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broken wonders/world projects

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by gdambrauskas, May 21, 2012.

  1. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    There was a suggestion that the Via Appia wonder would only do the upgrade to paved roads between cities. However that needs some extra work and would be based on something Koshling was working on with the pathing routine. So a later implementation of this wonder and The Golden Spike wonder will not upgrade all routes.
     
  2. Epona222

    Epona222 Warlord

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    Interesting - not sure how that would work in my games, because I tend to put a route wherever I can get a route bonus on certain improvements, and they are all connected to my cities which are all connected together - I can't think of an example where I built a route that was not between cities in some way - if I can't see the difference between a tile to the north of a city and the tile to the north east of the city, both with routes that connect to other routes that go between cities (does the main route between cities go through the tile to the north or to the north east, they are both equally valid), I am not sure how the game will be able to determine it.

    I think I'll just have to not build it, because my workers had nothing to do for ages and I hate that - but it's annoying to have access to a Wonder that you don't want to build and have it sitting there in your city screen and tempting you, because wonders ought to provide something you want - I never used to avoid building wonders when they became available, but now there's the 'library in every city' national wonder that I used to love and now can't ever afford to build as there's no point having a library in every city, especially new cities which can easily end up with negative income from startup buildings (healer's hut in every city is the other one, also no hammers in new cities due to free Colosseum from the Flavian Amphitheater wonder) - and Via Appia and Three Gorges Dam will join them because they kind of rob effort from the game, make it too easy and hand stuff to you that should require a bit of effort. I guess it probably seems alright if you automate your workers, but I never do that and I like to have orders to give them! They are getting way too used to the 'sleep' button because they already run out of things to do before I ever tried out that wonder. :D
     
  3. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    No I mean that the via appia builds a direct between cities not everywhere. There is a rather complex problem about a salesperson working out the shortest route to visit all the cities. It would be like that.
     
  4. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    What about this for Golden Spike? Instead of upgrading every road to railroads, it just builds a transcontinental railroad -- the squares directly west and east of the building city get railroads, stretching out until they hit the ocean. I think that would not be that difficult to code.
     
  5. Sgtslick

    Sgtslick Emperor

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    regarding the hammer for water building/wonder. Why not just instead make an improvement made by fishing boats on kelp.

    Improvement begins in renaissance around here- call kelp harvester or kelp farm or something. Just gives +1 hammer, then in modern era it can upgrade be upgraded to get maybe +1 food and +1 commerce too.

    Then in future era it could be used as a renewable power source maybe giving another +1 hammer.

    I think being able to plant kelp would be good too.
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    There is already a "kelp harvester" improvement made by fishing boats on kelp. It may be a bit late but it is there. I don't think anyone has tried to plant kelp anywhere in the world, have they?
     
  7. gdambrauskas

    gdambrauskas Warlord

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    yeah, I am not up to speed with c2c, tried it long time ago, had many oos in mp games and went back to rand. My changes were in rand code base, so it's just an example of some broken wonders. I did not want to get in c2c and then have a massive agreement with my friend on what we can't build:)
    I don't object to modmod, but isn't it better to create a forum post with changelist, let people voice opinion and implement it once? I certainly don't have the time to do things twice...
     
  8. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    If these fixes are to RAND then they are not really compatible with C2C due to all the changes made. I'll still make you a mod but for RAND not C2C.
     
  9. gdambrauskas

    gdambrauskas Warlord

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    thanks. I am ok handling that myself. I am also on the most stable version of rand, so it's not the latest version. Save the time for stabilizing c2c:)
     
  10. Epona222

    Epona222 Warlord

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    Oh god there's a wonder that does it for railroads too? Why bother building workers then, if you can build a wonder that does it all for you?

    Question: Did the via Appia magically pave roads as far away as Northern Gaul? No it didn't, and it's ridiculous to have a wonder in the game do so, it might make sense on a small map, but when you're playing on gigantic it's just ridiculous. (same with the golden spike, if that does the same thing for railroads, I hope I'm not going to find these wonders for every route upgrade). Having all the paths/roads within the city vicinity of the city that built the wonder upgraded would be a massive boon, anything more than that is overkill, ridiculous, makes my workers redundant, gives me nothing to do, makes the game boring.

    As a lover of "Railroad Tycoon" type games I say make it stop, I want to make routes myself, not have them all auto-upgraded - that sucks - it's not a wonder, so much as a 'wonder why I'm playing, if I have nothing left for my workers to do'. Please understand that some of us take pleasure from planning routes, going to the effort of building them etc.

    Please at least have it as a startup option where you can turn these route-upgrading wonders off - I sometimes play MP and it would unbalance the game horribly if one player got to the wonders first and got everything upgraded to paved roads or railroads with absolutely zero effort or expenditure (other than 8 or so turns building the wonder) - it must provide a massive and unbalanced advantage to one player in MP. Please allow the start up option of disabling these wonders.
     
  11. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    You can take them out. Those two wonders are mine, and they are completely modular. Both the Wonder folders are in Assets/Modules/Vokarya/Wonders. If you delete them, the game should not even notice they are missing.

    I will tone down the Golden Spike, so that it only builds a railroad east and west of the building city, and stops once it hits the ocean. I can think of a very theoretical fix to Via Appia so that it only builds a road from the city that builds it to the capital, but I'm not quite sure how to code it.
     
  12. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Wow, a rail line that crosses barbarian space and other nations in search of an ocean.:mischief:

    @Epona222 they are wonders they should make you wonder:mischief:.

    If I just had the time to program these the way I think they should go. IE shortest journey between all cities and links to forts especially for the Via Appia which represents the Roman military roads.
     
  13. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    The test for Golden Spike's railroad building (and Via Appia's Paved Roads is very similar) is currently this:
    Code:
    if pPlot.getOwner() == iPlayer and pPlot.getArea() == pCity.getArea() and (pPlot.getRouteType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString("ROUTE_ROAD") or pPlot.getRouteType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString("ROUTE_PAVED"))
    So it adds the railroad if
    • You own the tile
    • It's on the same continent as the city with the Spike
    • It already has a Road or Paved Road

    I was simply planning on changing the code to:
    Code:
    if pPlot.getOwner() == iPlayer and pPlot.getArea() == pCity.getArea() and pPlot.getX() == pCity.getX() 
    So it will add the railroad if:
    • You own the tile
    • It's on the same continent as the Spike
    • It's directly east or west of the Spike

    I will have to test this to make sure it works. It probably shouldn't take too long.
     
  14. Epona222

    Epona222 Warlord

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    That sounds absolutely superb - a nice little bit of a bonus, but not over the top - sounds like a great solution and that is a wonder I would be eager to build. :)

    I worked out how to take it out, the problems come when you have a group of players in MP who need to be persuaded to make the same adjustments - I already have 2 installs, I use the SVN and a few personal tweaks for my SP game and latest official release for MP games as it's easier to co-ordinate that way - it can be difficult enough reaching agreement on startup options without UN diplomatic intervention iykwim (and it's always worse reaching agreement with relatives than with a group of strangers!), let alone making adjustments beyond that, fiddling with XML files and deleting folders etc. :D
     
  15. platyping

    platyping Sleeping Dragon

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    You will end up with broken railroads when you have a rival city in the middle of the railway line
     
  16. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    I have an algorithm under construction that will join each city (and fort for Via Appia) to the network but in a minimalist way. You don't get all connected all or the shortest route to all cities (and forts) but you do end up with a tree starting from the city that builds the wonder to its nearest neighbours and then branching out from there. Cities in disconnected regions would be connected to each other in a similar way. It basically gives you the skeleton of your final network. I include forts in the via Appia since the wonder represents the old Roman Military roads that connected Rome to, for example, Vindolandia on Hadrian's Wall.

    I just need to convert my pen and paper algorithm to something the computer can do.
     
  17. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    Yes, I realized that the railroad would be going across water and into volcanoes about 2 minutes after I posted that. I'm beginning to come up with a slightly more complicated piece of code that will route the railroad around obstructions. Like this:

    • First, check to see if each square in a direct line east or west of the city is valid for the railroad (you own it and it's not water or volcano or tar pit or owned by an enemy) and if it is, put the railroad there.
    • If it's not valid, find the nearest square in line north or south with the invalid square and put the railroad there.
    • If you had to go 2 or more squares north or south, connect that square to the rest. This would be the difficult part to code.
     
  18. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Hey Platyping, noticed you have quite a few wonders you've developed... how about bringing them to C2C for us? :)
     
  19. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    I went through and modified and merged many but could not keep up. I have a list of the ones I rejected somewhere. Some of his are updated wonders by Tsentom, GIR and others which we already have.
     
  20. Epona222

    Epona222 Warlord

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    Don't know if this is feasible, but how about just building a route from the city that built the Wonder, to whichever city on the same continent is furthest from it?

    That would be useful and provide a good bonus to the player who built it, but not OTT.
     

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