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Brexit Thread VIII: Taking a penalty kick-ing

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by tjs282, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. Mega Tsunami

    Mega Tsunami Emperor

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    @Verbose
    Understandably, you are perhaps not fully up with what has been going on.

    Boris has been asking for a Canada/SK type agreement for ages. The EU backtracked on its original step offer you have shown (offered to Mrs May) to say no, because of ‘geographical reasons’ ( :lol: pathetic, I know) they can no longer offer the Canada type deal.
     
  2. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Oh, but that's just you channelling Johnson.

    The UK has still to table actual text for negotiations.
     
  3. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    You are beng trivial.

    The EU already has the text of the EU/Canada Agreement and the EU/South Korea Agreement.
     
  4. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Well, the bible has this bit about the beam and you neighbour's eye...

    Guess I just don't see any reason to engage with Brexit on the level the UK government has dragged it to.

    Edit: Or to still take it more seriously, the problem here is that when the UK government uses it (and subsequently then you as well) "Canada means Canada" in much the same way "Brexit means Brexit", or used to.

    In fact, there has really been a transposition of framing of the the situation by the UK, so that "Canada means Canada" is really an equivalent of "Brexit means Brexit", and consequently where we all are at now is: "Brexit means Canada".

    And the fundamental problem is still that the the UK isn't asking for "What Canada had", but for some kind of "Canada" packed with all the implied tack-ons the UK would also like, but is damned if it is going to specify. Meaning that just like "Brexit", "Canada" can retain all kinds of potential – unless the game is ruined by specifying this in detail. It is a typical UK political "fudge", an example of "the power of soft concepts".

    Unfortunately everyone is now in a situation where everything is going to have to be finally specified, and as legal text, when ratified legally binding text, so the UK "fudges" are running out of place and time. It's why Barnier specifically refers to "legal text".
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  5. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours!
    The English Empire was subsumed into the British Empire, but several of the American colonies date to long before the Acts of Union.

    And there was also the Angevin English Empire, which consisted of England, Ireland and half of France. Scotland had Nova Scotia and the failed Darién scheme; the failure of the latter led to Scottish lords selling their country to the English in order not to go bankrupt.
     
  6. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    The Angevin Empire wasn't English or an empire. It was a collection of territories with their own laws and customs belonging to a Frenchman.
     
  7. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    A lot of empires have been collections of territories with their own laws and customs belonging to somebody under the form a personal union.
     
  8. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    There is much in your post that is sensible, and I note that you worked in the steel industry.

    When I was much younger, I read the Asimov Foundation where 'the mule' exerts mind control powers.


    Throughout the period 1 Jan 1973 to date, the UK has been de-industrialising.
    There is precious little evidence that EEC/EC/EU rules ever helped UK industry.

    I am not in favour of giving up the remnant of the UK steel industry,
    but I believe that it can only survive with state aid of one sort another.

    And there is nothing to suggest that agreeing to the imposition of punitive tariffs on
    dumped chinese imports would not have enabled German, Italian, French and
    Spanish steel from successively targeting the remnant of the UK steel industry.

    A Treaty between the EU and the UK that permits free trade in,
    amongst other things, steel; but prohibits state aid according to
    EU rules and interpretations would inevitably doom the remnant UK steel.
    I.e. Hidden subsidies to Germany & France would be conveniently overlooked
    while any UK subsidies to UK steel would if not scared off get taken to court.
    And it is not as if those member states steel corporations would need much in
    the way of state help having gained a comparative advantage of scale over the UK.
    Besides which EU supported infrastructure projects would choose EU, not UK, steel.
     
    innonimatu likes this.
  9. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    What dose this even mean ???
    The Japanese built better ships, the US built better aircraft and the Gemans built better cars.

    What dose this mean ???
    Dose the UK want to just subsidize British Steel $260 Mil per year forever ????

     
  10. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    If the UK goes stand alone with the Steel Industry (whatever other sectors not needing steel would be more of a free trade with the EU) the UK can give state aid to steel up to the restrictions of the WTO (which should be reviewed on state aid because of China)
    Just high WTO tariffs on steel would protect the Steel Industry as well and would not need state aid. It stays the most simple solution.

    That there is within the EU some"unfair" competition... yes there is. More surface area with highly fertile soil is also "unfair". More written off nuclear power plants means cheaper electricity for industry and indirect lower wages because lower electricity cost for citizens. And when one plant blows up the public state pays. Such hidden cost are not in the daily electricity price. Etc, etc.

    I saw in the news here that the Chinese Jingye Group is interested in UK Tata. That rescue package FriendlyFire mentions could be needed for that deal. How much will be a bargaining with Jingye.
    In fact also a state aid and directly selling off. And hope for the best ofc whereby you trade the benefits for direct and indirect jobs and related sectors for a bigger influence of a foreign multinational and on top China, which will limit your UK sovereignty towards China.
    (which is also happening everywhere, China applying the same business model as the rich west did increasingly more since WW2, since the end of traditional colonialism)
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  11. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    @Hrothbern

    There is a problem in the UK in that the political elite still see deals with foreign interests as
    the solution to problems when in actual fact such deals are often merely sources of problems.
     
  12. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    yes
    I agree with that.
    You need another political elite
    (there will always be elites)
     
  13. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    It was a pretty close call, tbh.

     
  14. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    England has raging coronavirus and a PM who hates making tough decisions.
     
  15. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    After the US election:

    Brexit - Breturn - Nexit ?
     
  16. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Nexit means NL out of the EU
    Nexit no
    setting up our own euro area is in discussion wider than among just the usual Nexit suspects.

    Nexit as No Exit for the UK
    also no
    A Brino possible in a disguise for easier rejoining
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
  17. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    Nexit here is the next UK exit after the Breturn.
     
  18. Mega Tsunami

    Mega Tsunami Emperor

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    I see the Irish have resorted to trying to poison us Brits. Must be a Brexit thing: :D

    Guinness recalls non-alcoholic stout over contamination fears
    Firm issues ‘precautionary’ recall of recently launched Guinness 0.0 in Great Britain

    https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-non-alcoholic-stout-over-contamination-fears


    Joking aside – this was taken today’s Torygraph newsfeed

    Negotiators are expecting to miss this week's deadline to secure a post-Brexit trade, with an update on the talks pushed back until "late next week", Reuters is reporting.

    Ambassadors of the 27 EU member states in Brussels had been due to receive a stock take during a meeting today, but the issue is now pencilled in for their meeting on November 18.

    However, EU sources told the wire they now expected negotiators to come up with an agreed text in the middle of next week, unless talks collapse or there is a breakthrough earlier.

    "The real cut-off point is late next week," said one EU diplomat who follows Brexit in EU hub Brussels.

    Both EU diplomats said the agenda could be updated at the last minute should the negotiations yield a breakthrough or collapse.

    A British source also said the negotiating teams' talks in London were expected to last through to the end of this week.
     
  19. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    An absolute gem of a sentence right there, because what would be the other possibilities? :)

    As always, quite chaotic and not much else to do for us public but wait and concern ourselves with more pressing matters.
     
    Old Hippy likes this.
  20. really

    really Deity

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    Hrothbern and Samson like this.

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