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Brexit Thread VII - Revenge of the Brexiteers

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cheetah, Jul 26, 2019.

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  1. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    There's no point in hating them for something they did or didn't do in the past because they don't have a consistent line on anything. If you push the fence they
    are sitting on some could topple towards you or the other way.
    Lord Buckethead is more reliable than that lot.

    Have I Got News for You starts on the BBC in a few hours and Rachel Johnson, sister of Boris, will be one of the panelists. It's hard to know whether she will be appearing as a Tory, or a LibDem, pro-Brexit or anti.

    Johnson was a member of the Conservative Party from 2008 to 2011, but later joined the Liberal Democrats in the run up to the 2017 general election because of the Conservative support for Brexit.
    In April 2019, she joined the new anti-Brexit party Change UK and was the lead candidate on the party list in South West England at the 2019 European Parliament election.
    She later lamented this decision, describing herself as the "rat that jumped onto a sinking ship"...


    After reading that, I still maintain that Lord Buckethead has a better and more consistent line on Brexit than all of the Johnsons combined!
     
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  2. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Lord Buckethead's idea is good: there should be a referendum, on whether there should be a new referendum.
     
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  3. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    Not enough. It should be a best of 5 series, with 3 years between referendums to allow more time for debate.
     
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  4. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    I can, because Stormont might not exist.
     
  5. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    But I wasn't predicting a disaster. Rather the opposite: that the EU when pushed with a real threat of no-deal would reopen negotiations. You know, the thing the absolutely insisted was impossible. And that even on the event of a do-neal the EU would seek temporary deals immediately because it can't do without trade with the UK any more than the UK can do without the EU. The sky will not fall, was my prediction Contrary to what numerous would-be Cassandras here were predicting.

    The deal up to a vote now is better than what May had got. The UK in practice gets its "fudge" on the customs rules for NI, and the territory can exit later on if its assembly so chooses. I still regard it as a bad deal, mind you. But given the lack of preparation on the UK side it's probably a good idea to get it done and get a competent government in place.

    No no no, the european way is redoing the referendums only until you get the desired result. With liberal threats to voters spread in between. Except if it is France because, well, France is France. In that case you just change the name of the thing and pass it without a referendum.
     
  6. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Except there wasn't a "real" threat of no-deal, given the Benn Act requiring the PM to seek an extension. Besides, the point about being Cassandra is that she was always right, but never believed. Her name isn't just short-hand for any old prophet.
     
  7. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Technically it still does, despite this vote on a deal. We'll see if one is actually called.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  8. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Didn't you have like a huge ongoing discussion at the bbc and other such media about whether Boris would indeed request anything?
    Besides, didn't your queen herself just say in her parliamentary speech that you are leaving the Eu on the 31rst of October? And yet you haven't yet passed the Bojo-Eu deal through your important parliament.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  9. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    The Queen reads what she's told to read and, frankly, if you believe anything that comes out of No 10 right now, you probably need to reassess your credibility threshold. The law requires Johnson to seek an extension if Parliament does not assent to a deal today. If Parliament does not, no amount of hot air will stop Johnson from being forced by law from doing that.
     
  10. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    Not so sure of that, he mght just resign, if he is smart.
     
  11. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Brexit has always been a Tory project and Johnson's part in it has always been for his glorification. I don't see Johnson going anywhere unless he's virtually dragged out of No 10.
     
  12. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    :popcorn:
     
  13. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Who knew Brexit was so complicated ?
    What is the point of these changes its just Mays old chequers plan,
     
  14. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    For us? None at all. Most of the ERG is supporting stuff they condemned as unacceptable not so long ago.
    But its nice for Boris, he gets to be PM and that's all that matters to him.
     
  15. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Who could possibly have seen this coming? Which titans of politics were blind to this eventuality?

    From the Guardian:

    Ed Vaizey, another one of the Tory MPs to have the whip withdrawn over attempts to block a no-deal Brexit, asked if the Letwin amendment did not pass and the deal was voted for but the bill did not pass by 31 October, whether that would lead to no deal? Barclay did not give a straight answer.

    The former attorney general, Dominic Grieve, another who had the whip, removed said the Letwin amendment was nothing more than “an insurance policy”. Barclay said the purpose of the amendment was just delay, “to stop us getting Brexit done”. He says today is an opportunity for all those who want to avoid no deal.
     
  16. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Isn't this somewhat weak? You had no trouble going from "judge dredd will destroy Boris so Bo has to sign no matter what" to "he cannot resign cause he is too vain". Surely that isn't a "no matter what", let alone that, legal proceedings aside, he can just stall and face the law's consequences to his own peril, yet you leave on the 31rst with no deal.
    All the above more than qualify to allow for people to claim the Eu didn't want to take the risk.
     
  17. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    No deal it will be, then? Good for the UK, a Parliament bent on undermining it keeps unintentionally protecting it.
     
  18. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    So if I got it all now:

    1. Boris Johnson is now forced to ask for extension by 23:00 GST, but just said he refuses to do so?

    2. He instead says he will present the Withdrawal Act on Tuesday and that he expects it to pass?
     
  19. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    It's the Govt who has pulled the vote today, not the Speaker or the Opposition. If there's no deal, it's entirely the Govt's fault, not Parliament's.

    It's perfectly possible to pass a law inside 12 days - the Benn Act did just that, after all, so one can only assume that the Govt pulling the motion today is because Johnson is furious that his latest attempt to bounce MPs into blindly voting for the deal has failed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  20. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Well, let's hope that law will be "paid" :)
     
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