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Brexit Thread III - How to instantly polarise your country without even trying

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Arakhor, Oct 26, 2017.

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  1. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    The campaign would have been different, he's right about that much...but given how Trump actually won by using that Cambridge Analytica company to sway just over 100,000 voters in the exact states he needed to win to win the electoral college, I think I'm pretty safe asserting that there's no way in hell Trump could have won a popular vote election.

    But that isn't really the point. The baby float of Trump means that Londoners....don't like Trump, not that they want to have power over US elections. Not that it would matter even if they did want to, really.
     
  2. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    Well your not understanding is indeed very understandable, there is so much linkage generally put about and in the minds of the many people who did not vote for Brexit
    or for the Donald that the peoples and thir motivations for voting for Brexit or for The Donald, are, setting aside their different UK and USA nationalities, much the same thing.
     
  3. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    Well now that is a good argument at last. And I am not going to debate it in a brexit thread.



    I suspect their motivations vary. I am convinced that some supporters of the UK membership of the EEC,
    EC, EU were driven by little more than a busy body emotional desire to tell those continentals what to do.

    In these days of the Internet and after the defeat of old style socialism; there are a lot of people, particularly
    those in the anywhere, rather than in the somewhere, camp who believe that laws should be more or less
    standardised worldwide on for example abortion, diet, divorce, homosexuality, trans rights etc.
     
  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    It seems more like you link the opposition to Trump with the opposition to Brexit, really. And I'm afraid I am among those who will tell you that I think the reasons people voted for Brexit and the reasons people voted for Trump are somewhat similar.

    Well that seems largely true, although I'm not sure I would describe it as a "busybody desire." It's one of the ironies of Brexit that the UK probably had outsize influence on the EU yet the EU was portrayed as this giant oppressive thing...

    I'm afraid I'm really in the "one world or none" school of thought here...at heart I'm an internationalist...
     
  5. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Do you not believe this? That in the perfect world whether you have the right to live your life with the person you love regardless of their relative sex should depend on where in the world you were born?
     
  6. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    I know; I have followed the logic of your posts over the years.

    My main concern is that trying to standardise things worldwise faster than normal by universal
    law would result in standardisation being established in a de facto irrevocable way.

    Even if the standardisation was on the right track in the first place, the inertia in various sunk
    costs resultant from a standardised world would then likely prevent further improvements.
     
  7. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    well.... who is next ?


    May stated to have a list with 10 new talents, ready for a move to join her

    Has the 1922 committee already a list of 48 letters of MP's to tackle her position ?
    Was the resignation of Johnson planned and orchestrated with Davis, to affect the story of May in the Commons meeting, or only because he got inside info that the 48 letters were there ?

    Had May planned that crunch for this moment ?
    An all or nothing moment
    It was almost bound to happen anyway.

    The EU is since before Chequers at a very low profile....
    my guess is that May informed them last week very well on what she had in mind to do for the several likekely branching scenario's, she needing the room to handle her domestic fight without outside effects.

    If it comes to the confidence vote, 1-2 days needed after the 48 letters are public, will more ministers resign for the political disarray effect on the confidence votes ?

    Interesting week it could be
     
  8. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Moaner Lisa

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    The worry is how willingly you might push towards "none" if you can't get "one".

    Edit: Also (to the thread in general), how is any sort of broader discussion of the EU "not germane" to this topic, but somehow two pages of discussing a Trump-shaped helium balloon is considered to be on-topic?
     
  9. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    I'll wait for the bloke to bring the official phrase book to see what "faster than normal
    by universal law" means, if anything.

    IMO it's all too nebulous to be of any use, and there are many counter-examples.
    The business models and practices of academic publishers are moribund, and they
    were "standardised" over a long time. Major players are now being slaughtered by
    outlets like Sci-hub and Library Genesis.

    The whole notion of patents and other forms of IP developed slowly, but they are
    now outdated and, arguably, susceptible to improvements. Moreover, not everybody
    accepts that there should be any IP for many products, services and inventions.
    Some people and political systems just don't believe in that crap and ignore it.
     
  10. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    I am not giving this government much of a future either, but who exactly is supposed to negotiate with the EU in the meantime? Are they just going to let the EU write the deal themselves and present it signature-ready to the new government?

    Conspiracy theory: Is this all the setup for the post-modern, British version of the Dolchstoßlegende? "Brexit was going fine and Britain was on its way to a superpower again when (insert name of new government here) stabbed the valiant Brexiteers in the back by signing the shameful and disastrous treaty that became the Brexit agreement."
     
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  11. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    That's going to happen, but it was always going to happen regardless of Brexit's final form or even if there wasn't a "new" government in the first place. This is just bog-standard incompetence.
     
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  12. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    Bigger conspiracy theory: Argentinians are reported to be making moves around
    the Malvinas, and Theresa May starts appearing in public with a brand-new,
    Thatcher-like outfit and handbag.
     
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  13. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Yeah, the guy who's for unilateral nuclear disarmament is clearly pushing toward "none"...tell me Manfred, what's your position on the UK's nuclear arsenal?
     
  14. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Moaner Lisa

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    Well I would tell you but unfortunately I have to go and fetch my goalposts back because someone moved them waaay over there.

    To be honest I have no strong feelings on the UK's nuclear arsenal either way, however I am rather against the mass deportation of people I don't like to Antarctica and leaving them to die, so I'll take that as a small win.
     
  15. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    The goalposts aren't being moved, you just evidently responded to my post without having any idea what I was talking about. "One world or none" was the title of a propaganda production by the US government on the power of the atomic bomb...and generally refers to the idea that dividing the world into nations is unworkable in the age of atomic weapons.
    There is a popular quote from Stuart Chase:
    "Traditional nationalism cannot survive the fissioning of the atom. One world or none."
     
  16. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    Moderator Action: As another reminder: talking about UK-US relations in general really should also move to its own thread - or just create a general British politics thread, but please stick to something atleast related to the topic of this thread.
     
  17. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    The prospect of a future King Louis could help heal wounds with the French over
    Brexit. I'm not sure that "Sun King" would be the most appropriate nickname for
    the newest little parasite.
     
  18. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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  19. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    I'm thinking now is as good a time as any to make a third iteration of this thread, btw: May seems to have decided on a position, two of the biggest brexiteers are out, and while May claims there might be no deal now, I don't think she means it.
     
  20. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    Are you suggesting that we have soft and hard non-Brexit threads?
     
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