BtS archipelago high seas tropics monarch

Sengir · Mar 13, 2009

I think in the long run it's better to get the worker out first. That way we can speed up the wb with a chop, mine the hill. that will be a lot quicker than the other way around. Then we can either build + whip lighthouse, regrow while building another wb, settler > TGLH

About scouting: it is important to scout the island before settling, as your culture can only reach over to water tiles, so you have to know where possible crossings are going to be and place cities accordlingly.

Opinions? (Be quick cause I'm about to play

)

nocho · Mar 13, 2009

It just seems that a worker has so little to do right now apart from one chop and one mine. Well, you could start prechopping all the forest for future wonders...

Arlborn · Mar 13, 2009

Sengir said:
I think in the long run it's better to get the worker out first. That way we can speed up the wb with a chop, mine the hill. that will be a lot quicker than the other way around. Then we can either build + whip lighthouse, regrow while building another wb, settler > TGLH

About scouting: it is important to scout the island before settling, as your culture can only reach over to water tiles, so you have to know where possible crossings are going to be and place cities accordlingly.

Opinions? (Be quick cause I'm about to play )

Well, there is already 2 turns of production in the worker. I don't know, do what you think is best. Maybe worker and let him mine a hill(they all are covered by forests no?) while you train a workboat?

Sengir · Mar 13, 2009

The worker might be a bit bored yes, so he can go prechopping

Sengir · Mar 13, 2009

I've played my (boring) turns:

Turn 0 (22): Decide to stick with the worker
Turn 1 (23): whack enter
Turn 2 (24): whack enter
Turn 3 (25): whack enter
Turn 4 (26): whack enter
Turn 5 (27): whack enter
Turn 6 (28): something happens:

Spoiler :

also: whack enter
Turn 7 (29): whack enter
Turn 8 (30): whack enter
Turn 9 (31): whack enter
Turn 10 (32): whack enter
Turn 11 (33): whack enter
Turn 12 (34): whack enter
Turn 13 (35): worker done, sent him to the hill directly besides the city, queue in wb
Turn 14 (36): start chopping
Turn 15 (37): Sailing in, think about the wheel/pottery but decide to stick with the plan and pick masonry
Turn 16 (38): whack enter
Turn 17 (39): whack enter
Turn 18 (40): chopping finished (30h) 2 turns left on wb
Turn 19 (41): start mining
Turn 20 (42): wb finished, pick lighthouse.

Stop here as there may be different opinions on what to build next.
I would go lighthouse (whip) regrow with next wb > settler TGLH, but that's just my opinion.

Don't explore with this wb; the food will be necessary for the whip. The worker can prechop the forested hills and the grassland river forest. I would chop at least one forest for TGLH to free up another hill. Whipping TGLH is also a possibility.

The hill the worker is mining atm should be worked immediately upon finishing. You might want to switch to a forested hill after growing for one extra hammer instead of food.

Dotmap of our grand island:

Spoiler :

Reasoning:
Yellow dot picks up both wines. Too bad settling on one of them is the only option. Placed this way it can also borrow a crab from Carthage.
Red dot: Placing it not on the northern tip we get more coast and less ocean = more commerce.

Red dot should be settled first of course.

Arlborn · Mar 13, 2009

We should first explore something of the other isles around us before settling in my (humble)opnion.

Also, you didn't revolt to slavery, did you? Something to watch for!

Good set by the way.

EDIT: Rooster:

Arlborn
Sengir just played
Loki Strikes playing
Dave Hartwick on deck
nocho
silk1976
dualmaster

silk1976 · Mar 13, 2009

Nice whacking job, Sengir

My thoughts on build are that the LH isn't a major priority yet. It just gives +1 :food:

per water tile (maybe its coast tile specifically, but doesn't matter), right? It seems that we have so much food as it is that getting just 1 or 2 more :food:

wouldn't be worth the :hammers:

or the

at this point. Obviously once we are working 4-5 water tiles, the equation changes. At least for me - but I could be wrong.

I'd rather :whipped:

the settler and settle red dot next. That'll get our :commerce:

and

up a little more quickly.

Sengir · Mar 13, 2009

Crap, didn't check for slavery, simply assumed we were allready in it :crazyeye:

, well no harm done yet as whipping wasn't feasible yet, but revolt should be done asap.

Scouting before settling? with the wb you mean? That's still possible, the wb is on the clams but can still move to explore. Not sure about it though. Extra food for whipping will be nice. Scouting out other civs is nice as well... :dunno:

Lighthouse is also necessary for TGLH, but it can wait until after the settler as well, that's why I stopped here (not because I was exhausted from these intense turns

) The problem with the settler is that it stops growth, so we would probably be better of building another wb first to grow to size 4, then build/whip settler.

Arlborn · Mar 13, 2009

Sengir said:
Crap, didn't check for slavery, simply assumed we were allready in it , well no harm done yet as whipping wasn't feasible yet, but revolt should be done asap.

Scouting before settling? with the wb you mean? That's still possible, the wb is on the clams but can still move to explore. Not sure about it though. Extra food for whipping will be nice. Scouting out other civs is nice as well...

Lighthouse is also necessary for TGLH, but it can wait until after the settler as well, that's why I stopped here (not because I was exhausted from these intense turns ) The problem with the settler is that it stops growth, so we would probably be better of building another wb first to grow to size 4, then build/whip settler.

No harm done with the slavery! I just didn't revolt in my turnset because I didn't want to give to the next a civilization in revolt!

About exploring, I meant only the nearby land, maybe there is somewhere better to settle the second city very near us, but I don't mind settling there anyway, will have to be done one time or another.

silk1976 · Mar 13, 2009

unless we can build a boat with cargo capacity right away (does sailing give that to us? I dont recall off the top of my head), I'd say settle red dot for the increased :commerce:

and

.

If we can build a galley with sailing, than scouting around might be better - especially if we can hook a metal, or stone (to help with the wonder building).

Arlborn · Mar 13, 2009

silk1976 said:
unless we can build a boat with cargo capacity right away (does sailing give that to us? I dont recall off the top of my head), I'd say settle red dot for the increased and .

If we can build a galley with sailing, than scouting around might be better - especially if we can hook a metal, or stone (to help with the wonder building).

Haha, thank you for reminding me of this! We'd still need to build a galley if we want to settle outside the isle! Bleh, that dot seems good enough now!

I love my :smoke:

thinking!

Loki Strikes · Mar 13, 2009

Got it will play tonight or tomorrow, couple thoughts on dot map, settle yellow one west as I see a coast in far west would be in BFC, losing an ocean and letting the border pop scout for us a bit

Also red, maybe one north for the crabs in first ring + less overlap and I'd rather settle on the plains than the grassland

If no one minds may I play till GLH is in? or maybe stop sooner?

Also slavery... I see no need to whip TGLH as this is monarch however I believe I will whip anyway as slavery will be useful unless any of you are opposed.

I don't think we have much of a shot at the Henge if we go TGLH however I am not familiar with Monarch build times atm, as great as it is with charismatic, Idk about building it

I am relatively unexcited about pretty much all wonders atm unless we grab strategic resources as I feel our production may be better devoted elsewhere

Edit:
On second thought I agree with Yellow dot as the shared clam makes a lot of sense

Also I would prioritize settling our neighboring islands quickly, they give double commerce for trade routes (there is one to the SW as well as I see coast, I will try to get a wb out to scout as scouting is very important imo)

Loki Strikes · Mar 13, 2009

Played 36 turns (kinda long sorry) till GLH was in

As soon as I start I make note of two things, the workboat in position and the fact we are not in slavery. I revolt to slavery and build the clams during the anarchy.

I see the worker on the mine, let it complete and mark some signs on the second turn.

Continuing with our plan afterwards I start chopping forests and decide on agriculture next as it would allow us to improve rice and allows for a discount on pottery, (which I didn't get around to yet), I two pop whip the normal lighthouse somewhere along the line, knocking a guy off a mine and an unimproved tile and I pick up the wheel next for further pottery discount as we may need later, then I go AH cause I felt like grabbing it I guess

, really don't remember why...

Suddenly NE island seems good for more than trade routes

anyway I set research to pottery next.

I grow to size 6 and two pop whip GLH knocking guys off 2 unimproved tiles and landing the GLH putting overflow into a workboat as I really feel we should scout the SW island, after that I would probably build a galley/settler and a worker or two

I stopped with GLH in

Edit:

Our glorious capital

whatever we do, I have the workboat timed with growth perfectly oh and pottery too, dang I love coincidences... err micro managing skill(*cough* not *cough*)

Next player has a choice on what to do with the worker (or so it seems), it hasn't moved yet, I would certainly farm the rice next, but up to them

I would suggest pottery - writing, then go myst-medi-priesthood-monarchy as I would prioritize getting some happies however we may be able to divert a bit considering we are Cha and with monuments and Cha we have a free +2 happy.

And I can not stress this enough, SETTLE THOSE ISLANDS the sooner we have intercontinental trade routes up the better, it is REX time baby :cool:

Edit Edit:
Added save now Ha! already have a :smoke:

Turn Log Below (forgot to turn it on for first two turns

Spoiler :

Dave Hartwick · Mar 13, 2009

First of all, I have something to say: I messed up on the map generation. Examinations of saves three and five show no Ragnar or Willem presence. I haven't checked save 4, but I'm certain they won't be around. I don't think this is major screw up, others may disagree.

Thanks, Sengir and Loki.

Rotation:

Arlborn
Sengir
Loki Strikes
Dave Hartwick
nocho
silk1976
dualmaster

I'm up and will play directly with goals of a galley and a settler earmarked for the islands. Playing 20 turns or so.

nocho's on deck.

Arlborn · Mar 13, 2009

Isn't it better to go mysticism and then writing? A +1

from monument should help us a lot with whipping.

I am a lot more tempted now to scout the west part of the west isle before settling. With luck there is another sea resource there and so we can grab the horse and the sea resource in one city there.

Dave Hartwick · Mar 14, 2009

Pregame: 2050 BC
Pottery due in 5, Carthage is due to grow in 5, and the workboat is due in 5. There is only one possible conclusion: Loki Strikes really likes the number 5. 555, the number of the god of smokers.

To put a stop to all this, I switch the workboat for a galley. I tell the worker to go ahead and complete the prechop to further spoil Loki's plans. Other than that, there's not a lot to do because I don't know how to get rid of the prechop sign.

2025 BC. whip the galley, start a settler, irrigate the rice. Galley goes to explore the eastern island.

1925 BC. Pottery in. Mysticism, I choose you.

1850 BC. There's not a lot our worker can do right now on the big island so I send him to prep the small one a little.

1775 BC. Mysticism's all the rage in Carthage. I try to kick off a fad for scribbling on things and making scratch marks in clay.

1700 BC. Instructive screenshot of the future site of Utica, city of horses but no sea food.

Spoiler :

1650 BC. Utica founded, galley sent to explore SW island.

1500 BC. My notes say I took a screenshot, but I can't find it. Let me describe the real estate as an agent might:

COZY ISLAND HIDEAWAY OOZES RUSTIC CHARM!

It's two tiles, there's no resources, and no sign of coast that I could see. Still, it's worth settling for the trade, I think.

Writing comes in, tech set tentatively to Iron Working.

The galley needs moving.

Demographics:

Spoiler :

nocho's up, silk is on deck.

nocho · Mar 14, 2009

I'd say got it, if there would be a save, but I don't see it....

Can play later today but maybe let's leave some room for discussion. Anybody any thoughts?

Dave Hartwick · Mar 14, 2009

D'oh! Save loaded.

nocho · Mar 14, 2009

Ok, I had a look at the save. Good to see we got the GLH and a 2nd city founded, offshore even!

What about the near future? Personally I think the Pyramids are a pretty long shot, too long probably. Right now it's at a hefty 108 turns, with just 3 forest left to chop. There is another hill to mine yet, but we remain relatively production poor.
I'd rather spend our precious production on infra and expansion! I'm thinking something along the line of:
Granary (half way built, 6 turns to go) - Monument (whip) - Workboat (work western clam, so Utica can use eastern clam) - Settler - Library - Settler. Or library before settler to reach happy cap first.
Utica: finish monument, lighthouse, granary.

Tech: I'm ok with IW, let's see if it pops somewhere. Suspect it might be on the northern tip of the island so rather finish IW before accidently settling on top of it.
After that I'd suggest polytheism to either go aesth-lit (would try great lib) or priest-monarchy.

And where do we settle first? Red dot (when IW is in) or maybe tiny SW island for intercontinental traderoutes?

Any input welcome, I'll play this evening (CET), so as not to rush this too extremely

.

Sengir · Mar 14, 2009

Good news: we have more land to our east:

The arrows point to coast that can be seen under the for, the red square is over an ocean tile that cannot be worked by a city placed anywhere on the visible map, which means that there must be a city possible in the fog able to work that tile.

Good going with the extra city and the GLH. Personally I would not go for the pyramids at the moment, we have very few production and it's probably better spent elsewhere.

I would settle red dot first, Utica can provide intercontinental traderoutes for three cities.

Builds: I agree completely on Utica. Carthage: I wouldn't build a monument there, but I agree on the wb and working the western clam, giving the eastern to Utica. Be liberal with the whip, it's our most important source of production, so try to whip as much as possible. Not sure about IW, we are not in need of metal as there's nothing to fight. I'm not sure preventing to settle on top of Iron is worth researching it now.
I would rather tech Poly > Priesthood > Monarchy > CoL (founding religion). That will leave us with more happies. Going Poly > Aest > Lit is also a possibility if we are going for the Glib. Will be a long build though, but it's possible; we still have one hill to chop-mine giving us 30h and 10h/turn in Carthage > Glib is 525 hammers > 495/10 = 49,5 turns.... we can whip it a bit (whipping wonders is at a penalty of 50% I believe), so three pop whip = 66h > 399h to slow build. Still 40t. Probably try to mm some whip overflow to get it down a bit more. It will be quite an investment but the scientist are nice and will get us some GS. I can go either way on this.

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