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Britain in Europe

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by really, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. really

    really Deity

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21009375
    What is the future of the UK in the European Union?

    Prime Minister David Cameron promised a referendum on Britain's position in the EU before the last general election. He is expected to outline what his position is in a speech in the next few weeks.

    What do the members of CFC think on about this?
    Will there be an in/out referendum?
    Is it a negotiation tool of some sort to try to wring something out of the EU?
    Has his tone softened recently?

    Personally I think the UK would be crazy to leave the EU. It cannot be assumed it would get a similar trade deal to that enjoyed by Norway and Switzerland. Using the threat of leaving is a dangerous negotiating tool - the other members might decide it would be easier to agree things in the future without the UK rather than to roll back on existing agreements.
     
  2. Mise

    Mise isle of lucy

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    - He's not going to have an in/out referendum. This would be the worst of all possible worlds for Cameron, because he would find himself either arguing in favour of something he desperately wants to avoid, or campaigning against his own party and backbenchers.

    - He's not getting anything out of the EU that he wouldn't otherwise have got with a less antagonistic strategy. He's managed to alienate his Conservative party in a Europe that is unprecedentedly right wing and whose political centre of gravity is, for the first time ever, decidedly in favour of austerity, budget restraint, cuts to spending and welfare, and liberal labour reform. Unbelievable how he can screw up so badly, when the Conservatives have never had such a right wing Europe to preach to.

    - His tone has softened since he vetoed the fiscal compact in Dec 2011, and he's been softer ever since. I can't see him doing what he did back then, not without the backing of other nations.

    The UK is clearly better off in the EU than out of it. This argument is like the debt ceiling in the US. It has nothing to do with what's good and right for the country, and everything to do with pandering to backbenchers and the party's base. And the consequences on business are equally dire: how can a business plan expansion in the UK if they don't even know whether we'll be in the single market in 2 years' time? It's hurting our businesses and industry. For a party that is supposed to be the party of business and industry, it seems utterly bizarre that the Conservatives are pushing for an EU exit at all. Crazy.
     
  3. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

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    Cameron is a EUPhile. Not a "sceptic" he has just been playing the UKIP voters and Conservative backbenchers for months - he has no intention of an in/out referendum. British politics are a disgrace.

    Anyway: cue our smug European "friends" coming on here telling us how they would love it when we leave the EU and our economy collapses. Or how they love to see us in dire straits.
    Our supposed European "friends" are worse then our enemies!
     
  4. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    >implying our strategy is leaving us with any friends, inside or outside of Europe

    We obviously need to stay in. The biggest problem with the single market, and especially the eurozone, is that Europe is too disunited. It needs to function more on the level of a unitary state, at least for fiscal measures.
     
  5. WindFish

    WindFish Class Warrior

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    I think we should have an in/out referendum and if the in camp gets more than 60% then we should try to manovure ourselves into the centre of Europe
     
  6. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Which is, of course, entirely different than Englishmen telling Scots how they would it when we leaves the UK and our economy collapses, because: reasons. :mischief:
     
  7. Ayn Rand

    Ayn Rand Deity

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    Of course we'll get a good trade deal if we leave, the EU basket cases can't afford to be without our markets and our pretty aircraft carriers.

    We traded with these chumps for well over two thousand years without the EU, I think we'll be just fine without them.



    But..! But..! That's different :lol:
     
  8. lovett

    lovett Deity

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    We probably would get a trade deal not too dissimiliar to that of Norway or Switzerland if we left. Obviously, there is an undeniable risk that the deal would be much worse, especially given an acrimonious split. But in any case, this is the best situation possible. That would be a considerably worse deal than that which we have now. It would be worse in this way: to trade with Europe businesses would still need to comply with EU regulations. Because of the relative size of the EU market, the vast majority of these businesses would so comply. However, Britain would no longer have any say over the content of these regulations. So, leaving the EU would not dissolve the influence of EU regulation, but would reduce our ability the effect these regulations. For rather obvious reasons, this isn't a Good Thing.
     
  9. Benefactor

    Benefactor Beneficial

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    There seems to be 3 options.

    A. Stay in it, basically as we are. IMHO the best option.
    B. Get a Norway/Switzerland style deal, others have explained why this isn't a very good idea.
    C. Try and ruin it for everyone because we can't negotiate with whole EU and expect to get what "we" want.
     
  10. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I think the UK needs to stay in the EU. As a civilizing influence. Look what happens to the Europeans when Britain leaves them to get on with things on their own.
     
  11. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Actually, I can tell you one thing, and that's how Sweden will want the UK inside the EU precisely because the two tend to agree on a lot of stuff, allowing Sweden to duck behind the UK on a number of issues. With the UK out, it won't have the cover, and it's not as if Sweden will get listened to if the UK isn't.
     
  12. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Clearly it is better to have a voice in the EU than be outside it.

     
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I prefer British prosperity within the EU over proving some backwards UKIP types wrong, actually.
     
  14. LegionSteve

    LegionSteve Motörhead

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    I demand a "shake it all about" option or I'm not voting.
     
  15. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Why do some British people dislike being in the EU so much? I get that they don't like some regulations the EU imposes, but still...
     
  16. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I think loss of sovereignty is the main issue.

    But I fancy it's a matter of perception. In a global economy, I don't think any national, or transnational, government exercises much sovereignty at all.
     
  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Genuine grievances everyone necessarily has when having to make compromises with 26 countries, irrationally amplified by a tradition of being different than the continent and dumb and/or populist politicians.
     
  18. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    Oh well then I can understand the perspective that the EU is bad then (though I have no feelings on this situation).

    People in the US still complain about the loss of sovereignty of the individual states, after all. :lol:
     
  19. ComradeDavo

    ComradeDavo Formerly God

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    I'm very much pro-EU and Britain being part of it.

    As it stands the Tories are very likely to losoe the next election anyway, and Labour have begone the process of establishing themselves as pro-EU in the 'we will stay in and reform it' sense. Which isn't actually really any different from what they were anyway, they are just puttign emphasis on the 'refrom' bit now to appeal to those sceptics who aren't completely converted to the idiotic views of UKIP.
     
  20. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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    I had the impression that the UK has been a useful brake on the EU for a long time. In the sense that it forced the EU to not go forward too quickly and and made them think twice about what they were doing. But lately it seems like the criticism has gone from being quite constructive, to just being destructive and hostile.
     

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