Brexit Thread VIII: Taking a penalty kick-ing

[Gorbles]

I mean, it's not just ham sandwiches. The repeated referral to a single item of food indicates you're trying to make this sound more ridiculous than it actually is.

Invoking Covid is whataboutism anyhow. Covid already exists in the UK. It already exists in mainland Europe. It cannot be prevented anymore than establishing social distancing, wearing masks, and now rolling out the vaccine can prevent it. To use it as a comparison to a border control issue the UK has had plenty of time to prepare its workers for is the real excuse.

 

[Yeekim]

I recall being quite dumbfounded when US border agents confiscated an apple and a sandwich I had kept from a plane meal...

 

[innonimatu]

I recall being quite dumbfounded when US border agents confiscated an apple and a sandwich I had kept from a plane meal...

And that is another bureaucratic pettiness that has more to do with the airport-as-malls situation than with any real sanitary worries. Consume anew!

 

[Samson]

And that is another bureaucratic pettiness that has more to do with the airport-as-malls situation than with any real sanitary worries. Consume anew!

This does not change the fact that such petty enforcement of these rules is the norm. Try bringing such things to Australia and you will see a whole new level of enforcement.

 

[really]

Customs and border guards the world over are hardly known for their live and let live attitude.

My family used to smuggle Christmas cakes and hams into the US when visiting family there. I always thought it was bananas, as if they didn't have those things there.

 

[Samson]

Customs and border guards the world over are hardly known for their live and let live attitude.

My family used to smuggle Christmas cakes and hams into the US when visiting family there. I always thought it was bananas, as if they didn't have those things there.

Last Christmas I "smuggled" a suet christmas pudding into the states 'cos my brother could not find where to buy one there. I did not get caught, so it was completely legal.

 

[Ferocitus]

Last Christmas I "smuggled" a suet christmas pudding into the states 'cos my brother could not find where to buy one there. I did not get caught, so it was completely legal.

That squares with Australian Customs' assessment of US border security officials:
Couldn't find a suet pudding with a torch and a rubber glove.

 

[Ferocitus]

From London, murder capital of the World.

Tower of London's 'queen' raven Merlina missing
Ravenmaster Christopher Skaife said he would be taking some time to mourn Merlina, according to the Local Democracy Reporting Service.
"I know so many of you lovely folk will be saddened by this news," he said in a social media statement.
"None more than me. Please excuse my absence for a few days."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-55651104

Now that the UK has left the EU, are Ravenmasters entitled to paid bereavement leave?

 

[Hrothbern]

Johnson is facing questions of Tory MP's of the fishing districts because of the customs declarations red tape to export in effect stopping fishing because of transport delays.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ng-areas-criticise-government-brexit-red-tape
Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Commons leader, later went on to argue that the fish were now happier being British.
“The key is that we’ve got our fish back. They’re British fish and they’re better and happier fish for it,” he told parliament.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Maybe something good could come out of Brexit, growing more food locally, cutting down on the environmental and social costs of importing food long distances

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55650274

It will need government support and mean people's food costs go up though

 

[innonimatu]

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Commons leader, later went on to argue that the fish were now happier being British.
“The key is that we’ve got our fish back. They’re British fish and they’re better and happier fish for it,” he told parliament.

Rhetoric sometimes can go comically bad
But if the fish catch got reduced I bet they would be happier fish, uncaring whether they were british or french

 

[Gorbles]

Maybe something good could come out of Brexit, growing more food locally, cutting down on the environmental and social costs of importing food long distances

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55650274

It will need government support and mean people's food costs go up though

Here's a chaser to that (potential) shot, unfortunately:

NEW: Downing Street plans major overhaul of workers rights rules, starting with abolition of the EU 48 hr week rule.

Link to Tweet. Direct link to article (Financial Times).

And here was me being called paranoid when I said a Conservative government would jump at the chance to abolish what labour protections we have.

 

[Takhisis]

abolition of the EU 48 hr week rule.

innonimatu's fight against neoliberalism goes on

 

[Arakhor]

Nationalism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. First Williamson and now Rees-Mogg. It's almost as if they don't have any other news that they could spin instead.

 

[innonimatu]

And here was me being called paranoid when I said a Conservative government would jump at the chance to abolish what labour protections we have.

It's your country's government and parliament. Change it! I's up to the british alone now to decide on that. At least you will no longer have a supra-national fopby outside your control, the CJEU, ruling that british corporation can bring in workers from abroad, to live and work in the UK outside the work laws applicable in the UK. Such a thing has been laid down as the law in the EU. See Laval un Partneri Ltd v Svenska Byggnadsarbetareförbundet - the freedom of corporations to exploit workers ("provide services") trumps the freedom of national law to protect workers!

And you know what, the CJEU even through 2020 kept on undermining labour law neoliberal style for UK workers. The context was a UK Employment Tribunal apparently trying to be nice and seeking in EU directives some reason to approve the complaint against this "gig economy" corporation.

B is a neighbourhood parcel delivery courier. He carries on his business exclusively for the undertaking Yodel, a parcel delivery undertaking, since July 2017.

In order to carry on his activity, B had to undergo training in order to familiarise himself with the use of the handheld delivery device provided by Yodel.

Neighbourhood couriers who carry on their activity for the benefit of that undertaking are engaged on the basis of a courier services agreement which stipulates that they are ‘self-employed independent contractors’.
[...]
Although the services agreement concluded between Yodel and the couriers classifies those couriers as ‘self-employed independent contractors’, B claims that his status is that of a ‘worker’ for the purposes of Directive 2003/88. He considers that, although he is self-employed for tax purposes and accounts for his own business expenses, he is an employee of Yodel.
[...]
The referring court has doubts as to the compatibility of the provisions of that law, as interpreted by the courts of the United Kingdom, with EU law. Furthermore, in the event that B were to be classified as a ‘worker’ for the purposes of Directive 2003/88, it wishes to obtain guidance as to the methods for calculating the working time of the couriers with whom Yodel concluded a services agreement, since they may, during the time they devote to the delivery of parcels on behalf of that undertaking, provide their services simultaneously to other undertakings, and organise their activities with a great deal of latitude.

The answer, no such luck:

As a preliminary point, it should be noted that Directive 2003/88 does not define the concept of ‘worker’.

However, the Court has already ruled on that concept.

It has thus held, inter alia, that that concept has an autonomous meaning specific to EU law (judgment of 20 November 2018, Sindicatul Familia Constanţa and Others, C‑147/17, EU:C:2018:926, paragraph 41).

In that regard, it is for the national court to apply that concept of a ‘worker’ for the purposes of Directive 2003/88...
[...]
It follows from all the foregoing considerations that Directive 2003/88 must be interpreted as precluding a person engaged by his putative employer under a services agreement which stipulates that he is a self-employed independent contractor from being classified as a ‘worker’ for the purposes of that directive, where that person is afforded discretion:
- to use subcontractors or substitutes to perform the service which he has undertaken to provide;
- to accept or not accept the various tasks offered by his putative employer, or unilaterally set the maximum number of those tasks;
- to provide his services to any third party, including direct competitors of the putative employer, and
- to fix his own hours of ‘work’ within certain parameters and to tailor his time to suit his personal convenience rather than solely the interests of the putative employer,

So do not towards the EU to defend workers. Especially do not look to the CJEU.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Maybe something good could come out of Brexit, growing more food locally, cutting down on the environmental and social costs of importing food long distances

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55650274

It will need government support and mean people's food costs go up though

Interesting article. I agree with most of this.

A problem is that public investward and policy to re-establish run down capablities, such as local vegetables,
cuts across corporate interpretations of level playing field principles that gets stuck in international treaties.

 

[Gorbles]

It's your country's government and parliament. Change it! I's up to the british alone now to decide on that. At least you will no longer have a supra-national fopby outside your control, the CJEU, ruling that british corporation can bring in workers from abroad, to live and work in the UK outside the work laws applicable in the UK. Such a thing has been laid down as the law in the EU. See Laval un Partneri Ltd v Svenska Byggnadsarbetareförbundet - the freedom of corporations to exploit workers ("provide services") trumps the freedom of national law to protect workers!

And you know what, the CJEU even through 2020 kept on undermining labour law neoliberal style for UK workers. The context was a UK Employment Tribunal apparently trying to be nice and seeking in EU directives some reason to approve the complaint against this "gig economy" corporation.



The answer, no such luck:



So do not towards the EU to defend workers. Especially do not look to the CJEU.

You're distinctly missing the point that limiting working weeks to 48 hours was a victory for workers, and that other rulings against workers do not invalidate that.

And once again, "change it" is a slogan. It's not helpful advice. It doesn't actually mean anything. We have as much power to change our increasingly two-party politics as we do to affect the EU at that level. Look at how the last grassroots-lead movement turned out. Knived from all angles

You need to stop riding on the EU just because it happens to be the EU. It just so happens that people called Brexit an opportunity for our Tory government to exploit us further, and hey! Those people were right.

 

[EnglishEdward]

What was most effective at limiting the working week for workers in the UK was
the minimum wage, introduced in Tony Blair's first term and nothing to do with the
EU, that resulted in employers encountering the cost of long unproductive hours.

 

[Gorbles]

What was most effective at limiting the working week for workers in the UK was
the minimum wage, introduced in Tony Blair's first term and nothing to do with the
EU, that resulted in employers encountering the cost of long unproductive hours.

No, the most effective thing is definitely a literal legal limit (undermined by the opt-out clause and zero-hour contracts, but still. I don't see the Tories going after the latter, either. Nor Starmer's Labour). But trust you to put a negative spin on the minimum wage

 

[Samson]

Who'd have thought. Only a little over a week and we are already allowing use of a pesticide banned in the EU.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...ticide-banned-in-eu/ar-BB1cAHX7?ocid=msedgdhp

To add a bit of context to this. In the introduction to a special issue of PNAS that throws light on insect decline, ecologists do not mince words:

Indeed, most biologists agree that the world has entered its sixth mass extinction event, the first since the end of the Cretaceous Period 66 million y ago, when more than 80% of all species, including the nonavian dinosaurs, perished.

Although conservation efforts have historically focused attention on protecting rare, charismatic, and endangered species, the “insect apocalypse” presents a different challenge. In addition to the loss of rare taxa, many reports mention sweeping declines of formerly abundant insects [e.g., Warren et al. (29)], raising concerns about ecosystem function.
Insects comprise much of the animal biomass linking primary producers and consumers, as well as higher-level consumers in freshwater and terrestrial food webs. Situated at the nexus of many trophic links, many numerically abundant insects provide ecosystem services upon which humans depend: the pollination of fruits, vegetables, and nuts; the biological control of weeds, agricultural pests, disease vectors, and other organisms that compete with humans or threaten their quality of life; and the macrodecomposition of leaves and wood and removal of dung and carrion, which contribute to nutrient cycling, soil formation, and water purification. Clearly, severe insect declines can potentially have global ecological and economic consequences.
While there is much variation—across time, space, and taxonomic lineage—reported rates of annual decline in abundance frequently fall around 1 to 2% (e.g., refs. 12, 13, 17, 18, 30, and 31). Because these rates, based on abundance, are likely reflective of those for insect biomass [see Hallmann et al. (26)], there is ample cause for concern (i.e., that some terrestrial regions are experiencing faunal subtractions of 10% or more of their insects per decade). To what extent such declines translate into shifts or losses of ecosystem function has yet to be assessed.
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Spoiler Graph of decline in UK :

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PNAS special issue introduction | 30 min read PNAS feature | 15 min read