Brothels now legal in Canada

[say1988]

Why is it wrong?

 

[Arwon]

This is wrong.

We make things illegal because they are wrong, not because it's easy to enforce the laws.

The issue isn't "it's hard to enforce" but that prohibition of prostitution creates greater wrongs than it's trying to fix.

That and there's very little intrinsic wrongness in the simple exchange of money for sexual activity.

 

[Defiant47]

Why is it wrong?

Prostitutes should not have the ability to go into the sex trade, because the only reason they would go through with it is due to a major deficiency in the capitalist system we find ourselves in.

Almost no women would "choose" to be in the sex trade if other options were feasibly available for them. Restricting the freedom of those that would genuinely wish to become such prostitutes is an acceptable price to pay in order to deny the choice from those women who would feel forced into it financially or otherwise.

 

[Defiant47]

The issue isn't "it's hard to enforce" but that prohibition of prostitution creates greater wrongs than it's trying to fix.

It is the "hard to enforce", because apparently prohibition creates greater wrongs. We make it illegal because no women should engage in prostitution. We shouldn't legalize it because women are engaging in prostitution anyways.

That and there's very little intrinsic wrongness in the simple exchange of money for sexual activity.

Yes, there is, when that money is necessary for basic living conditions.

If, say, every prostitute was provided* a free education and/or a continuous supply of money that is sufficient for food and shelter (etc), then prostitution should be legal. (it would be a bit more complicated and in depth than that, but this is the idea behind it)

EDIT: * - clarification: provided this before any sums gained from prostitution

 

[JollyRoger]

If a woman wants to trade sex for financial security she should get married.

 

[say1988]

We make it illegal because no women should engage in prostitution.

Why?

From what I understand, you are arguing that people should only become prostitutes if it is not out of financial necessity and if that is the case you are all right with it.

You also seem to be saying that women are forced into prostitution by circumstances. In that case, shouldn't we allow them to have basic protections and security, at the very least? Rather than giving them criminal records that make it that much harder to rise out of their situation.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Making it legal won't solve all problems. Legalized prostitution is very expensive. I heard $20 and $100 mentioned above, and that's not even close to the actual price. You could end up paying $400 or most likely more (not that I would know about such things- I only heard from a friend ). So because legalized prostitution is so expensive in my state, you are still going to have illegal street trade for poor people who can't afford those prices..

Just because legalized prostitution in Nevada is so hopelessly screwed up doesn't mean it would be everyplace else. In 2008, the basic price for 15-20 minutes of a prostitute's time in Amsterdam was €50 according to articles easily googled. The cost was around $40 in the late 90s.

Prostitutes should not have the ability to go into the sex trade, because the only reason they would go through with it is due to a major deficiency in the capitalist system we find ourselves in.

They don't call it the world's oldest profession for nothing.

Almost no women would "choose" to be in the sex trade if other options were feasibly available for them. Restricting the freedom of those that would genuinely wish to become such prostitutes is an acceptable price to pay in order to deny the choice from those women who would feel forced into it financially or otherwise.

Virtually all women who choose to do it where it is legal do so quite willingly. The better ones can make 6 figure incomes, and even the average ones can make $60-80K per year.

 

[Puck Nutty]

Making it legal won't solve all problems. Legalized prostitution is very expensive. I heard $20 and $100 mentioned above, and that's not even close to the actual price. You could end up paying $400 or most likely more (not that I would know about such things- I only heard from a friend ). So because legalized prostitution is so expensive in my state, you are still going to have illegal street trade for poor people who can't afford those prices.

I deleted one word in the quote that I feel shouldn't be used around mixed company. But you'd be surprised how many women like doing that. They'd rather do that than clean bathrooms, or mop floors. And like I said above, in brothels the price is a lot more than $20. At least 10 times that price.

Well, a quick Google search tells me that "Window Women" in Amsterdam will charge you 30 Euros for a quick 20 minute romp, whereas posh sex clubs will charge 300 Euros and up for an hour (plus tip).

 

[Cutlass]

Prostitutes should not have the ability to go into the sex trade, because the only reason they would go through with it is due to a major deficiency in the capitalist system we find ourselves in.

Almost no women would "choose" to be in the sex trade if other options were feasibly available for them. Restricting the freedom of those that would genuinely wish to become such prostitutes is an acceptable price to pay in order to deny the choice from those women who would feel forced into it financially or otherwise.

Many do. It pays so much more than many other kinds of work.

 

[Puck Nutty]

The weather would put most of them off. But if they want to spend money up here, I am all for it (I would be surprised if it didn't already happen to some degree between Windsor and Detroit, and other similar locations, for just the booze though it may have been curtailled since 9-11).

Global warming, baby. It was pretty cold today, but we've been getting summer temperatures all week here in Toronto.

 

[Arwon]

It is the "hard to enforce", because apparently prohibition creates greater wrongs. We make it illegal because no women should engage in prostitution. We shouldn't legalize it because women are engaging in prostitution anyways.

These are just assertions with no reasoning behind them. They also carry an implicit assumption that the default legal position of prostitution is prohibition as though this is some sort of natural order.

Further, it presumes to know better than individuals themselves what is in their best interests. Perhaps you should instead listen to sex worker lobby groups/unions/peak bodies like the Scarlet Alliance or the International Union of Sex Workers or your country's own Guild for Erotic Labour and Sex Professionals of Canada and their own approaches to the harmful aspects of the industry.

 

[Defiant47]

Why?

From what I understand, you are arguing that people should only become prostitutes if it is not out of financial necessity and if that is the case you are all right with it.

Women should only become prostitutes by choice. Their circumstances and the money-centric capitalistic world we find ourselves in distorts that choice.

You also seem to be saying that women are forced into prostitution by circumstances. In that case, shouldn't we allow them to have basic protections and security, at the very least? Rather than giving them criminal records that make it that much harder to rise out of their situation.

We cannot allow them "basic protections and security" because if we found out they were doing it, we should stop them immediately. We can't give protections to something wrong and illegal just because it makes it better for everyone if we do.

Virtually all women who choose to do it where it is legal do so quite willingly. The better ones can make 6 figure incomes, and even the average ones can make $60-80K per year.

Many do. It pays so much more than many other kinds of work.

That's the problem. How many of those women do you think would still do it if they had other options and/or if it paid the same as some other regular job?

We cannot let the capitalism in our world be allowed to let our women be exploited on the basis of money.

These are just assertions with no reasoning behind them. They also carry an implicit assumption that the default legal position of prostitution is prohibition as though this is some sort of natural order.

You will note my "reasoning" in this and previous posts.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I would suggest it isn't the women who are getting exploited in the majority of cases. After all, just about any woman can have sex for free whenever she wants. And based on the number of women who engage in sexual acts with male strippers for money, I think many are far more willing to pay for their own pleasures than many men will readily accept.

There isn't anything inherently exploitative about basic free enterprise.

 

[Puck Nutty]

Robert Pickton is a serial killer from British Columbia who was convicted of killing 6 prostitutes in the Vancouver area. He claims to have killed 49, but this cannot be verified one way or the other.

The daughter of one of his victims claims this decision will give slavers more legal protections, since the girls will be indoors rather than out on the street. Thus, police will have to aquire warrants and conduct raids, etc.

I'm not sure I buy this argument since slavers are going to have to keep their girls somewhere, and police will still need a warrant to conduct a search either way.

 

[Cutlass]

That's the problem. How many of those women do you think would still do it if they had other options and/or if it paid the same as some other regular job?

We cannot let the capitalism in our world be allowed to let our women be exploited on the basis of money.

I don't know. At the medium part of the spectrum, strippers and hookers can make $500-600 a night. At the high end, 10 times that. How many jobs pay that kind of money to the unskilled?

 

[Luckymoose]

Women should only become prostitutes by choice. .

If it is legal there is no one forcing them to do it. They set the wages and the hours. It is a choice. If men can get paid to die for a country, women can get paid for sex.

 

[Defiant47]

I don't know. At the medium part of the spectrum, strippers and hookers can make $500-600 a night. At the high end, 10 times that. How many jobs pay that kind of money to the unskilled?

Again - exactly the problem. Too much financial pressure for women to sell their bodies in order to make an "obviously it's their choice" argument.

What if a woman can't find a job? Or minimum wage isn't sufficient? Will she be "choosing" to engage in the sex trade?

If it is legal there is no one forcing them to do it. They set the wages and the hours. It is a choice. If men can get paid to die for a country, women can get paid for sex.

That's the illusion of capitalism. If I can choose my enslaver, I'm still free, right?

 

[kochman]

Prostitutes should not have the ability to go into the sex trade, because the only reason they would go through with it is due to a major deficiency in the capitalist system we find ourselves in.

Almost no women would "choose" to be in the sex trade if other options were feasibly available for them. Restricting the freedom of those that would genuinely wish to become such prostitutes is an acceptable price to pay in order to deny the choice from those women who would feel forced into it financially or otherwise.

Surprised to see you supporting the legislation of morality.

In countries like Holland and Germany, many women do it as an easy way to get money, not that they don't have other options.

No one forces them to do it (generally).

 

[Evie]

Many people are "forced" into lots of activities, including virtual slavery to corportations for a pittance. Some - many - of these jobs can be damaging to health, damaging psychologically, etc.

Why should this particular job get special scrutiny to make sure the choice isn't dictated by economic conditions?

Because of the unreasonable western taboo about sex?

 

[Arwon]

Women should only become prostitutes by choice. Their circumstances and the money-centric capitalistic world we find ourselves in distorts that choice.



We cannot allow them "basic protections and security" because if we found out they were doing it, we should stop them immediately. We can't give protections to something wrong and illegal just because it makes it better for everyone if we do.





That's the problem. How many of those women do you think would still do it if they had other options and/or if it paid the same as some other regular job?

We cannot let the capitalism in our world be allowed to let our women be exploited on the basis of money.



You will note my "reasoning" in this and previous posts.

Are male prostitutes also exploited to the point?

Why is it inherently exploitation? When sex workers say they are freely choosing to do it, are they lying or stupid?

Especially though, why is this exploitation different from that which drives people to work in any other job?