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Brexit Thread V - The Final Countdown?!?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by uppi, Dec 12, 2018.

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  1. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    I see now that the tariff list is already public.
    That tariff list is set for the coming 12 months.

    87% of the tariffs is set on zero. Goal is to minimise cost increases to consumers (and industry needing B2B imports).
    Some tariffs regarding food are lowered to 50-60% of the EU WTO tariff list. A mix between farmers interests and consumers interests.
    The Confederation of British Industry is not happy because it exposes domestic economy from global cheap imports.
    For the Irish border this temporary list sets all tariffs on products from Ireland at zero %. This means no UK border controls are necessary during these 12 months.
    But it means also that custom checks will be made between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, bringing the border in the Irish Sea.
    Ireland a new smugglers paradise ?
     
  2. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    I dont think the UK has prepared UK arigicultiural industry to transfer from EU protectionist economy to a open free trade economy
    Though it will probably be the least worst option
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  3. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    So, no blame whatsoever for the ludicrous expectations raised by Leave politicians, the lack of negotiation by Brexit secretaries and the PM's ridiculous attempts to keep Parliament out of the process for months and years on end? Everything wrong with Brexit is Remain politicians, right?
     
  4. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    yes
    There is not much choice there I think.

    On that EU protection of agricultural
    I see that as an UBI for farmers
    Before the big global trade, from the very start of the EU, the buying power of corporate was bigger than the selling power of the individual farmers, driving them down to bare existence levels.
    This also affected the original strategic EU goal to be self supporting in food, because yield and volume improvements were needed (needing many capital investments).
    When in the decades thereafter the demand on better food and animal standards increased, increasing cost of production, the EU did increase those standards by regulations on farmers, and could do so because of that UBI.
    With the coming Green New Deal Wave, adding sustainability of top soil, bio organic etc on top, this farmer UBI will become even more important.

    Nationalising agriculture, and converting by buy out programs farmers into civil servants would not work I guess because of the deplorable working standards farmers have (overtime premiums etc, etc in civil servant culture too expensive).

    So it will stick as UBI I guess, with a big overhaul to get it more effective also towards a green agricultural economy.
    The customer getting high food, animal and Climate standards.
    Foreign exporters getting non-tariff trade barriers.

    The technical challenge for the EU to be so good in agricultural innovation that it can (almost) match the cost price of foreign agriculture at much higher standards.
    The amount of R&D, both the R as the D is high in the EU since the 50ies.
    Crop cultivation improvements (not GM), soil improvements (not only chemical fertilisers), controled growing environments (new generation greenhouses with low water and topsoil footprint). The potential still untapped there is relatively high.
    4 liter total water consumption per kilo tomatoes grown is for example achievable in mass production.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  5. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    Thank you.


    This is as I expected. Having customs officials check goods internally is a sovereign decision,
    but signing a treaty with other countries that requires one's country to do that violates sovereign integrity.


    As before.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  6. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    The only expectation most of us who voted Leave had was that the UK would Leave the EU.

    If you think we voted Leave, on the basis of believing each and every gung ho utterance
    by the more colourful, (and therefore reported on by the media), political characters such
    as "sunlit uplands", a trade deal with the EC would be "easy-peasy", "they need us
    more than we need them", "£350 m/week for NHS"; Britain would be "great" with free
    trade again, you are greatly mistaken. And some such as Empire2 were Remainer inventions.

    Still having bought into Project Fear and Smear, I can understand why
    Remainers assume Leavers are equally gullible.
     
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  7. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    the like for this comment !

    Was that really so in the past ?

    We had always a lot of butter smuggling with Belgium going on. And much more.
    The BeNeLux was a very pragmatical decision as well.
     
  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    And yet, when provided with a deal that would enable us to leave the EU, you and other Leavers rage about how it's not a deal and that it's a humiliation, yadda yadda. Seems like you really did believe then, even as you do now.
     
  9. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    I tried to read that deal. It was awful. Tedously legalistic Endless references to EU documents. No way was it Theresa May's deal.

    The way I see it; she was just fronting for the EU. Theresa May and Martin Barnier being like a Laurel and Hardy or an Abbott and Costello act.

    And why should I ignore the Attorney General's damming assessment.
     
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  10. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    When/If Ireland decides to TAKE BACK CONTROL ?
    Is that ok with you ?
     
  11. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    This may come as a surprise to you, Edward, but legal documents are generally "tediously legalistic". What's more, if you really expect us to believe that you believe that Theresa May was a fifth column for the evil EU, then no, I do not believe you are only as gullible as the average Remain voter.
     
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  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Parapraxis? :)

    May is stuborn. Then again she wouldnt be allowed to go for a norway-type deal, so its not like she could do much else. Why is she against a full hard brexit?
     
  13. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Given that she is (still) Prime Minister, I have no doubt that she of all people is aware of that would mean for the country, despite her clear antipathy for foreigners and all that they entail.

    In related news, the DUP MP Nigel Dodds is now calling for a special Northern Irish arrangement to save them from zero tariffs imports from Ireland and (presumably) custom checks somewhere within the Irish Sea. I do wonder what the people of Northern Ireland think about their (almost) criminally useless representatives currently wasting space in Westminster.
     
  14. Silurian

    Silurian Warlord

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    What documents do you think the Treaty will refer too. The EU has been making regulations on our behalf for forty years, we do not have our regulations covering many areas. Making our own regulations was one of the arguments for Brexit and people should not be surprised that many of the regulations are in fact EU documents.

    The EU has regulations on the transport and storage of medical isotopes ( I assume). It is far easier to use the existing regulations for the next few years rather than consult about our own draft regulations, have separate negotiations about any changes we wish to make and then produce our own regulations about the transport and storage of EU supplied medical isotopes.

    I do not know how many pages all those documents added up to but if someone said a million pages I would not be surprised. How would we have managed to consult and agree changes, if we wished, amongst ourselves let alone with the EU over the past two years.
     
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  15. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    yeah
    I guess Nigel Dodds is aware of the Bible book 2 Samuel 11: 14-17, spelling out the age-old recipe how you get rid of someone that is annoying you, and not doing as told.

    14 And it came to pass in the morning, that David wrote a letter to Joab, and sent it by the hand of Uriah [the Hittite].
    15 And he wrote in the letter, saying, Set ye Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retire ye from him, that he may be smitten, and die
    16 And it came to pass, when Joab observed the city, that he assigned Uriah unto a place where he knew that valiant men were.
    17 And the men of the city went out, and fought with Joab: and there fell some of the people of the servants of David; and Uriah the Hittite died also.

     
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  16. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Same question that inno failed to answer : what were the "unreasonable" requirements of the EU that weren't simply inherent to "well, you're not in the EU anymore so you can't benefit from being in the EU" (which is normally, you know, the entire point) ?

    I'm still waiting.
     
  17. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    The UK represented by May wants more benefits from the EU than Japan or Canada or etc
    Why ?
    "Because we helped building up the EU... we liberalised it, we pressed for the East-European countries to join... we are entitled to privileges that Canada, Japan, etc do not have"
     
  18. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Heres a few https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/ten-rulings-european-court-justice-affected-everyday-life/

    Equal pay for work of equal value was the result of an ECJ judgement and I wouldn't agree that Working Time Directives etc haven't had benefits.
     
  19. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    I'm was attempting to explain to you that while your question might make sense directed at the likes of May, it does not make sense directed at the many people who all along defended an exit without any "exit agreement" as the default choice. If the process is about doing a new deal with the EU it only makes sense to sign a treaty when both parties are convinced they«'ll benefit, which was obviously not the case given the preconditions didn't overlap.

    The examples were about the supposed threat of hunger (stockpiling of food, yous said) or whatever in the absence of a trade deal. It's scaremongering, which becomes obvious when you compare the UK to countries in much, much worse situations.

    There has been enough scaremongering already. No people should enter into long-term treaties based on scaremongering. And this Withdrawal Agreement was as long-term as they came, with the famous "backstop". That and that alone sunk it.

    Ironic, isn't it, that something the EU diplomats involved allege is temporary but necessary to prevent problems with Ireland is actually what will stop a temporary agreement to prevent problems with Ireland from being done! And if they hadn't made the "backstop" permanent then this temporary agreement would already be approved and its alleged purpose would be actually served.

    The truth is, of course, that the allegation is false and Ireland is but a tool.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  20. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    You know, grandly saying "the truth is" rather than "I believe" doesn't actually make your allegation true.
     
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