1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Brexit Thread VIII: Taking a penalty kick-ing

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by tjs282, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,298
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amsterdam

    If Tory governments build a lot of houses for starters to buy
    and Labour governments build a lot of public housing to rent out at affordable rents
    and you have enough houses...
    how is that, as such, driving the price up ?

    If affordable housing is a right... if you must be able to live where jobs are... if there is good public transport from densely populated neighborhoods to companies... you always end up with more housing than demand (because of the volatility where the jobs are).
    Basic infra investments.

    How is that driving the price up of housing ?
     
  2. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,540
    Location:
    England
    It is easy to assume that subsidising new housing means more houses are built.
    But what often happens is that the same houses are built, but sold at a higher price.
     
  3. Samson

    Samson Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,575
    Location:
    Cambridge
    This is true, and it is why the state should be building houses rather than trying to get private companies to do so. It was of course Thatcher who blocked local authorities building houses.
     
    Lexicus likes this.
  4. really

    really Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,916
    Location:
    Éire
    I read an article recently about some council in the north of England bucking the trend and building new council houses for their own use and winning architectural awards for them. They built something like 600 over a few years, and then at the end it noted they lost 500 through right to buy giving a new increase of only 100 for all that effort.

    Edit: 65 sitting MPs won't be standing in this election so there is going to be churn no matter what. 29 Tory, 19 Lab, 7 former Tory and various others.
     
    Samson and Hrothbern like this.
  5. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    55,278
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    Which shows just how representative the last parliament got to be by the end. If you don't stand to be re-elected you pretty much don't represent anyone; and most politicians hardly care about the public unless they risk being voted out.
     
  6. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    33,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    What are you on about? MPs represent constituencies, not people, and their tenure does not affect that. Do you really think that MPs only care about doing their jobs if they think they're not going to be re-elected?
     
  7. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    55,278
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    Wasn't it clear I mean the exact opposite? Ie if they don't fear problems with re-election, they answer to no one, and due to absence of ethics they are unlikely to care about this lack of tie to any public.
    What exactly is so surprising in this, to you?
     
  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    33,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    That you seem to think that MPs not standing for re-election are amoral monsters.
     
  9. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    55,278
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    Hm, that isn't your shining moment as rhetorician, for sure.
     
  10. really

    really Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,916
    Location:
    Éire
    66 Philip Hammond won't be standing again.
     
  11. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    33,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    There's also how you seem to think that an MP who's been sitting since May's ill-fated election and who might have only recently decided not to stand for re-election, yet somehow that means that their entire two-year tenure is retroactively made unrepresentative because of this.
     
  12. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,998
    Location:
    Gingerbread Cottage
    There are still some councils building houses, including a few Tory ones, since they have housing waiting lists too.
    Usually they set up a private company wholly owned by the council to do it.
    Trouble is after 15 years residence right to buy means they have to sell it at a loss and they have to spend the proceeds on new building within a couple of years or it goes to the Treasury.
    So they have to build houses to sell as well so as to break even and can barely make a dent on the housing shortage.

    Decent houses too, no towerblocks nowadays.

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...ouncils-quietly-building-a-housing-revolution
     
    Hrothbern and really like this.
  13. Takhisis

    Takhisis daria dance party

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    44,994
    Location:
    up yours!
    If you mean conservative in terms of the Conservative Party then sure, crony capitalism is not restricted to said Conservative Party, but the conservative movement in the Anglo-Saxon world (economically conservative, I mean, let's leave socially conservative for another time) is pretty much about a return to the pre-New Deal gilded age. Most obviously exemplified by buy-to-let schemes of the Thatcher era, also by defunding the NHS and privatising education, and the poll tax -off the top of my head.
     
    Samson likes this.
  14. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,298
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Diplomacy coupled with espionage and influencing is reality since time immemorial.

    Did you know that Dominic Cummings did stay 3 years in Russia directly after graduating from Oxford university (history) ?


    Really a clever strategic move of Thatcher.
    That forced to sell with a loss making it hard to replenish social housing from the revenues of selling. A one way ticket removing council housing to the benefit of the "newcomers" of the Thatcher "middleclass".

    Has Labour that in his manifesto ?
    Turning back that right to buy below replacement cost ?
    Or is the Labour voter base already too feeble ? And self interest prevailing ?
     
  15. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,998
    Location:
    Gingerbread Cottage
    They haven't finalised their 2019 manifesto yet but the 2017 manifesto said,

    We will remove government restrictions that stop councils building homes and begin the biggest council building programme for at least 30 years.We will ditch the Conservatives’ ban on long-term council tenancies to give council tenants security in their homes. We want more people to have a secure tenancy in a home built to high standards.
    Labour will scrap the punitive bedroom tax, which has caused many people to be evicted from their home and their community. More council homes have been sold off under the Conservatives and only one in five have been replaced, despite long housing waiting lists. Labour will suspend the right-to-buy policy to protect affordable homes for local people, with councils only able to resume sales if they can prove they have a plan to replace homes sold like-for-like.

    All fine so far as it goes but a bit short on specifics. Would have liked a commitment on how many new homes would be built myself.
     
    Hrothbern likes this.
  16. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,540
    Location:
    England
    In general I agree with Amazonqueen and Samson's comments on housing in the UK.

    But I am a little cautious about parties making commitments on numbers because that can have unintended consequences.
    For example net builds is more important than total builds, and concentration on total numbers can result in smaller
    properties, lowering of standards or the outcome build quality, neglection of refurbishments and houses in wrong places.
     
  17. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    33,198
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    The BBC has just reported Nigel Farage as saying: "I don't want you [the electorate] to be conned by people in this general election." That's somewhat extraordinary, coming from a serial hypocrite and con artist.
     
    really likes this.
  18. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    55,278
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire


    Boris: "I need to remind you that I don't want an election"

    Is he an idiot?
    More importantly, do people actually buy this garbage? :shake:

    I hope Corbyn wins this :)
     
  19. Takhisis

    Takhisis daria dance party

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    44,994
    Location:
    up yours!
    Yes and yes.
     
  20. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    55,278
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire


    Start at 43.00 for the nice moment half a minute later :lol:
     

Share This Page