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Brexit Thread VI - The Knockout Phase ?!?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hrothbern, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    52% brexit is at least a lexit, right? ^_^
     
  2. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    52% would suggest that we do actually leave, surrendering our voting power and any influence we might have left, in return for staying in all the various groups and policies for the benefit of the economy and the populace. It's the worst of both worlds and therefore an entirely equitable position to be in when faced with the need for an uncomfortable compromise.
     
  3. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    As if any russians were needed, or if the were the major financiers of this type of political play.
    Ever heard of James Goldsmith? He's dead now, but there are plenty like him. And now they can leverage on a level of "dissatisfaction with the system" that then was very much an avant-garde thing. The seventies have delivered their fruit.

    It has been crystal clear for a long time what would be accepted by the UK: the existing Withdrawal Agreement (even with payments to the EU) without the irish backstop.

    It would have been an agreement highly beneficial to the EU. But they postured so much that they' can't back down.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  4. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Really? Who's "the UK" in this instance?
     
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  5. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    Really? Who's ‘they’ in this instance?
     
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  6. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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  7. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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  8. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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  9. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    She's already the least successful PM since Anthony Eden, so I imagine she rather wants to sit out the next week so that she can have a longer tenure than Gordon Brown (and thus not as short as Eden or Alec Douglas-Home).
     
  10. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Just curious, what measure are you using for this? Frankly I have been quite impressed by her staying power, I thought she would be gone in a matter of months when she first ascended to PM-ship, so I have some respect for her skillfully playing a totally losing hand.
     
  11. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    She chose the hand, chose to keep on playing the same cards even though they were duds.
    I can't see any skill, just stubborness.
     
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  12. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Oh, she's definitely tenacious, but she has utterly failed to deliver the single overriding issue of her tenure (and even when she had her party united behind her, she still made a dreadful mess of it all with all her red lines and constant genuflecting to the extreme wing of her party). Not only that, she failed to respond to the Windrush crisis adequately (which was partly of her making as Home Secretary) and still has yet to implement any meaningful changes after the Grenfell fire.
     
  13. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    It takes some sort of skill to spend three years on a single issue and manage to have absolutely nothing to deliver on it.
    I mean, AFAIR, the actual real work started what, in december ? Before that we had the guy responsible for Brexit showing up without having even read anything on the subject and such sort of anthics that the people on the European side were incensed enough to simply turn down meetings until there was evidence that there would be something to discuss about ?
     
  14. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    To be clear, I mean "skill" in a sort of self-aggrandizing sense, not the skill of statesmanship but of clinging to power.

    Also, I don't think she chose the hand. She didn't decide to have the referendum with an undefined "Brexit" as an option. She didn't decide that Parliament would be unable to muster a majority for any specific policy that the EU would also agree to.
     
  15. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    She did decide what she thought the result of the referendum meant and only after she'd failed to push it through parliament 3 times did she tentatively reach out to try and find common ground with others. Even then she couldn't bring herself to compromise in a meaningful way. If she'd reached out to Parliament in 2015 before positions became so entrenched she might have achieved more. We will never know now.
     
  16. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    I'm skeptical, but you're surely right that we'll never know now.
     
  17. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    But she did decide to set so many red lines that she cut off many avenues of negotiation and ended up with a Withdrawal Bill that nobody likes. She triggered Article 50 without any preparation, she fought Parliament and the courts all the way and she spent her entire tenure feverishly trying to avoid splitting the Tories over Europe, none of which she needed to do and all of which was counterproductive to actually getting on with it and getting a sensible deal done.
     
  18. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    And didn't even avoid splitting the Tories over Europe.
    Basically 4 years wasted, we still don't know what if any form of Brexit we will get.
     
  19. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    If you are mortally wounded... you can still kill opponents
     
  20. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    https://jacobinmag.com/2019/05/european-union-parliament-elections-antidemocratic

    This article has convinced me definitively that the EU is less democratic than national governments.

    I will plead ignorance for my fence-sitting on this question, but it amazes me that any knowledgeable observer could possibly make a case for the EU being democratic when the people running it openly make statements like “there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties.”
     
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