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Brexit Thread VI - The Knockout Phase ?!?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hrothbern, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    up yours!
    Yes, this is in part true, but let's also add that the Brexiteers couldn't attack the City directly because they are the City.
     
  2. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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  3. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    As someone put it on Twitter, "When was the last time a British diplomat had to resign because he hurt the feelings of the EU president, thus making a working relationship untenable? But it's the EU whose jackboot we're under, right?"

    Or as Simon Schama said, "after this grovelling abasement before Trump I dont want to hear the word “sovereignty” EVER drop from the mouths of Brexiters".
     
    Yeekim and Sommerswerd like this.
  4. mitsho

    mitsho Chieftain

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    to be fair, Trump is a case sui generis. It's not because of the US they had to switch the ambassador, it was because the Donald is a petulant child. Making this as the end of the British Diplomatic Service is just hyperbolic in my mind. As soon as somebody copies Trumps behaviour and is succesful in recalling a British ambassador, then that's the end. Donald Trump being Donald Trump, no problem per se.

    Having not read the whole story, is this the end of the ambassadors career or will he just be sent to another country or back to homebase in London? It only is problematic if it's the first.
     
  5. Samson

    Samson Warlord

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    He was due to retire in December. I think this is the end of his career, but I am not sure that aspect of it is the most problematic. I think the main problems are:
    • The collapse of the coherence of government such that leaks such as this (and the one about Huawei from the intelligence briefing) can happen.
    • The lack of support for our Diplomatic Service from the top of the government.
     
  6. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    The Media, politicians and public pretty much base the EU on a daily basis, I also have no doubt that there is unflatterning but utterly frank diplomatic assesments provided by government officals
    But this leak however has place the offical stance of the UK in an embrassing light, which has on the surface been one of friendly allies.
    Resignation seens to be excessive, perhaps a tempoary recall to another position would have been better.

    Its not like the US Sectary of Defence, and State and others havent publicly called Trump a [censored] Moron.
     
  7. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    One aspect, the leaking to the pro-Brexit media, is breaking the code of a civil service department.
    Just like Trump trying to break the code of the FBI.

    Especially a diplomatic civil service needs its code of confidentiality.
    Whatever the differences in personal opinions between the staff... the code should prevail.

    It's a bit like the Philby affair.
    Everybody knew that communist sympathies were widespread in Cambridge and intellectual circles of the 30ies.
    Foreign Affairs ofc recruiting from that "good old boys" pool.
    That some actually went so far to really execute those personal synpathies by being a spy... and by that breaking the code... was shattering. Who could now be trusted anymore ?

    Replace communism with Brexitism... and you have the same situation: who can be trusted anymore when the code is not strong enough ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  8. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    That is not the way I see it.

    Devolution to the Scottish Parliament (and Welsh Assembly) transferred decision
    making and accountability from London to Edinburgh (and to Cardiff).

    Upgrading the UK's EEC membership to EU Membership transferred decision
    making power from London to less accountable EU institutions on the continent.

    I suspect that many people in Scotland appreciated devolution more than they noticed
    the loss of power to the EU, afterall neither London and Brussels are in Scotland..

    Whereas in England we don't really care about the Scots doing their own thing with
    devolution, but there was no compensation for the loss of self deteminism to the EU.

    Many Scots may have felt that if they remained in the EU they would see more
    power transfer from London to Scotland, by playing off London v Brussels.
    But that game stops if there is a proper break between the UK and the EU.

    Therefore both past loss and future loss (or gain) of self determination due to EU are perceived
    as more significant in England than in Scotland, hence more voted Leave in England.

    Remainers do like to explain away losing the 2016 referendum vote by arguing that it was
    not about leaving the EU e.g. it was about austerity or about voting against the conservatives,
    modernisation etc and now you add voting against London to the diversary reasons list.
     
  9. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    I could quite imagine that if we hadn't had six years of austerity, the referendum result might have been quite different. Of course, it might never have happened at all if we'd had a braver PM in the first place, but Tories are hardly elected for their good qualities.
     
  10. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    Show me the proof that this was a "Brexitism" leak. Or are you pulling a McCarthy, Brexit=bad and those doing bad things must be communistsbrexiteers?
     
  11. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Regardless of Trump's reaction being typical Trump, any nation would have asked for this diplomat to be replaced after such a leak about another country's leadership.
     
  12. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    You're fond of conspiracy theories. This one isn't even a stretch.
     
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  13. Samson

    Samson Warlord

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    There is no proof, yet. However there is only one issue that is tearing this country apart, and it would be quite surprising if that did not affect the decisions of the leaker at least a bit. It is much more dominant in the current political climate than the communism / capitalism divide in the 50s.
     
  14. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

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    up yours!
    Yes, but it is a bad sign for the UK (regardless of the infantility of Mr. Trump saying ‘you stupid!’) that their diplomatic service is such a shambles that this kind of thing gets leaked.
     
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  15. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    UK has a plan B ?
    This is hes own Hard Brexit plan, which is suppose to guarantee trade with the EU with no deal
    Plan C is reapply to rejoin the EU

     
  16. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    Just call it Plan F. As in the UK's totally ****ed.
     
  17. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    Hadn't noticed you were a fan also, you should update me on how those conspiracy theories go. Say, has the UK presented any credible evidence for its claims about the Skripal case, do do you just have a huge faith in Theresa May and Boris Johnson's word?
     
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  18. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Mate you got an irony deficiency there....
     
  19. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Or about Iran being behind the attack on the japanese tanker, moreover when the japanese delegation was visiting Iran :lol:
     
  20. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    I don't recall expressing any opinion on the Skripal case. You should probably remember that "conspiracy theory" doesn't mean "anything I disagree with".
     
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