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Broke

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by truckster, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    Had a look on your save.The reasons for your finacial problems are too high corruption, too high unit support and ineffective building.

    Stop building wealth.Build wealth only is there is really no other option which makes sense.You build wealth in cities which don't have marketplace or courthouse, you don't have courthouses in cities with 50% corruption.Also it don't make sense to build expensive cathedrals before courthouses in corrupted cities.Courthouses are even worth if they only convert are few shields and commerce from red to blue.It stacks over time and get multiplied by factories or trade improvemnts.

    Consider switching to Monarchy and go to war to use your units.I have switched goverment to see effect.Your income is nearly the same.You loose the advantage of lower corruption and trade bonus in republic due the insane unit support.Either switch government or disband units.Another nice sideeffect of Monarchy is the MP, which allows you to work more tiles, because your population is happier.Less lux or entertainers this way.More worked tiles mean more commerce and shields.Don't use entertainers under normal circumstances, rather set lux to 10%.A entertainer means a lost working citizien.

    Stop using the governor...
     
  2. Tukker

    Tukker Chieftain

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    when is it the best time to make a courthouse in a city if it has 50% or more corruption?
     
  3. namliaM

    namliaM Deity

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    I build a courthouse nearly everywhere that has more than 1 lost commerce.

    Exept when the town is "totaly corrupt", not exactly sure when that happens.
    There is a formula out there. It has to do with distance from the capital & number of city's (total). OCN (optimal city number) springs to mind in there as well. Then again bringing in the FP (Forbidden Palace) which reduces corruption to 5% for the most distant city :) and raises the OCN thus reducing the % corruption in your whole empire :)

    Later with/in communism you have Police (like courthouse) & secret police (Like FP) which reduce corruption even more.
     
  4. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    As namliaM already posted, it is best when you build the courthouse as soon as there is more than one corrupted commerce or shields.If you have cities with 50% corruption like in your game now, build the courthouse immediately.
     
  5. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Many ood points already made. The reason you have massive corruption is DISTANCE. You have a huge river by 02 and not one town founded on it. Lots of open land near 02.

    So you have missed the commerce form those river tiles and that is repeated elsewhere to one degree or another.

    No research, not even one scientist? How were you planning to win this game? Skipped knight and are not on your way to calvs, so it coudl get ugly.

    Too many entertainers, you should have none with size 12 and 4 luxs.

    Slip 10% lux on the slider and use those citizens. It is goo that you have mined, but you wasted lots of worker turns minning tiles that cannot be worked until Sanitation.

    Why not chop that forest and use a mined tile?

    I would not make any cath at all and surely no colosseums. Those are for metros only. You have to pay maint on them.

    If you have a tighter spacing you would have more cities and that means more unit support. Those core cities would not have so many tiles that coudl not be used and the workers could have kept up better.
     
  6. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Now troops, this is ugly IMO.

    49 warriors, are you crazy (sorry).
    37 spears (I forget the level, I often build none below Deity)
    16 horses
    13 pikes
    0 swords
    1 LB
    3 MDI

    This with Calvs soon to show up. It looks like SS is not allowed.

    Trade for Chiv and get some knights. You cannot defend so much land with so many fronts with 1 move units, it will be cost prohibitive.

    Pop out some settlers and fill in, abandon a city or two if you have to make things fit better. Sell of some structures such had granaries in size 12 towns. I would not expect to build any hospitals and if you do, you can pop a granary or better yet capture the Pyramids.
     
  7. 0Shadowfax0

    0Shadowfax0 Chieftain

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    hmmm maybe the upkeep on your cities is costing you alot. I have never even had close to 30 cities, and I am sometimes even dragged under by city upkeep. Maybe if you took a while to fix your cities themsleves, then u may reduce ur debt
     
  8. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    BTW did you see the archer +settler about to plant a town next to your capitol? I would never let that happen, it must have taken them a long time to get there.

    Anyway you should have had a town out there anyway. Do not expect to see the town flip real soon, that is not a given.

    At this stage of the game, I do not want any beachheads in my lands. Those knights and then calvs can race out and do a lot of damage. It will force me to have too many defenders in place for protection.

    In the mid to late middle ages, I want my troops smacking them, not sitting in towns.
     
  9. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    Upkeep for buildings is not the problem here.None of his cities is too corrupt for having improvements.Rather the opposite - missing courthouses and marketplaces.
     
  10. Tman65

    Tman65 Warlord

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    Truckster -
    There are three areas I'll offer advice on, units, buildings, and city placement:

    UNITS
    1. Get rid of all your warriors and spearman...this alone should boost your economy quite a bit.
    2. As you are doing this, move your defensive units to your border towns and consolidate...if you were attacked now you'd lose a lot of towns before the units in your core could arrive to help.
    3. The best defense is a good offense....your horseman will not fare very well against knights (attack of 2 against a def. of 3)...you need to upgrade.
    4. You have a lot of workers. This is good. They seem to be mostly working alone...this is bad. Team them up in groups of 2 - 4 and they'll get the job done a lot faster.
    5. Artillery. Build more of it...lots more. Having arty along means you don't need as many offensive units along (relatively speaking) because you aren't losing as many in your attacks.

    IMPROVEMENTS
    1. You need to build more marketplaces. I usually build them anywhere I'm making more than 10 currency (after corruption). Not only do they boost your economy, they make all those luxuries you have more effective at pleasing the people...I can't remember how many happy faces 4 lux makes on Chieftan, but it would help. Finally, they pave the way for lots of other commerce builders like banks, etc.
    2. Build more courthouses...as already mentioned.
    3. You don't need all of those granaries...most of your cities aren't going to see the irrigated tiles they need to get above size 6 for a LONG time.
    4. You don't need all of those barracks....put them in your most productive cities only. Every body else can focus on settlers, workers, artillery, etc.

    CITY PLACEMENT
    1. You have way too many cities that are placed one tile away from the sea. Each coastal tile adds 3 commerce to your coffers. With a harbour it also adds two food instead of one. This can really add up to a lot of $ when spread over your entire empire.
    2. You are too spread out. Build your cities a bit closer together so you don't have as much wasted territory not being used.
    3. Build next to rivers and lakes as often as possible. Tiles adjacent too them make extra commerce and a city next to them can grow past size 6 without an aquaduct.

    That's about it for now. Try reading the war academy articles or following along with some secession games to pick up the nuances of the game. GK2 is a classic and the discussions on city placement at the beginning of the thread are very helpful.

    Above all, hang in there and have fun!
     
  11. oldStatesman

    oldStatesman Cybernaut

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    I am a newbie player too...(C3C 1.22) ... I found I had difficulty making large amounts of cash at Chiefton...as I have moved up in level the quantity of cash increases. In chiefton I was lucky to have a treasury in the hundreds ...at Regent I can always build it up to many thousands by dropping my sci slider to 0% and doing minimum research with one Science Guy. I seldom use the lux slider - I instead build lots of marketplaces, obtain as many luxs as possible through trade or conquest - and use entertainers on an as needed basis only in cities that need the extra happiness.

    Roads/Railraods, fiscal city improvements such as the MP, Bank, Stock Market, Commercial Dock and Wall street are necessities in cities that can support them if you want to make a lot of cash surplus. Adam Smith's also helps - free cash producing improvements rock!

    Personally I always spend my excess over 1000 every turn - it ain't earning interest and it ain't doing me no good sitting in the bank. Much more useful and satisfying to have an extra sleek brand spanking new Fighter Jet or Armored vehicle to play with... ;)
     
  12. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    You may want to take a close look at those Docks. They add pollution, so even if you have enough water tiles to support them, it may not be a bargain. I find that an extra 1 or 2 gold is not worth making me build anti pollution structures or clean up the pollution.
     
  13. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    I think one unit of pollution is not a big deal.I have factories around anyway and need to clean up their pollution.Ok, if the city has only one or two water tiles, I sometimes skip them because I found a better way to spend my shields, but never because of the pollution.And for 3 or more water tiles they are definitly worth to build, IMO.
     
  14. oldStatesman

    oldStatesman Cybernaut

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    Absolutely. Do the math. Example - You have 10 uncorrupt coastal cities with an average of 5 workable sea/ocean tiles each - you net +3 gold after cost. If you have 50 uncorrupt sea/ocean tiles being worked in 10 Coastal towns, (some may only have 2 sea/ocean, some may have 8 or more - don't look at individual cities but rather the total overall uncorrupt tiles being worked), that averages out to an extra 30gpt (+50 g from CD - 20 g cost for 10 docks = 30gpt net profit). That adds up to 300 extra g's total over 10 turns...3000 extra g's total over 100 turns. Even add in the extra worker cost - say 5 extra workers to support to help with the added pollution (it doesn't strike every city every turn - that 1 extra pollution shield is not going to increase overall pollution that signifigantly, plus you need to have workers to clean up the pollution from factories, overpop, etc anyway) - that lowers the net to 25g per turn, 250 extra gold coins every ten turns, 2500 over 100. Not insignificant at all. JMHO.

    Edit: if you build ASTC GW the CD's are free...an even bigger profit will be made. And for seafaring civ's where a CD only costs I believe 80 shields it is a bargain! :)
     
  15. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    I did not say they were not profitiable, they surely are. I do not build many factories in games at say demi and only a few at higher levels. It is not that they are not useful, but by the time I get to docks, I should have things locked down and do not need to bother and make more work (clean up).

    I often go back and sell the few factories I made, leaving only the army city, unless I am going for space launch (very rare). I don't use hospitals or if I do it will be one city or two. Unless you play out to building MA's, you just don't need that stuff.

    Do interpret that to mean I think they are bad, only like cath, not needed.
     
  16. oldStatesman

    oldStatesman Cybernaut

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    Guess it depends on how you like to play...I am a builder/trader - war is fun but in small doses to me. I get more satisfaction out of a long game ... if war is your cup of tea that is cool... :) . But the many strategies Civ provides are great...that is what brought me to Civ and has kept me around learning it - it can be played in endless variations. (It is the only game I play...no time for more than one ... in fact before I stumbled across Civ in January I rarely played any pc gmes at ALL. CIV3 is the first game I actually bought, after trying a demo of Civ2 I stumbled across late one sleepless night online, in over 6 years.) And that is the most important thing - to enjoy the time spent. :) But the poster was looking for ways to make extra cash...and CD's are a good one in that regard.
     
  17. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    No doubt, I only wanted to add an aside. It is not always correct to do anything, that is what is good. You have to adapt from time to time.

    I used to make all those things without regard, then found I do not always need even factories. Making them is not wrong, I did not mean to imply it was, so sorry if I did.
     
  18. Peepers

    Peepers On the road again

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    I would disagree with this one. Since walls cost no maint, and are appropriate for towns on or near the border, they remain practical until the town grows to city. They also sell back for 5 or so, giving little boost to a flagging economy. Of course, don't build them where they'll be of no use, but don't sell them all as useless. They've saved my bacon many times.

    Mostly agree about temples, but the cathedral, once built, is economical at three content and 3 cpt for two gpt. Especially so once Sistine acquired.
     
  19. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Walls cost production to built. This in a town that has little production and should be doing something more useful. The time to make a wall is if you are under attack from a force you could not otherwise handle.

    This is why I try to slap one up on my beachhead towns. They are going to come under attack right away. I expect to see hundreds of units over the next bunch of turns and the wall will save units. Units that I had to transort to get there, so it is a bargain.

    Surely I do not need walls at level like emperor, in fact I do not need them at any level, except for special situations.

    Cath are what, 160 shields? Man that is a lot of production. Sistines, never build it, why I have no cath to take advanage of it and the AI has it built before I even get to that tech. I don't care about culture, I am in last place for that and will stay there until I have whacked 1/2 of the civs.

    Don't need the cost of building or maint for cath, all cities are size 12 or less. Later I will have taken lux from others amd the markets can keep all the core smiling just fine.

    10-15 cities at 160 + maint, that is a lot of units, no thanks.
     
  20. Jove

    Jove Not Lacking Altitude

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    A small point, but try selling maps. You can get at least one gold for a territory map, another gold for a world map, per civ, as long as you know anything about the world that the AI doesn't. If you're at peace with 5 civs, you may be able to earn 10 gpt if you keep uncovering the map, and maybe much more if things work out. We're not talking vast fortunes here, but selling maps doesn't have negative consequences that I'm aware of, so it is basically free gold that you might as well nab- unless you're sure you'll get the AI gold anyway.
    Oh, it's both a pain and only particularly useful if done religiously. Have fun!
     

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