hi that you fixed generals focus fire with melee and that units do not walk any longer when you use focus fire is nice
thanks.
all in all i like the combat change from 6 to 7.
it makes generals valuable and units are pawns you can replace. in civ 6 if you lost your double attack archer u had to load. but since archers have no more double attack i think knights and ships need to be slightly nerfed! u need 6 of them to reach the ship/knight and attack them in a turn to kill them. thats a bit harsh especially vs ships that 1 shot them and where placement of 6 that can attack in the same turn is not always possible.
so for busy devs lets do a to do list first and then i explain why i come to those conclusions: but just as a hint many changes are needed since huge maps made the problems more visible! mainly the trade range ones since it forces you to sit in a tiny corner of a huge map together with city limit.
and of course i dont expect you to implement all those changes or the way i suggest them it is your game after all. its just suggestions to give the players more choices again and have more impact on the flow of the game
influence does not get reduced EVER. --> griefances just make influence costs higher. triple them quadruple them but never touch my influence. diplomacy should always be possible. war worth it and you can still add independant powers. (otherwise you loose so many free civics and techs that war never will be worth it)
remove camels -> new building chain + resources to your city. +1 choice and we can decide strategic where to build and conquer. now you are forced to build to camels with city limit.
remove trade range (or buff it considerably for huge maps) -> bring back merchants to connect cities on huge range. +1 choice and makes war valuable again!!!! very important.
new building chain to make envoy ;D -> old city state system +choices and lets players compete over suzerain status
new building chain for walls. 3 5 7 walls never more. -> more choices and it prevents endless wars vs cities that have 10 walls and reinforce with archers. since it makes melee and archers kinda useless and only siege units can hurt those within walls. if there are to many walls your units die before u breach
bring something like eureka back? or other little quests that reward science/culture not just click dialogues. i mean yeah legacy paths kinda do that a little but the effect of those attribute points does not really matter.
they are very weak on slower speeds. the 25% faster research civics are strong thats it. expansion and diplomacy come to slow to matter much most of the times. also legacy paths are more what golden ages were before with delay.
overwork specialists! new building chain to recieve one for free and then all 50 turns on marathon. with buildings u get them faster. make them really specialists! so if i send them on a tile with barracks they make 5 production not just science and culture otherwise they are researcher not specialists. if i send them on a granary let them do food etc. make it so we can change the location of our specialists like this we CAN manage what our cities produce a little bit at least. which is quite important at the start u want food to grow then u want production for units/wonders! if we cant change it we cant compete. since workers are also gone. they could give a production boost to wonders while perma removing some production from the city. at least until you can regrow forests. that was a good trade. so the specialists would replace the old city managment a little bit back to player managment. also you could make leaders/civs that boost specialists. numbers need to be tested of course i just said something that feels not to strong but noticeable. or maybe 1 free specialist if you build the building for them. then 40 50 or 60 turns to get the next one. on marathon. or you make the first to appear after 10 turn second 20 third 40 i dunno. just like now specialists only boost culture/science and are boring. and more building chains equals more choices
let towns build wonders!!!!! otherwise its impossible to compete for wonders that need certain terrain! ïts hard enough without workers who can speed them up. and yes i know u can remove a war city state but thats only once or twice. in civ 6 you could build a new city in the desert then build workers in your capital to speed up the pyramids or buy them with faith and gold to do the same. you COULD compete for wonders. now you can't at all. its just based on starting pos and luck
or just remove towns. i dont think anyone likes them?
DONT change resources on age transition. why would you do that? i think long where i want to build and its one of the most strategic descisions and then you change what resources do or remove them to randomly add new ones? i cant raze my cities so thats horrible. add resources with TECH again and make it so new resources always give PLUS production gold etc for my city. incense is the worst u go build there for + science next age they are useless.
rework independent powers so players can compete for them again! i would make a building chain that gives us envoys again. but sure you can stick with influence but please let us take them away from others. right now once suzerain forever suzerain. also if the AI targets them they always get crushed in a few turns if you do not defend them. and you CANT liberate them? why? also not in peace negotiations. no wars of liberation.
also change the reward system. civ 6 with +1 3 5 science was good and let you gradually improve one yield you wanted. the get free civics or technologies is way to random. sometimes you gain 3 turns sometimes 40 to 60. so the rng is way to big. and its hard to time by how long it takes to ally them. lets say you get 20 science the rng is between 60 and 800 1200 science you get for free ;D and since huge maps you can add like 6 ot 7 independent powers. on small maps it was only like 3 then all were taken.
since you have city limit why in peace negotiations i can only ask for cities? add gold or resources as negotiation tokens please. or that we can force them in research agreements convert religion etc.
overwork faith to be a choice again. yes you can do that in a dlc not very important atm other things need attention first.
so thats it for now cause i think you removed choices and added restrictions to the point we as player have nothing to decide any longer. and we have nothing to micro manage like cities. its very dumbed down in its current state! even if it was not intended. streets build from alone i cant interract with my city specialist placement aside and that one barely matters. who cares if i get 3 science and 4 culture or the other way around?
wars are at terrible cost/downside wise so not worth it. -> influence low happyness low gold low and i cant connect cities i conquer so why even bother?
so often i find myself sitting in my city...and i dunno waiting for the AI to get agressive for no reason to attack. its just not fun that way! and it has nothing to do with age transition it was weird but we would have gotten used to it if the rest was fun.
that you made transition choosable is ok but i don't think it was the main problem with the game. but more options means more replayability. so its ok the only downside was when in a long war and then u transition and had to go again that aside it actually gave you another chance in games not going so well so you did not have to reboot.
i think one of the biggest issues with the game in the current state is you took away a lot of tactical and strategic descisions and thus thinking. and you gave us not many new ones. instead you added restrictions.
a few of them like trade range or the need to build next to camels were not so bad on smaller maps but on huge ones they really restrict our options. the same is with influence. it just makes war not worth it in its current state. more on this later.
so lets summarize what tactics and thinking you removed from the game.
workers: allowed strategic developpment of cities. we chose what citys we want to boost and when and had to allocate build time or money/faith to do so.
eureka. by playing a certain way you could get certain technologies before your enemies! and it gave you little quests through the game
faith since everyone gets it now and its kinda useless its not a choice any longer when to invest in it.
merchants. i mean you needed to build them or buy them to connect your cities now it just happens automatically if in range so again a choice less.
city management and what they produce!!! biggest issue acording to me. it stops us from competing for wonders. who builds them is more tech and start position dependent than ever.
towns cannot build things -> again if you build a new town to be able to construct a certain wonder by the time you have the money to transfom it into a city the wonder is often built aleady!
influence kinda takes away the decision do i go to war? cause the answer is no.
camels take away our thinking where do i want to build? cause it has to be next to them.
what did we get new? town specializations. kinda useless tbh. especially since they dont grow if you expand trade range also on huge maps the range u gain from it is so small that it does not matter at all! what else? hmm oh attribute points that also barely matter no impact. most of them a few are valuable as noted before.
what else? nothing.
so as you can see you removed tons of stuff and only added insignificant new mechanics. im NOT against brave devs that try out new things. but if you remove all those choices you kind of have to give us new ones. otherwise ppl get bored and play more exciting games. and thats what happened.
so right now the only choice is at the start do i build a scout or army. while in civ you could focus early on on settlers and culture buildings. workers and traders. those all come now much later or are removed. later its just building or army. and since war is not worth it you build buildings. thats it. and especially on huge maps war is often not an option so the game is kinda boring. you sit around wait for your city limit to go up...and build new cities trying to have enough science to actually build a wonder. or to be close enough to an enemy to actually engage in combat. which on not science focused civs often becomes impossible (the building wonder part). conquering a far away city even if it would be perfect is kinda useless since it turns into a town and you would have to build like 2 towns just to connect it. and those towns you actually need to build next to camels not to connect another capital city. but to compete in diety you need other capital cities. -.- error
but the worst reason why war is no longer worth it is infuence!
why influence is bad:
in civ 6 as a war monger you lost victory points that system was very realistic. you could still do diplomacy and could have alliances BUT in the united nations you had no more influence. it was a good system. in real if 2 nations are at war they can still conduct diplomacy. and they certainly can conduct diplomacy with their allies. in civ 7 you can't do that any longer. and that makes no sense at all.
yes i know we do not have united nations in civ 7. still the way influence goes in the negative just after razing 3 cities...is ridicolous. sorry. but who thought thats a good idea in a game where war should be the continuation of diplomacy to expand your empire??
together with the fact we have a city limit that kinda forces you to raze cities. also the AI uses to build cities close together so they overlap. so normally you have to raze 3 of them to take the capital and maybe 1 further away. so this one war would give you 3*-4 and twice -3 so minus 18 influence while we normally get 10 or 12.
so basically its negative after just one war.
people who write you can just give them the cities back in peace... no thats not what you want to do. seriously no! not on diety you kind of need one or two other capitals that have a huge population and buildings already to match the insane science and culture numbers the AI has.
but war is totally not worth it if it gives negative influence influence should NEVER be reduced.
why?
cause if u have negative influence u can't have allies. even if you have allies you can no longer renew research agreements or trade etc.
even worse you can't add independent powers any longer and loose all those free techs and civics.
and you kinda need both to compete with tech/culture numbers of AI on diety. at the start its fine but then most wonders are already built by the time you reach them despite you are only slightly behind in science.
camels need to go because it takes away the where do i want to build process. and your first cities are very important that you can place them in good locations with a lot of production or a natural wonder. not where there are camels.
yeah i think i leave it at that if people have questions to why i think certain things need to change i am happy to elaborate.
and again it does not have to happen with my suggestions but make war worth it again and give us more choices so we have to think more.
and merchants were one of those important choices. do i build a new settler or do i get a merchant first to connect my city?
and workers also played a huge role in that. do i first build a worker to improve my terrain and get more yields to the city or do i just start the wonder and then buy a worker once i raided enough barbarians ;D or do i need the gold to upgrade my slingers?
civ 6 really made you do choices. and now i just ..dont have to think much at all ;D
well without barbarians we don't need to protect our cities or traderoutes either.... i think i am happy about that cause it WAS very annoying. but it was a choice more and you had to leave some units behind. so it was a strategic element to consider. right now we dont really have anything to consider ;D
anyway to the few who still remain here have a nice day!
thanks.
all in all i like the combat change from 6 to 7.
it makes generals valuable and units are pawns you can replace. in civ 6 if you lost your double attack archer u had to load. but since archers have no more double attack i think knights and ships need to be slightly nerfed! u need 6 of them to reach the ship/knight and attack them in a turn to kill them. thats a bit harsh especially vs ships that 1 shot them and where placement of 6 that can attack in the same turn is not always possible.
so for busy devs lets do a to do list first and then i explain why i come to those conclusions: but just as a hint many changes are needed since huge maps made the problems more visible! mainly the trade range ones since it forces you to sit in a tiny corner of a huge map together with city limit.
and of course i dont expect you to implement all those changes or the way i suggest them it is your game after all. its just suggestions to give the players more choices again and have more impact on the flow of the game
influence does not get reduced EVER. --> griefances just make influence costs higher. triple them quadruple them but never touch my influence. diplomacy should always be possible. war worth it and you can still add independant powers. (otherwise you loose so many free civics and techs that war never will be worth it)
remove camels -> new building chain + resources to your city. +1 choice and we can decide strategic where to build and conquer. now you are forced to build to camels with city limit.
remove trade range (or buff it considerably for huge maps) -> bring back merchants to connect cities on huge range. +1 choice and makes war valuable again!!!! very important.
new building chain to make envoy ;D -> old city state system +choices and lets players compete over suzerain status
new building chain for walls. 3 5 7 walls never more. -> more choices and it prevents endless wars vs cities that have 10 walls and reinforce with archers. since it makes melee and archers kinda useless and only siege units can hurt those within walls. if there are to many walls your units die before u breach
bring something like eureka back? or other little quests that reward science/culture not just click dialogues. i mean yeah legacy paths kinda do that a little but the effect of those attribute points does not really matter.
they are very weak on slower speeds. the 25% faster research civics are strong thats it. expansion and diplomacy come to slow to matter much most of the times. also legacy paths are more what golden ages were before with delay.
overwork specialists! new building chain to recieve one for free and then all 50 turns on marathon. with buildings u get them faster. make them really specialists! so if i send them on a tile with barracks they make 5 production not just science and culture otherwise they are researcher not specialists. if i send them on a granary let them do food etc. make it so we can change the location of our specialists
like this we CAN manage what our cities produce a little bit at least. which is quite important at the start u want food to grow then u want production for units/wonders! if we cant change it we cant compete. since workers are also gone. they could give a production boost to wonders while perma removing some production from the city. at least until you can regrow forests. that was a good trade. so the specialists would replace the old city managment a little bit back to player managment. also you could make leaders/civs that boost specialists. numbers need to be tested of course i just said something that feels not to strong but noticeable. or maybe 1 free specialist if you build the building for them. then 40 50 or 60 turns to get the next one. on marathon. or you make the first to appear after 10 turn second 20 third 40 i dunno. just like now specialists only boost culture/science and are boring. and more building chains equals more choices let towns build wonders!!!!! otherwise its impossible to compete for wonders that need certain terrain! ïts hard enough without workers who can speed them up. and yes i know u can remove a war city state but thats only once or twice. in civ 6 you could build a new city in the desert then build workers in your capital to speed up the pyramids or buy them with faith and gold to do the same. you COULD compete for wonders. now you can't at all. its just based on starting pos and luck
or just remove towns. i dont think anyone likes them?
DONT change resources on age transition. why would you do that? i think long where i want to build and its one of the most strategic descisions and then you change what resources do or remove them to randomly add new ones? i cant raze my cities so thats horrible. add resources with TECH again and make it so new resources always give PLUS production gold etc for my city. incense is the worst u go build there for + science next age they are useless.
rework independent powers so players can compete for them again! i would make a building chain that gives us envoys again. but sure you can stick with influence but please let us take them away from others. right now once suzerain forever suzerain. also if the AI targets them they always get crushed in a few turns if you do not defend them. and you CANT liberate them? why? also not in peace negotiations. no wars of liberation.
also change the reward system. civ 6 with +1 3 5 science was good and let you gradually improve one yield you wanted. the get free civics or technologies is way to random. sometimes you gain 3 turns sometimes 40 to 60. so the rng is way to big. and its hard to time by how long it takes to ally them. lets say you get 20 science the rng is between 60 and 800 1200 science you get for free ;D and since huge maps you can add like 6 ot 7 independent powers. on small maps it was only like 3 then all were taken.
since you have city limit why in peace negotiations i can only ask for cities? add gold or resources as negotiation tokens please. or that we can force them in research agreements convert religion etc.
overwork faith to be a choice again. yes you can do that in a dlc not very important atm other things need attention first.
so thats it for now cause i think you removed choices and added restrictions to the point we as player have nothing to decide any longer. and we have nothing to micro manage like cities. its very dumbed down in its current state! even if it was not intended. streets build from alone i cant interract with my city specialist placement aside and that one barely matters. who cares if i get 3 science and 4 culture or the other way around?
wars are at terrible cost/downside wise so not worth it. -> influence low happyness low gold low and i cant connect cities i conquer so why even bother?
so often i find myself sitting in my city...and i dunno waiting for the AI to get agressive for no reason to attack. its just not fun that way! and it has nothing to do with age transition it was weird but we would have gotten used to it if the rest was fun.
that you made transition choosable is ok but i don't think it was the main problem with the game. but more options means more replayability. so its ok the only downside was when in a long war and then u transition and had to go again that aside it actually gave you another chance in games not going so well so you did not have to reboot.
i think one of the biggest issues with the game in the current state is you took away a lot of tactical and strategic descisions and thus thinking. and you gave us not many new ones. instead you added restrictions.
a few of them like trade range or the need to build next to camels were not so bad on smaller maps but on huge ones they really restrict our options. the same is with influence. it just makes war not worth it in its current state. more on this later.
so lets summarize what tactics and thinking you removed from the game.
workers: allowed strategic developpment of cities. we chose what citys we want to boost and when and had to allocate build time or money/faith to do so.
eureka. by playing a certain way you could get certain technologies before your enemies! and it gave you little quests through the game
faith since everyone gets it now and its kinda useless its not a choice any longer when to invest in it.
merchants. i mean you needed to build them or buy them to connect your cities now it just happens automatically if in range so again a choice less.
city management and what they produce!!! biggest issue acording to me. it stops us from competing for wonders. who builds them is more tech and start position dependent than ever.
towns cannot build things -> again if you build a new town to be able to construct a certain wonder by the time you have the money to transfom it into a city the wonder is often built aleady!
influence kinda takes away the decision do i go to war? cause the answer is no.
camels take away our thinking where do i want to build? cause it has to be next to them.
what did we get new? town specializations. kinda useless tbh. especially since they dont grow if you expand trade range also on huge maps the range u gain from it is so small that it does not matter at all! what else? hmm oh attribute points that also barely matter no impact. most of them a few are valuable as noted before.
what else? nothing.
so as you can see you removed tons of stuff and only added insignificant new mechanics. im NOT against brave devs that try out new things. but if you remove all those choices you kind of have to give us new ones. otherwise ppl get bored and play more exciting games. and thats what happened.
so right now the only choice is at the start do i build a scout or army. while in civ you could focus early on on settlers and culture buildings. workers and traders. those all come now much later or are removed. later its just building or army. and since war is not worth it you build buildings. thats it. and especially on huge maps war is often not an option so the game is kinda boring. you sit around wait for your city limit to go up...and build new cities trying to have enough science to actually build a wonder. or to be close enough to an enemy to actually engage in combat. which on not science focused civs often becomes impossible (the building wonder part). conquering a far away city even if it would be perfect is kinda useless since it turns into a town and you would have to build like 2 towns just to connect it. and those towns you actually need to build next to camels not to connect another capital city. but to compete in diety you need other capital cities. -.- error
but the worst reason why war is no longer worth it is infuence!
why influence is bad:
in civ 6 as a war monger you lost victory points that system was very realistic. you could still do diplomacy and could have alliances BUT in the united nations you had no more influence. it was a good system. in real if 2 nations are at war they can still conduct diplomacy. and they certainly can conduct diplomacy with their allies. in civ 7 you can't do that any longer. and that makes no sense at all.
yes i know we do not have united nations in civ 7. still the way influence goes in the negative just after razing 3 cities...is ridicolous. sorry. but who thought thats a good idea in a game where war should be the continuation of diplomacy to expand your empire??
together with the fact we have a city limit that kinda forces you to raze cities. also the AI uses to build cities close together so they overlap. so normally you have to raze 3 of them to take the capital and maybe 1 further away. so this one war would give you 3*-4 and twice -3 so minus 18 influence while we normally get 10 or 12.
so basically its negative after just one war.
people who write you can just give them the cities back in peace... no thats not what you want to do. seriously no! not on diety you kind of need one or two other capitals that have a huge population and buildings already to match the insane science and culture numbers the AI has.
but war is totally not worth it if it gives negative influence influence should NEVER be reduced.
why?
cause if u have negative influence u can't have allies. even if you have allies you can no longer renew research agreements or trade etc.
even worse you can't add independent powers any longer and loose all those free techs and civics.
and you kinda need both to compete with tech/culture numbers of AI on diety. at the start its fine but then most wonders are already built by the time you reach them despite you are only slightly behind in science.
camels need to go because it takes away the where do i want to build process. and your first cities are very important that you can place them in good locations with a lot of production or a natural wonder. not where there are camels.
yeah i think i leave it at that if people have questions to why i think certain things need to change i am happy to elaborate.
and again it does not have to happen with my suggestions but make war worth it again and give us more choices so we have to think more.
and merchants were one of those important choices. do i build a new settler or do i get a merchant first to connect my city?
and workers also played a huge role in that. do i first build a worker to improve my terrain and get more yields to the city or do i just start the wonder and then buy a worker once i raided enough barbarians ;D or do i need the gold to upgrade my slingers?
civ 6 really made you do choices. and now i just ..dont have to think much at all ;D
well without barbarians we don't need to protect our cities or traderoutes either.... i think i am happy about that cause it WAS very annoying. but it was a choice more and you had to leave some units behind. so it was a strategic element to consider. right now we dont really have anything to consider ;D
anyway to the few who still remain here have a nice day!
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