Zardnaar
Deity
Was this ever discussed between the British and Germans? Say from 1871-1914. I seem to recall that it was mentioned but one of the German foreign ministers went off the deep end and screwed it up.
It was discussed. It was never really likely. It wasn't the fault of any particular British or German administration for failing to achieve some kind of formal diplomatic tie.
Most of that nonsense happened after the supposed "best point in time" for an alliance had long passed, and ended up being irrelevant to alliance discussion (but not, of course, to the overall rise in tensions). One could make a similar pointless statement about Edward VII.Though Wilhelm didn't help with his general boorishness and erratic behavoiur.
The naval program certainly contributed to the problem; the British, as usual, were paranoid of anything that could even theoretically stand up to them on the high seas, while the Germans were, as usual, pissed off that the British got to do whatever the hell they wanted without anybody ever saying anything about it. Very general and broadly speaking, of course.
Most of that nonsense happened after the supposed "best point in time" for an alliance had long passed, and ended up being irrelevant to alliance discussion (but not, of course, to the overall rise in tensions). One could make a similar pointless statement about Edward VII.
Public opinion and the press aren't particularly accurate gauges of the intentions of the foreign ministry of fin de siècle European states. Former ethnicity of the royal family of basically any state isn't really, either. Does anybody seriously think that the "Willy-Nicky" telegrams actually meant anything?But who's to say that there wouldn't have been a second opportunity if he had been half-way polite. At the time the public opinion and press were generally sympathetic to Germany. The royal house were also a German family (and still are). Governments would have probably been against, but could have been swung even then with enough public pressure.
The German foreign ministry was wary of the UK's preconditions - the Germans were to be forced to guarantee all British colonial possessions, most of which the Germans didn't care about - and were to be expected to fight the majority of any war, and suffer the majority of the casualties.
Not during the 1890s, especially the early 1890s, which is when the most serious Anglo-German alliance proposals were put forward. Things didn't switch from "semi-ally" to "inevitable foe" overnight.Was that really the issue? The Germans seemed to be aware that they were inevitably going to confront Russia.
But the fact that Germany couldn't threaten them with anything was probably a factor - because the fact that America, France, and Russia could threaten the UK played a role in the British decisions to come to terms with all of those powers between 1894 and 1907. The Germans, perhaps not unreasonably, figured that the British would come to terms with them if they were to gain something concrete out of it, namely an end to Germany's military threat to Britain.LightSpectra said:I thought the problem was that the Germans (particularly von Bülow) thought the British were an untrustworthy ally so long as it were the case that Germany couldn't threaten them with anything, hence the (bizarre) theory that naval build-up would drag Britain to the negotiating table.
Though Wilhelm didn't help with his general boorishness and erratic behavoiur.
He was just a soul whose intentions were good.Well, some people would have you believe that he was just missundaztood.
He was just a soul whose intentions were good.
Briefly, I think. Once they realized we weren't going to help them they started sending overtures to Mexico, although I can't remember how far they got.Were there ever any thoughts of a German alliance with the US?
Sure, but they weren't that serious.Were there ever any thoughts of a German alliance with the US?
Briefly, I think. Once they realized we weren't going to help them they started sending overtures to Mexico, although I can't remember how far they got.
Balance-of-power thought like that is why the war started in the first place.
There's no such thing as a "balance of power principle".Not really. It was the misunderstanding of the BOP principle by European leaders at the time. Bismark *had* been doing a pretty good job of keeping the peace
BoP is an incorrect principle. It was disproven 20 years ago. And it had nothing to do with Britain's decision to enter the war anyway. Besides, France and Russia were both more powerful than Germany, so the argument would be incorrect even if it was truly Britain's reason for entering the war.Not really. It was the misunderstanding of the BOP principle by European leaders at the time. Bismark *had* been doing a pretty good job of keeping the peace
Briefly, I think. Once they realized we weren't going to help them they started sending overtures to Mexico, although I can't remember how far they got.