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Brexit Thread VI - The Knockout Phase ?!?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hrothbern, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Recall the eleatic story about the tortoise and Achilles. The growth rate of the eu's "assertive positioning" is always such that the end result stays the same.

    edit: and before Arakhor jumps in: Arak, the president of Cyprus already threatened the Uk with vetoing your deal with the eu, so it is rather on point, sorry old chap.
     
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  2. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    You are not old enough to see the change ;)
     
  3. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Wasn't it Macron who suggested that if one country decides to speak for all 27 now, whether the others like it or not, said country may well find karma coming to bite them later on in a different situation?
     
  4. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Total happens to be a french company. Not that i am of the view you have heard of any of this, just saying :p
     
  5. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    It's a bit quiet now around Kenneth Clarke, the most senior Tory MP there is now and Father of the House.
    He could be the next one of the old Tory line.
    But when... and how about the last man standing Hammond of the traditional Tory line ?
    Hammond intends to go more vocal now as I perceive the current situation.
    What kind of Tory core will be left after the implosion has finished.
     
  6. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    There doesn't seem to be much in common between Hammond and Heseltine. For starters Heseltine is one of the major tory vampires and at one point almost got to become pm. Hammond is just May's bot, that is more than a difference of magnitude. Hesel was known to be anti-brexit, nothing new there; though you may want to research his opinion on why Britain should stay in the eu - namely that if Britain leaves it will be like (ww2) Germany won. Too late for that scum safety-rail, though; the central head of the lernaean hydra's only place is below a rock.
     
  7. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    If there is a UK general election before Halloween.

    And if the Brexit party decides to generally compete in it.

    Remainers hope the Brexit party will compete against the conservatives, resulting in a labour
    government; if the Brexit party competes for all British seats at a UK general election.
    And that a Labour government would revoke A50, or extend and hold another referendum.

    However the Brexit party may decide not to stand in constituencies held by committed Leavers,
    instead targeting only those where they are competing against de facto Remainer candidates.

    That could result in a lot of Remainer conservatives being eliminated from Parliament.
     
  8. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    I think that is a good point.
    It is one of the bare bone tactical consequences of FPTP when the landscape does no longer exists out of mainly two parties. The other escape strongly regionally orientated pasrties like SNP, etc.
    In how far this Brexit party move can be explained to the more simplistic considerations of a voter base re "I want my vote" IDK. I have no feel for that for UK politics.
    For sure the campaign strategists haver their eyes on the district of some high profile MPs from all parties. Would be interesting to see how the districts of for example Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg will be attacked, etc.

    All people more than 2 inches to the right of Corbyn are Blairites or scum.This is not about purity but about the future landscape of the UK. Will the traditional core of the Tories stand their ground or not ? Will they move to the LibDems or not ?

    That Hesseltine wants the UK inside the EU as counterweight for Germany is sound geopolitical reasoning from UK perspective alomg traditional lines. France is relatively to the 60ies-70ies weakened too much, the former USSR satellites are now part of the EU and more connected economically with Germany than France, and the old backing of France, beginning with Italy (as old EU-6 member) has less and less weight.
    What Hesseltine does not say explicitly (on Germany he did) is that he sees that the EU will be less influenced by the UK free market culture and will continue in a stronger continental culture on standards than Tories like Hesseltine favor.
    (and a UK outside the EU will be a rule taker for many standards even as WTO, because the UK company's exports will have to adapt anyway, which bounces back to the UK)
    But Hesseltine is still a completely other political current than the Singapore buccaneers on the paroll of global corporate, or Farrage on the payroll of Putin.

    Hammond is imo not a May-bot but a Treasurer-bot.
    And such people are used to making pragmatical compromises with "realities". Trade Unions rather bargain with the Hammonds of this world than the Johnsons of this world. If Johnson would become PM and puts some Brexit yes-nodder in his place as Treasurer we will see some hilarical nonsense much to the detrimental of the UK population (as direct effect until it is clear thast or whether Labour can take over).

    If the Britannia Unchained buccaneers and adventurers like Johnson take control of the Tory party, we are truly back in the period of time of 1920 when the Labour party emerged and pushed the LibDems to the fringe of the FPTP system.
    What are we going to se now ?
    An emerging LibDems and Greens with the Tories to that fringe and some hectic battle between the Rees-Mogg faction and the Farrage faction on the right ?
     
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  9. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Hm, i knew ukip is desperate and all, but they have Sargon of Akkad as a candidate in the euro election?

    :rotfl:
    :rotfl:
    :rotfl:
     
  10. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Not just climate-change-denying, but also NHS-privatising, employment-regulation-stripping and so on.
     
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  11. Takhisis

    Takhisis ΑΛΗΘΩС ΑΝΕСΤΗ

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    up yours!
    Actually, there was one about two years earlier, which will be repeated if (when?) the UK leaves the EU.
     
  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Which one was that?
     
  13. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    I very much disagree with his politics, but I feel sympathetic to him on this particular point.

    As an ordinary person who has voted for individuals standing for different parties and different parties
    at local, national and EU level; I see nothing wrong in Michael Heseltime saying he would do the same.

    As the House of Lords is a UK level institution and part of the UK Parliament, the conservative whip
    should only be withdrawn if his support was clearly for a non conservative standing for the UK parliament.


    It is out of date thinking. The UK has about 1% world population, 1% global land area and about 2% of world GDP & Co2 emission..
    Our overall unfluence is relatively trivial and we'd be better off looking after our interests than trade them for global posturing.

    Quite so.

    In the UK, he is, as Chancellor traditionally, bound to support the Prime Minister in matters
    not involving money, in exchange for having the PM supporting him on money matters.

    However when he does so his style, expression, pace and tone are noticeably different.
    I have the suspicion that he is merely acting a customary role, i.e. going through the charade,
    himself not necessarily in favour of the May way, but disciplined in concealing his real views.
     
  14. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    All hell is on again! :D

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nisters-feud-in-public-over-no-deal-live-news

     
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  15. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    So, Brexit MPs keep refusing to vote for Brexit legislation and then they complain that a Remain Parliament is betraying the mythical will of the people? What idiots.
     
  16. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Quite strange that they are being put off by announcements about new referendums indeed. Did they expect brexit to mean brexit?
     
  17. uppi

    uppi Warlord

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  18. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I am not seeing what May thinks she is achieving here. Even assuming she is the only person who believes her deal will get through, why bother? She already is a failed pm and has been since the last general election. Time for her to just leave.
     
  19. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    What part of the PM's tenure leads you to assume that that is ever going to happen?
     
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  20. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I am just surprised by how stubborn she is, and wonder if by now it is just the effect of shock at her own incredible botching of the situation.
     

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