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BtS Babylon UHV

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Corm, Aug 2, 2007.

  1. townknave

    townknave Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I agree Colm, these are some pretty broken UHV conditions if they can only be achieved by incredibly lucky goody huts. China gets Writing around Turn 20, while the fastest you can get it is Turn 25 or so, even though the Chinese go through Animal Husbandry, which is more expensive than Pottery. I was lucky enough to pop Pottery from the first available goody hut around turn 5, which enabled me to just beat the Chinese to it at turn 19. Making matters worse, this is not like religion techs, where if you get it on the same turn as the AI it'll still give you the religion. You have to get it at least a turn BEFORE the AI.

    That said, I have noted once or twice in my many tries that China did not ALWAYS beeline for Writing. They just do so 95% of the time. I don't know if there's any correlation, but the times I noticed they didn't get writing super-early were the times I didn't beeline for it myself. If the China AI omnisciently knows if you're going for writing, and beelines to it just to spite you, then that is awfully lame.

    This also shows that on Monarch, the AI seems to research around 25% faster than the player. Is there any way to get something like Noble difficulty in RFC, where the AI and player are on an even keel? I find Viceroy too easy and Monarch too arbitrarily hard due to stuff like this. I tried adjusting the research speed parameter in Handicapinfo.xml, but that seems to affect all Civs, as lowering that made them get Writing around turn 15.
     
  2. salaminizer

    salaminizer Colorado Internacional

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    it's not exactly impossible (I have made it) but my best effort to guarantee the first objective was 70 turns. which means that I have 16 turns left to rush a GA AND still grow my city.

    I can't found any religion because I will lose the tech race, so I finally agree with you: Babylon needs another UHV.
     
  3. Corm

    Corm Prince

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    Do you mean you have achieved all 3 UHV goals on Monarch level on BtS or just 1 or 2 of the UHV goals?

    My argument is that you cannot complete all 3 at the moment on Monarch with BtS. I can get 1 or 2 of the goals I just cant get all 3.

    I was able to complete the Babs UHV's under Warlords at Monarch about 50% of the time (it was always partly down to luck) but now it jist cannie be done ya ken?
     
  4. salaminizer

    salaminizer Colorado Internacional

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    yeah, just 1 or 2. I agree with you..
    I believe that getting pottery from the hut would give me the extra turns needed for the GA.. but, well, it's just luck (as it is already..)
     
  5. coko

    coko Prince

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    Aug 9, 2006
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    So what can be done to fix this? Change the UHV or if possible alter China's style so it doesn't alway beat you?
     
  6. Corm

    Corm Prince

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    Hope Rhye looks at this thread would be a start I suppose? ;)

    I really dont know to be honest. Possibly changing Babs UHV to researching the techs before a certain year or something similar?
     
  7. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    The funny thing is that in my (many) tests the opposite is also true. I haven't been as persistant as with Babylon when playing China, but I tried many times and I couldn't get first to Mathematics, hence Confucianism is founded every time in Niniveh and the confucianist cathedrals goal becomes impossible.

    Also about razing Thebes, it is possible to pass through Jerusalem, I guess (I doubt the archers in the city will attack your troops passing by), but you need to waste a lot of production to make troops and you still would have to compete with Delhi and Pechin which have religions and often wonders too.
     
  8. scu98rkr

    scu98rkr Prince

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    Is this something to do with the new better AI ?

    The tech pace in RFC-BTS seems even faster than usual and of course the AI wont trade tech with you at all fairly.
     
  9. scu98rkr

    scu98rkr Prince

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    at monarch level anyway
     
  10. Corm

    Corm Prince

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    I suspected so myself but I really don't know.
     
  11. Thonnas

    Thonnas Warlord

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    Just as in previous versions, I've had less trouble with the techs than I have with the population. I've been surprised the last couple of times it was beijing matching my pop, not delhi.

    I'm starting to think BtS China may be even more troublesome than I felt they were in warlords. It seems they end up founding christianity even more often when I load later civs from the 3k bc start. There's been a few times I load Portugal or England or Netherlands and there is absolutely no religion in europe
     
  12. Corm

    Corm Prince

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    With the new patch it can be done.

    Mosttimes its seems your beaten on the Culture victory (only played it 4 times since i got home and won on 1 occasion) but you can get round this by switching to caste system and making 1 Great Artist OR by lucking out on Judaism spreading and getting a temple built. On the game I won with it was because I had a Temple and a Monument. I also used the Oracle for Code of Laws and didn't switch Civics until then in order to have 1 less turn of anarchy (not switching to Hed Rule with Monarchy right away).

    So there you go. New patch has sort of sorted it. Still 1 in 4 isn't great but I don't have the will to try it again at the moment.
     
  13. Shawmane

    Shawmane Chieftain

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    Not sure how I did it, but Babylon's UHV was the first one I completed when I purchased BTS. I do remember that I had a forest fire on the dye square and that freed up an extra commerce on that tile so it is probably the reason I was able to do it. I did have to restart multiple times though. Getting writing before China seems to be pure luck. I achieved the victory on Monarch level. Built the Oracle and a Library for culture. Might have built an obelisk and didn't have a religion. I did send out multiple warriors to gather happy huts in Turkey, Samarkand, Eastern Russia/W Mongolia, Central Russia, Balkans, Denmark, Iberia and Scandinavia. I think one gave me a scout so I but I dont recall if I got a tech. I might have gotten animal husbandry though from the first hut. Either way alot of luck was involved.
     
  14. Thonnas

    Thonnas Warlord

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    I did it twice this week just to be sure, and it wasn't very difficult at all (and no, I didn't get anything from huts). research was pottery, writing, mysticism, masonry, meditation, priesthood, monarchy, code of law (from oracle while researching monarchy), then I went for bronze and did some trades and stuff that aren't really relevant. i built warrior(s), worker, granary, library, stonehenge, oracle, monument, walls, and more warriors, switching mid production on some things to optimize usage and all that. I allowed one growth to one unhappy citizen before I got monarchy, then I switched to monarchy and caste system, grew to 8 pop, then specialized a couple of artists for the few turns that were left just in case, although I was top in culture by then. with my worker I was able to build the sheep pasture, the two quarries, a cottage, and connect the wheat (not in that order, though).
     
  15. Shawmane

    Shawmane Chieftain

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    Actually, Thonnas, that sounds exactly how I did it also. I think i might have built stonehenge as well, definately got Code of Laws with the Oracle while researching monarchy and switched to Caste/HR as soon as I had them both, hiring artists as well, though with the Oracle, library and stonehenge, I don't think I needed them really. And I definately had a granary and several warriors. If Sur and Shushan culture flip, raze them and send the troops to Babylon or out hut gathering.

    I remember Babylon was 10 or 11 population when the time hit in 700 BC.
     
  16. Corm

    Corm Prince

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    Tried again this morning (and wrote down what i done).

    Build order: Worker, Granary, Library, Stone Henge, Oracle, Warrior, Pyramids ( was 1 turn away from completion).

    Research: Pottery, Writing, Mysticism, Masonry, Animal Husbandry, Priesthood, Monarchy, Mining, Bronze Working, Hunting (the last 3 aren't essential and you can choose whatever after Monarchy).

    Workers: Cottage flood plains, Cottage flood plains, road plains (to left of wheat), Quarry Stone, Quarry Marble, Pasture Sheep, Farm Wheat, Road Wheat, Worker free to improve whatever.

    I switched to Hereditary Rule and Serfdom after researching Monarchy which was discovered 4 turns after the Oracle was built.

    I manipulated my production in Babil on two occasions to working the trees on the hill for extra hammers after that I maxed food and let the AI sort out the tiles worked. Final population in Babil was 8.

    I tried this tactic twice this morning and won once, I also got a much higher score on this occasion coming out as Simon Bolivar on the victory chart.
     
  17. salaminizer

    salaminizer Colorado Internacional

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    I tried one time, but I always lose the Stonehenge... and almost the same path as all of you.. the only difference was that I "cottaged" the marble. I started building the Stonehenge with 20 turns left and my best was losing it by 3. When I got it to about 8 turns left the quarry was built, however in the next turn somebody else finish it :(
     
  18. Corm

    Corm Prince

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    The time I lost on Sunday morning it was because someone else bet me to Stone Henge.

    Babylon is a good 75% luck I think and 25% skill at least for me anyway :D
     
  19. Minority Report

    Minority Report Chieftain

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    I could do it easily also two times yesterday. I time I was extremely lucky, as I got a free tech from a goody hut - guess what: Mathematics, so I founded Confucianism. :), which definitely helped in the culture.
     
  20. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    I won on my second try. research to archery, then beeline to writing, code of laws, then monarchy. Next I built as many wonders as possible, while building 7 farms. My first game I lost because my population tied at 7 with Beejing. In my second my pop was nine. It is a fun civ. I later built a huge nuclear arsenal to destroy the turks. Alas, Babalyon.
     

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