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Brexit Thread VI - The Knockout Phase ?!?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hrothbern, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    yes
    Fence D-Day is near.
    Considering the developed mood of Momentum, I think committing to a Brexit deal by Corbyn is only possible when attaching the confirmatory referendum to it.

    Officially the Labour party had in its 2017 Manifesto "to accept the referendum result" and decided officially at the Labour conference in September 2018 that confirmatory referendum as "an option" (under high pressure of Momentum to commit unconditionally to a confirmatory referendum).
    Here BTW the Brexit text of the Manifesto:

    The Brexit secretary Stephen Barclay commented on the situation of Corbyn:
    yes
    I think both May as Corbyn want to avoid a no-deal and want to avoid being blamed for an accidental no-deal. By lack of other choices both need an extension and "something" that can justify that (whether they state that in those words or not)
    And both May as Corbyn seek the best comparative position for a future election of their party, to the benefit of their faction as well. Damaging the other party more than your own party to some or more degree viable.

    Complex
     
  2. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Working with May is a trap. Corbyn should decline and let the Tories be blamed for all the following mess.
     
  3. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Sure it is a trap

    The oh so furious and vocal on that Brexiteer Ministers did not resign after that long Cabinet meeting yesterday.

    But I think Corbyn cannot just decline the talks... and cannot afterwards when it would fail just say "no common ground".
     
  4. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Imo the worst thing in this is that apparently the blairite & tories will remain secure and not risk a Corbyn gov. Thank the blairite clowns and goons.
     
  5. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    I know that it's popular to blame Labour for everything, but many of the sitting Tory MPs will vote against a new election to avoid losing their meal ticket.
     
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  6. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Same with all the blairite mps.
     
  7. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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  8. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    Why? I don't get why this is so bad. There is still the giant loophole in the form of a no-confidence motion.
     
  9. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    It reduces the power of the monarch (president) to indicate that if this Parliament is determined to continue to be stupid, she (or he) can
    simply dissolve it, thereby requiring its members to justify themselves to the voters in their constituency again before returning.
     
  10. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Hm, is that actually so? I mean would HM King Charles III be bounded by this law if he would try to dissolve parliament? (not that i think there is any chance of that happening).
     
  11. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    It shouldn't be in the power of the head of state anyway (see Germany, early 1930ies).
     
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  12. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    In my opinion that might be more likely than you might think, although he might first need to get himself appointed as regent.

    Oh yes, and comparing elderly President Hindenberg with elder Queen Elizabeth II.

    The thing is the UK Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011 was designed to reduce the power of the Prime Minister to surprise their opposition and allies,
    but in practice; it is resulting in a Prime Minister that has lost the confidence of the House remaining because the MPs are scared of an election.
     
  13. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Rather, FPTP should be fixed instead of (only) trying to remove a poor attempt at a fix for one of FPTPs flaws.
     
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  14. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    How would it change anything in the situation right now, if the prime minister still had the power to call elections on her whim? She still wouldn't call them. If she wanted elections right now, she would get them one way or another.

    If the House has lost confidence in her, the only thing they would have to do is pass a motion of no confidence.
     
  15. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    B
    O
    R
    I
    N
    G
     
  16. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    (1) The way it used to work was that:

    (a) if the Prime Minister lost the confidence of the House of Commons

    (b) His/her Majesty would look for an alternative leading MP to form a government (eg H MacMillan replacing A Eden).

    (c) If no alternative MP could be found capable of forming a goverment, HM would dissolve Parliament.


    (2) This has been replaced by two mechanisms:

    (a) if the Prime Minister lost the confidence of the House of Commons,

    (b) the majority Party elects a new leader (e.g. T May replacing D Cameron - OK he jumped - but that process applies)

    (c) Irrespective as to whether that leader can form a government, by default parliament continues until its five year term is up.


    They seem to want another extension, but that might be vetoed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/03/emmanuel-macron-britain-eu-france-president
     
  17. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    If the House has lost the confidence in the Prime Minister they can simply say so and they get a new election. If they refuse to say so, why should anybody else decide that this loss of confidence has occurred?


    The second short extension is nonsense and should be rejected by the EU - and probably will be. The only question is, whether May will be able to schedule a final "My deal or no deal" vote and what the outcome would be. That might have been her plan all along and the UK Parliament has proven to unable to stop her.
     
  18. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    Both France and Austria have said that they currently see no reason to grant a new extension, as nothing has changed in the UK Parliament.
     
  19. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    What Theresa May is doing is threatening the House of Commons with a Remain in the EU, and
    Remain in total uncertainty, until the House of Commons acquiesces to Martin Barnier's vassilage plan.
     
  20. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    The real problem is that nobody trusts May, but above that nobody wants her job. That's why the Parliament keeps voting down her proposition, but voting up her place as PM.
     
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