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Britain is leaving the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cheetah, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    Is Britain about to leave the EU? The answer, as we all know by now, is yes. The United Kingdom is leaving the European Union.



    May signed the letter triggering A50 yesterday, and at 13:30 CEST today (12:30 BST) it will be delivered to Donald Tusk.

    I think this is for the best - for the EU, and ultimately for the UK as well (when it rejoins) - but this event still feels sad in a way.

    At least now the proper positions and negotiations can be made.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  2. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Imo the main issue with Britain will be whether it can sustain the UK as a union.

    The EU either will actually change dramatically (very unlikely) or will stop existing. The coming french elections are the next step to seeing what will happen.
     
  3. Silurian

    Silurian Chieftain

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    It is very unlikely but the A50 could be withdrawn if the negotiations go badly.
     
  4. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    Actually, Article 50 does not provide for withdrawing the notification.

     
  5. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Moderator

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    Does 3. not theoretically allow the 'period' to be extended indefinitely?
     
  6. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    Yes, if both sides agree, it can be extended into perpetuity.

    But that's a big If.
     
  7. Cheetah

    Cheetah Chieftain

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    And about half an hour ago, Sir Tim Barrow, the UK's ambassador to the EU, delivered the letter to President Donald Tusk.

     
  8. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    yes, but it requires unanimity - and would require that everytime the previously agreed deadline is reached, I doubt they would just extend by indefinite - but rather by say 1 year at a time - good luck making sure there is not one single country that would just object at one point or another - especially since reapllication is allowed just following the normal way for all applicants (sure to be fast trackable)....
     
  9. innonimatu

    innonimatu Chieftain

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    "Unanimity" did not seem to me much of a problem for doing all the sovereignty-gutting moles that led to the creation of the present EU monster. Even countries that allowed their populations to vote on stuff and reject it were just told to vote again! Ans most obeyed.

    Just saying.
     
  10. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    this is not the same as requiring a unanimous decision regarding eternal extension of exit negotiations - not even close. This is not about treaty ratifications but rather decisions by the sovereign governments that do in fact still exist within the EU and that do in fact have their own concerns regarding the power structure within the EU. Britain is out of the EU now - and even extending the weaning period is not going to change that - as such there might be a point in ~ 2 years when everyone agrees that the period needs extension by some x amount of time, but that extension is not going to be for perpetuity nor is it going to be for a very long period of time.The current EU financing plan rund through 2020 and I suspect that if the period is extended (which would require a new round of voting for EU parliament in the UK and I believe that alone is something that the UK government would like to avoid) then its going to be the end of 2020 as the UK already commited to financing through that period (and some EU projects in the UK are already commited through 2020) but the UK will not be part of the period there after unless it seeks readmission.
    I am not going to argue regarding the setup of the current EU - we disagree on the character. The EU has been used as a way around domestic problems for ever by every single government what it is not is sovereignty-gutting. That national governments find it convenient to oppose measures nationally that they then support EU wide and bemoan how except for voting for that same measure they are not responsible for it and that all blame lies in Brussels is an abdication of political responsibility not of sovereignty. There is precious little the EU does that is not supported by either a super majority or all member governments.
     
  11. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Make United Kingdom England Great Again


     
    Pokurcz, AdrienIer and Vincour like this.
  12. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    Interesting Letter

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39431070


    I have not yet fully processed it, but I rather think that I approve of most of it.

    As indicated in the other thread, I am sceptical of the plan to transcribe EU law to UK law.

    I was surprised that Theresa May's letter includes withdrawal from EURATOM.

    I cannot find any reference there to the EEA.
     
  13. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    I suspect that EEA withdrawal will follow (the timeline there is 12 months instead of 24 in the EU), mostly because the eea is set up in a way that most of its policy making is done by the council and parliamentary committee, which consist of the european council members (of which the UK will cease to be a member) and the EFTA governments (of which the uk is not a member) or the respective EU parliament delegates and EFTA delegates. While the UK would still be part of the joint committee responsible for dispute resolution, further enforcement is delegated to an EFTA commitee and the EU commission. The UK would thus still be a member of the eea with only very limited influence on its rules (less than EFTA members), which I doubt is what the UK government wants. Alternatively they could apply for EFTA membership - don't know the rules there, its such a small body.

    Edit: actually EFTA membership would merely require consent by the other EFTA states (but the EEA than requires EFTA states to contribute financially - which again would be part of negotiations with the EU).
     
  14. Yeekim

    Yeekim Chieftain

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    Herzliche willkommen nach Europa!
     
  15. really

    really Chieftain

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    Today I learned that the Irish abbreviation for Brexit is Sasamach (Sasana amach / England out). The grammar is a bit off but it rolls well off the tongue. I think most people still use Brexit though.
     
  16. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    That withdrawal follows from withdrawal from the EU as EURATOM, while nominally a separate instution, is governed by the EU parliament, EU commission, EU council and EU courts with no mechanism for outside members - it does not actually have its own governing authorities anymore (since the Lisbon treaty with all its own institutions having been folded into the EU institutions). So staying a member would only be possible with ceasing all influence in it.
     
  17. Silurian

    Silurian Chieftain

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    There is no real option but to transcribe EU law into UK law.


    If you are going to change laws, case law and regulations you have to decide what you are going too change them too.

    Too do that you will have too know what the result of the exit negotiations will be.
    Hopefully we will still be able to sell financial services as we do now, but if we do it would be probable that we would have to follow EU law and regulations in that area. There is no point in producing laws that will then have to be repealled before they come into effect.

    The new laws and regulations should be those desired by the British people and business. It will take time to consult on the desired changes or removal of the law or regulations. Only so much consultation can take place at one time.

    The government does not have expertise in many areas that the EU took control of. As has been demonstrated by the time taken to get round to sending the A50 letter to ask too start negotiations. It is not in the UKs best interest to have new laws and regulations drafted by people who do not understand the subject and how to draft laws.

    There is a large body of laws, case law and regulations to be replaced. The Government will be putting its effort into getting the best out of the negotiations rather than tring to get hundreds of laws and regulations passed even if Parliament actually had the time.
     
  18. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    Ori:

    Your explanations re EEA and Euratom, in the two posts above, make good sense.

    Really:

    I never really liked the term "Brexit" anyway. If I remember correctly there was all that talk of Greece leaving the
    eurozone which resulted in the term "Grexit" and I believe that Brexit was derived by replacing the "Gr" with "Br".

    Silurian:

    Do not quite agree, but not going to argue best mechanics for skinning a cat.

    Many Remainers claimed that if we left, a right-wing UK government would free to abolish
    consumers and workers rights, poison bees and fill the sea with sewage etc etc.
    Without going into the argument as to how much EU rules did for us regarding all that,
    the approach taken by the UK government should at least mitigate such concerns.
     
  19. Lohrenswald

    Lohrenswald tired

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    wouldn't Britain get "kicked out" by virtue of leaving EU?

    yea, and Grexit was a terrible name
    pretty sure non-english-speakers made it up
     
  20. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    in the EEA the UK is one of the contracting parties as such, leaving the EU is not going to terminate their EEA membership - but the way it is set up in terms of decision making it would lack most of its current say.
     

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