    Absolutely, it's not cheating at all. The AI can and will do it as well. It's all part of the war/peace question. If that's cheating, then so is taking a vassal and directing his research. Or adopting religions based on diplomatic considerations unlike the AI's hit or miss approach.
     

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