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Brexit Thread VI - The Knockout Phase ?!?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hrothbern, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    Anne Widdecombe is perfect as Zumba work outs trainer for this bunch of dedicated Tory members, listening to Boris:


    Schermopname (3142).png
     
  2. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Some of those people must be 300 years old...
     
  3. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    including selective amnesia
     
  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Let's not pretend that plenty of Tories aren't antisemites themselves please.
     
  5. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Warlord

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    Hmm, I wonder why the other 55% are deluded about that one.
     
  6. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    "I'm not a Nazi, I just believe in the same demented conspiracy theories as Nazis do"
     
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  7. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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  8. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    I am unclear whether by "concluded" means that the trade deal has also been formally "ratified" by all parties.
     
  9. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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    It's not. It has to be approved by all countries. Democracy and all that. And this trade deal is not to advantageous to farmers(as opposed to th recent japanese one), so we'll have to see what happens. I feel farmers have a strong lobby.
     
  10. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    up yours!
    ‘Sometime in the future: President Trump sits in his marble jacuzzi, talking via video link to Prime Minister Boris Johnson in his ball pool’

    Aaaaahhhh :run:
    Whose farmers?
     
  11. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    I assume EU27 farmers.
     
  12. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    up yours!
    Ah. because I live on the other side of the EU-Mercosur deal and members of the former government, who spent a mere 12 years in office out of the total 20 that negotiating the deal took, are now decrying the new deal on every medium they can find.
     
  13. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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    Yeah. They fear cheap beef from Brazil.

    I wonder about the quality and production methods though. Because of TTIP and Brexit we have heard of the hormone filled beef from the US. I can't imagine south America is any better. I assume it's covered in the details of the deals. Hopefully politicians looks into it before legislating.
     
  14. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    The short term politics within the EU will be full of farmer lobbies, Green lobbies (against Brazilian pesticides and tropical forest destruction) and the current populist right attempts to control the agricultural Commision for their rural conservative and Climate Sceptic voter base (and considering the massive amount of money plowed though that Commision an enormous big corruption and fraud potential).
    Who knows what happens in the final ratification hurdles of the EU parliament and the separate member parliaments ?

    However... farmers can lobby strong for their interests as much as they can and did the last 60 years in the EU... they cannot escape the changes that are needed for a lower CO2 footprint.


    I think that the long term processes and considerations are as follows:
    * With Climate considerations, the CO2 and Methane footprint, the areas to reforest... meat, and especially beef (from a ruminant: Methane !), should have a diminishing role as tasty protein staple food.

    * Radical laws, taxes and regulations... to decrease natural meat consumption will be very very unpopular, because the sense of urgency as of now is not wide spread enough, and not fit to achieve above target.


    Whether the EU or a stand alone UK.... the basic issue is the same as the more technical renewable energy supply: we are heading into a massive transformation process.
    The difference being that the more technical renewable energy transformation will be less disturbing within our direct lives: other power plant, electric cars, etc: all on a silver plate... we do not need really to change our own lives.

    With Climate & Agriculture-Food we will be heading to many farmers being transformed over a number of decades into bio-organic farmers and natural reserve caretakers.
    (almost all the big animal live-stock farmers. Note: currently 75% of the crop farmers supply the current ceral/soja demand of small and big livestock).
    This farmer change cannot be done drastically because too unpopular... because the sense of urgency for Climate is not yet strong enough.

    Now... if you look at the amount of farmers in Europe over time, you can see that even in the last 30 years the amount decreased to roughly 60% in all EU countries (population growth in same period was 10%).
    => Just as with renewable energy, 2050 the zero CO2 target date... we can use the next 30 years to transform part of the farmers to bio-organic and natural reserve caretakers.
    To get this process as lest disruptive as possible it has to be slow and steady, also following the amount of farmers retiring and (new) farmers trained in bio-organic and natural reserve caretakers.

    The speed at which the popular opinion changes to eat less beef, less meat... the speed at which meat-like satisfying replacements are developed and mass scale industrialised... are both unknown, and most likely NOT a slow steady process.
    It could take another 15 years before things get really moving there. It could be that once it happens, it will be a rapid to a next lower level. A big "don't know" on which you cannot base governmental policies.

    From the EU interests... it is therefore essential that we decouple the consumer market driven relation between EU meat production and EU meat consumption.

    When we are going to import more meat and livestock food from for example Mercosur, we kind of outsource part of that timing issue to the Mercosur countries, and can here go slow and steady into that transformation process, that is politically so complicated with many obstruction risks and will cost also a lot of money from buying land increasing pressure on national budgets (inviting to go slow and steady from budgetary reasons).
    A bad deal for Mercosur ?
    Mercosur will have significant beef exports during decades as long as EU consumers eat more meat than its domestic meat production. And at the end of the day that export will only diminish, dry up, when EU consumers decide to stop eating meat of non-bio-organic sources.


    Here a link to information on farmers as % labor force: https://ourworldindata.org/employment-in-agriculture

    Here a link to an article on a Finnish company able to make proteins from water, CO2, electricity and trace minerals: The dry product being 50-60% protein and the rest carbohydrates and fat.
    https://www.theguardian.com/comment...d-sci-fi-diet-planet-food-animals-environment
    And from this follow up article they estimate they can produce it at Euro 5.00 per kilo. This is at the same protein weight percentage as meat (20-25%) around Euro 2.00 per kilo.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...l-50m-meals-electricity-water-air-solar-foods

    Here a long speech of UK Minister Michael Gove on his Countryside Stewartship and environment & bio-organics for farmers.
    A bit too fluffy to my taste and all kinds of free market politics and "take back control" from EU agricultural subsidising mixed through it.
    But blowing away all that smoke and fluff... the basics is aimed at a similar transformation for farmers. Only more disruptive as far I can judge it.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/farming-for-the-next-generation
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  15. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    I just read it.

    Problem is by trying to cover everything, he covers nothing.

    And there he goes in his flight of fantasy about being world-leading.
     
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  16. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    When will the Boris vs Hunt clown election take place?
     
  17. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    If Bojo wins, the next thread should be called, The Circus Brexitus.
     
  18. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    According to this: https://news.sky.com/story/date-set-for-handover-of-power-to-jeremy-hunt-or-boris-johnson-11748947
    The leadership ballot closes at 17.00 at July 22
    On July 23 the new leader of the Tory party will be named

    The article also states:
    However
    You can only become PM if you command the majority of the Parliament !

    Is this the case ?
    If not the current PM May can decide NOT to propose Boris as PM successor to the Queen, and the Queen can decide NOT to accept Boris as PM successor.

    I already mentioned this possibly weird situation last week in a post

    Here an article of the Guardian on it from today:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ght-never-enter-no-10-if-mps-withdraw-support
     
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  19. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I don't think that May can suggest any such thing - she resigned herself, didn't she? Wasn't the tory party rules re 1922 not allow for her party (trying again) kicking her out?
    I think the tories will rally behind their leader. If not, maybe some liberal democrats can help them, as is their habit.
     
  20. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Warlord

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    Yes it's definitely a conspiracy theory to think that "some areas" are not welcoming of non-Muslim people, even though that could include someone's front room or literally anything. Never mind the fact I personally know people who've found themselves in trouble just from being in the "wrong area" after dark. But sure this literally never happens anywhere ever and only Nazi's think otherwise (or fascists, or whatever your favourite all-encompassing label is this week).
     
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