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Brennus/Carth. UU: what's the point?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by The Lardossen, Aug 1, 2006.

  1. Bongo-Bongo

    Bongo-Bongo The Master

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    The Numidian Cavalry is an excellent UU.

    The bonus it receives against Melee units more then makes up for the loss in strength. It makes an excellent unit to clear the path of enemies, allowing your main city attacking units to have clear path to the city you wish to attack.

    The Gallic Warrior does seem a little useless however. I've not played as the Celts yet, but it does seem very underpowered for a UU. Even the Jaguar seems better on paper because at least that requires no resources and is cheap to build.
     
  2. The Lardossen

    The Lardossen Warlord

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    Okay, but you're wasting too much resources on researching for it. You'll need five techs, and the last one's an expensive one, to get it. And all after you've researched BW and maybe Mysticism. Need roads too.

    So that's eight techs before you can put them into use. Two are otherwise wasted techs till much later. And you'll need some techs that will finance your REX'ed empire too. Those will come in late by the amount of research you need for mathematics....
     
  3. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    @mahatmajon hmm, ok. First, I want to state that I personally have not yet been able to purchase warlords and test it. The Gallic Swordsman doesn't lose its city-attacking abilities, thus it should be possible to up him first with the Guerilla II and III and then at least with CR I (Brennus is charismatic). So, you could easily get to the enemy cities unbeaten on hills and then you have your city-attack abilities plus a hill city loses its tile defense advantage due to the attack ability of Guerilla III. Alternatively, you could only give him Guerilla II for the movement which would lose you only one promotion.

    I don't know, it's just my theoretical thoughts...

    mitsho
     
  4. dh_epic

    dh_epic Cold War Veteran

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    Numidian Cavalry has a hard time being stopped by its usual counter -- the spearman. But it IS weaker at taking cities, so it still has a weakness. This is actually a unit where it's unique ability gives it a totally new function (field combat, rather than city invasion).
     
  5. PugFugly

    PugFugly Chieftain

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    What is Guerilla III? Is it new to Warlords?
    I didn't see any mention of new promotions in the overview.
     
  6. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Guerilla III gives you a bonus to attacks on hills. It is new to warlords and mentioned in a few lists that go into detail. As it isn't a gamebreaking feature, it's not "on the package" (big talk around it ... ;)).

    m
     
  7. Mr. Do

    Mr. Do Emperor

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    Indeed... I was playing as the Celts earlier, and building their UU and their UB just got me thinking, "This is the most pointless thing ever".
     
  8. TrailblazingScot

    TrailblazingScot I was kittenOFchaos

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    The Celts UU isn't much better than a normal swordsman, a very ordinary UU. Their UB is pretty good, making turbo longbows and crossbows easily which can mean and interestingly upgraded force...

    I hope a patch will modify the Celt UU to be able to get a double hills upgrade from the Dun, it'd make it worthwhile, at present it blows.
     
  9. Thalatta

    Thalatta Imperialistic

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    You're right...they'd be much better if they started with Combat I as well...oh well. I guess they're just at their best on rocky maps...:p
     
  10. Gherald

    Gherald Prince

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    Celtic UU and UB are almost completely useless. They are clearly the worst in the game, even going beyond the Seal and the Mall in irrelevancy.
     
  11. TrailblazingScot

    TrailblazingScot I was kittenOFchaos

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    A swordsman ain't useless, so one with Guerrila one ain't useless and having archery units easily up to Guerrila II via the Dun isn't useless as it confers a useful defensive bonus and movement bonus.

    The UB is good compared to the other UBs, but the UU is ordinary, but at least, unlike the Americans you'll get to use it for sure.
     
  12. Eternalsteelfan

    Eternalsteelfan Prince

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    Gallic warriors aren't too bad. In hills they are untouchable and with Guerilla II they can get double movement in hills. It's like cavalry with defensive bonuses so long you are in hills, I don't see a problem with that.
     
  13. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well what they really need to do for the Celts to be worthwhile is to revamp Guerilla (to make It worthwhile) [and apply the same thing to Woodsman]

    I
    +25% Defense
    +10% Offense

    II
    +15% Defense
    +15% Offense
    Movement bonus

    III
    +10% Defense
    +25% Offense

    That would make it very useful (even though it is very limited)
    [plus the Jag could be made more Generically acceptable by giving it Free Woodsman I instead of the Jungle Bonus]
     
  14. Jaca

    Jaca Warlord

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    @Krikkitone: interesting points. Seems to make good very sense.

    Jaca
     
  15. Gherald

    Gherald Prince

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    I agree, krikki
     
  16. The Lardossen

    The Lardossen Warlord

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    I doesn't even suck enough to be worthwile discussing?

    Nice Celts thread, though :D
     
  17. Neo Guderian

    Neo Guderian Panzerarmee General

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    The pedia doesnt give any hint as to why the creators endowed this situational promo to the celtic UU.

    It also appears that the Celts is inclusive of the Guals from the description in the pedia. Thus, the history of Gual might come in handy. Of this I am not an expert. Only knowing what I have picked up here and there.

    If I recall my history correctly, the only historical account that links hills and Gual was when Julius Caesar besieged Alesia in the 50's bc. The Guals lost that battle after having the clear advantage in numbers and initiative.

    If I had created the Celtic UU I would have probably given them some sort of Frenzy attack (since a new promo was included for them).

    At the very least Woodsman would have been more suitable than Guerilla as the Celtic people's reverred the forests as being sacred places. Just look at what happened in Tuetoberg Forest when Varus's column was anihilated by german barbarians (who were not really celts but could be lumped in the same general culture)

    Whew, that was winded.
     
  18. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

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    If you consider Greeks and Romans the same culture, you can clump Celts and Germanic tribes. In any case, it's probably because of the Jaguar.

    And people ripping on the UB and UU, IMO, are off-base. They're both actually fairly effective.

    Oh, and Krikki...you should make a mod with those changes! I'd download it in a heart-beat!
     
  19. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

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    The attack/defense bonuses are easy to edit. In Assets\XML\Units under CIV4PromotionInfos.xml just search for GUERILLA. The numbers you want to change are under iHillsAttack and iHillsDefense.
     
  20. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

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    Just another question...what would I type in to find the Jaguar and give it a free woodsman 1? 'Cause I'll definitely do it...I just could never make sense of the XML or find the units I was looking for...
     

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