[BtS] Elder Scrolls Scenario (At an idea/recruitment level)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by Ald Sadrith, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. Ald Sadrith

    Ald Sadrith Chieftain

    Jan 3, 2008
    Hello everybody, new to these forums. I got a couple of ideas here that might turn into something more if there's enough interest in seeing them completed. And of course, if I posted this in the wrong place, I'd be glad to be redirected to the proper board. Oh yeah, and warning for a proper wall'o'text!

    Spoiler :
    The Elder Scrolls: Knife in the Shadow
    (Name is still pending (as is a lot of other stuff))​

    I’ve had this idea at the back of my head for so long now that I thought that I might as well put it up here in case anyone is interested in trying to fulfill it with me. As you might’ve guessed, I like the Elder Scrolls series a lot and I also happened to like Civilization IV, and when I found out that there’s no Elder Scrolls mod, I decided to do my best to get one up and running. I’m not considering having this as a full out modpack, but rather as a very detailed and complex scenario. I think it is perfectly feasible, since I’m not thinking of implementing all of Tamriel (which would be bloody huge) and dozens of new civilizations, although I’ll admit that if this lifts off, there will be quite a lot of work to be done, especially with all the new units and buildings. The bonus though is that there is tons of lore that can be used as a base for this mod and stuff that doesn’t exist you can always invent. Now, I have never modded Civilization, but I do have a very clear ambition and I know what I want to have in the modification and I got the basic plot all thought out. So if anyone is interested I’d be happy to be some kind of lore master/storywriter in the team, and if no-one else applies, I guess I could lead the whole thing too. And the only thing that is definitive so far is that the mod will stick to Morrowind lore (but only as far as its possible) and everything else is subject to change. So let me begin with the background and fill you up on recent events! Oh, and if you don’t know squat about the Elder Scrolls universe, you might want to take a quick look here and here, because I’m not going to go through the whole story of Morrowind right now.

    The story is set on the easternmost province of the Empire known as Morrowind, a few years after the Oblivion crisis. These are turbulent times due to the disappearance of the Nerevarine, the weakening power of the Tribunal Gods (or god, actually, since Almalexia’s and Sotha Sil’s death has been kept a secret by the last remaining god Vivec), the recent Oblivion gate crisis that had most of the legion’s forces recalled to Cyrodiil to the west. Above all, with the diminishing number of Imperial loyalists, the Great Houses of Morrowind: Hlaalu, Redoran, Telvanni, Indoril and Dres are growing more and more powerful. These Houses could be seen as political parties, each and everyone sharing the power of Morrowind and constantly quarrying over territory, ideology and the Imperial occupation. The event that turned this rivalry into a state of war was when the king of Morrowind, pro-imperial Hlaalu Helseth, was killed by an unknown assassin in his court. As a result, the cosmopolitan and Empire supporting Hlaalu accused the very conservative and anti-Imperial Indoril for the assassination. Indoril knew that the accusation was only an excuse for Hlaalu to try to conquer their sacred lands, which was fine with Indoril who had since long held a grudge against their Hlaalu brethren, and war broke out between the two Houses. The smile was quickly wiped away from the Hlaalu’s faces though, when they realized that the Empire wouldn’t be able to give them direct military support, since they couldn’t afford to break the peace treaty between the Houses and the Empire. House Dres whose economy is based on their extensive trade and use of slaves, had ended up siding with king Helseth, even though he was the one to abolish of slavery. And there was a reason to this, it would seem, impossible relationship: slavery wasn’t actually abolished. Formally it was, but no one actually enforced the laws thanks to Helseth’s orders and Dres’ underhand deals. With no king to keep the laws the way they were and the biggest competitor to the throne being Hlaalu who follow the Empires view on that slavery shouldn’t exist; Dres sees their position as threatened and joins in with Indoril against Hlaalu. Meanwhile the new, young, and aspiring magistrates in House Telvanni are craving to expand. They send slave hunters to the border between Dres and the Black Marsh who end up getting caught by Dres loyalists. The Dres mistake them for a scouting force and in their paranoia they end up declaring war with the uneasy alliance of wizard lords who now happily have an excuse to gain more ground. The Redoran, afraid of an attack from the west to their main holdings, dare not to declare war on Hlaalu even though they despise them as much as Indoril. Instead, they launch an attack on Telvanni settlements in a desperate attempt at gaining more ground on the island of Vvardenfell in the middle of Morrowind. Indoril accuses the Redoran for being traitors and progressively a conflict rises between the two until it becomes a full blown war.

    And that’s where you come in and take the council seat of whichever house you choose. I’d like to compare this in a way to the Chinese unification scenario in warlords where everyone is trying to get to the top and rule over the others by whichever way suits you. There should be many ways to victory besides war. Espionage would play a large role in converting your enemies to allies or winning by cultural/religious domination or a diplomatic victory that includes building a wonder that works the same way as the UN. Anyway, here are the five different playable factions:

    House Hlaalu is the House that adapted best to the Imperial occupation and they are also the most foreigner friendly House of the five, which has lead to Hlaalu being despised by all the other Houses. No one has actually dared to do anything to stop Hlaalu’s expansion, since they for a long time were backed up by the legions of the Empire, but as the presence of the Empire has been dwindling, so has the power of Hlaalu. Due to this, Hlaalu realized the need of a professional army to stand toe-to-toe with the other Houses, but since martial prowess isn’t one of their greatest virtues, they mostly rely on mercenaries. What Hlaalu does excel at though is espionage, treachery and thieving. They have their all own crime syndicate, the Camonna Tong, which can infiltrate cities and do sabotage and smuggling. Their economy comes mainly from the many trade routes between the Empire and the rest of Morrowind, and the sales of exotic goods like ebony, to common things like kwama eggs. They support free religion and have an even mix of Imperial worship and traditional Tribunal worship. Their leader is the Ulthares Veman, whose traits are Financial and Imperialistic. Trade routes +5% commerce.
    UU: Camonna Tong Thugs: Kind of like privateers except on land, they can attack and plunder units while remaining neutral. Hlaalu Praetori: Hlaalu members trained by imperial drill masters to act like Imperial legionnaires. Combat I and City Raider I UB: Imperial Trading Commission: +35% commerce, -10% maintenance, replaces Trade house.

    House Redoran is a very militaristic House with high emphasis on duty, honor and piety. Their power has been rising lately from an all time low with the diminishing Imperial legions and their growing settlements on the island of Vvardenfell which they now almost completely control. Almost everyone born into House Redoran knows to some degree how to fight, and they have a strong militia and superb heavy infantry. Most of their economy comes from traditional guar herding and kwama mining, but they also have some rarer resources on Vvardenfell. Most members of House Redoran are still followers of the Tribunal temple, although some have gone back to the old Aedra (ancestor) worship. Their leader at the moment is head councilor Athyn Sarethi (it has to be one of the influent families, so I picked the councilor I remembered the best), whose traits are Aggressive and Philosophical. +1 happiness for every garrisoned military unit and -10% supports cost.
    UU: Master-at-arms: Slow to produce shock troopers that excel in melee. Starts with Shock II. Conscripts: Very fast to produce rand-and-file spear militia. Starts with city defense I. UB: Armory: +3 experience, +1 hammer.

    House Indoril was the biggest of the Houses before the Imperial occupation, which lead to many highly positioned Indoril members to commit suicide, since they’d rather die than be ruled by anyone else. This might give you an insight into just how much Indoril despises the Empire and most of all Hlaalu. They are highly pious followers of the Tribunal temple and most of the high seats in the temple are occupied by Indoril members. Their military consists of a core group of zealous temple warriors known as Ordinators, who blend the disciplines of heavy infantry and destructive magic, and the so called temple militias that can be rallied very quickly. Their economy is based on regular farming and temple taxes from all over Morrowind. Their leader is the former archcanon of the temple, Tholer Saryoni, resigned from his post on Vvardenfell in Vivec city to become the leader of House Indoril. His traits are Spiritual and Protective. +5 % commerce and +5% culture in settlements with the Tribunal as religion.
    UU: Ordinators: Zealous crusaders clad in heavy armor with limited spell casting. Starts with Fire bolt I. Temple militia: Light infantry, fast to recruit and decent in combat. Starts with combat I and restoration (medic I, bscly) I. UB: Temple Complex: +25% commerce, +1happiness replaces any temple for any religion.

    House Telvanni consists of highly independent wizard lords who have joined in an uneasy alliance to assault Dres territory and defend their islands on Vvardenfell. Their military consists mainly of powerful wizards, sorcerers and battle mages with mercenaries up front to keep them away from harm’s way. They also have a fairly strong navy, rivaling only Dres’ sea forces. Their economy is based around slave trade and artifacts of dwemer and daedric origin, although most Telvanni towns are very self sufficient. Most of the Telvanni are uninterested in religion although there are a fair amount of Daedra worshippers amongst the crowd. Their leader is either Arch magistrate Gothren who is old and prefers to isolate the House from everyone else is Protective and Organized or alternatively Master Aryon who is Expansive and Creative.
    UU: Nightblade: A combination of spell caster and stealthy warrior, nightblades can infiltrate, sabotage and convert enemy units to fight for you. Starts with cloaking (invisible, like a spy) and charm (converts enemy unit to your side). River strider: Fast naval units that hover above water and are manned by spearmen. Starts with Flanking II. UB: Mushroom Tower: +35% culture, +15% defense, -15% maintenance, replaces Council House.

    House Dres is almost equally as conservative as Indoril although the Tribunal worship has been declining with the relationship to Redoran and Indoril. They have great guerilla fighters, feared combat striders that are basically just tall, amphibious, insects that serve as archer platforms and a strong navy that is used to do amphibious assaults on Black Marsh to capture slaves. Talking about slaves, they are the main income of Dres and without them; the House would crumble and fall apart. These slaves work at endless saltrice farms and mines and as general servants. The religion is slowly going back to the Aedra worship of old times, yet there are still many that put their faith in the Tribunal. Their leader is Ilyan Dares whose traits are Industrious and Charismatic. Farms generate +1 Commerce and Slavery civic has added productivity benefits.
    UU: Combat Strider: Tall insects that are during peacetime used for transportation and in wartime as archery platforms. Starts with Drill I, Cover I. Dres Slaves: Instead of ordinary workers, the Dres use their slaves that work twice as fast as ordinary workers. UB: Dres Slave Compound: +30% commerce, +15% productivity, replaces Slave market.

    Now, when it comes to military units I thought the best way to organize it would be to have the house ranks represent their duty on the battlefield. I don’t have a full unit list (yet…) but I have a general idea of how to implement things. Say, a hireling (rank 1 in the House) would be easily massed, albeit weak and a oathman (rank 3) could be a low level archer and a house father (rank 8) would be elite heavy infantry etc. and these units roles would constantly stay the same, although you would be able to upgrade them, as in Chinese unification scenario, into a hireling II for example. The ranks would of course vary depending on House; a rank 7 Redoran (House Brother) I’d imagine being some kind of cavalry, while the Telvanni rank 7 is a Wizard. This would probably be a pain in the ass to balance, but I think it would be at the very least possible. And of course all the houses would differ in looks so to make them slightly more unique.
    But production times would also play a big role, since I think it is the best way to represent the differences in the Houses’ military codexes. Some, like the Redoran, would go for a small, professional army since they aren’t numerically superior, while Hlaalu or Dres would be about gathering large combined forces, or Indoril who would have a strong core that stays the same while the units around it are more flexible etc. Therefore I think that the scenario needs to have many, short turns for this to be mirrored correctly, and I think it would enhance the gameplay overall.

    Buildings on the other hand would be shared between the Houses, with the exception of course being unique buildings. Most of the building concepts could be transferred directly to CivIV, like trade house replaces market, smith replaces forge, council house replaces courthouse, and so on, plus many completely new buildings. Architecture differs too of course, and I think that part can get extra problematic, because first of all, I think it would be quite tricky to model and texture (especially the Telvanni mushroom towers and pods) and secondly there isn’t any real architecture except concept art for Dres and Indoril and I’d have to either come up with something new or just use some of the existing architecture. Buildings would include guild houses (Fighters guild, Mages guild, Thieves guild, Morag Tong and many more) that give special benefits, although these would require civics to be enabled which leads me to…

    Civics which I have a very special plan for… You see, I was thinking that depending on what civics you have enabled, certain buildings would be unlocked or locked. So for example if I have the slavery civics enabled, I would be able to build the slave market that gives increased commerce and productivity at the expense of happiness. And to further continue along that line of thinking, the same thing could apply to units. Certain units that could only be built having a specific civic installed, or maybe it would only adjust at what rate certain units are built, like a military civic that gives 20 % faster production of rank 2 units, but slows down the production of rank 8 units. I have absolutely no idea if these things are even possible, but it’d be way cool to implement them. As for how civics should be converted into an elder scrolls theme, this is what I’m thinking:

    Government -> House Codex (same role, basically)
    • Ancestral rules (old traditional Dunmer rules) : +15% culture
    upkeep= low
    • Bloodlines (kind of like hereditary rule within a family): +1 from artifacts,+15% productivity, -5% commerce upkeep = medium
    • Military code (everyone in society is trained for war): Barracks +1 productivity, +4 exp, -1 happiness -10 % commerce upkeep = high
    • Council Elections (representation, bscly): +2 happiness in all towns, commerce +15 %, -10% productivity upkeep = low
    • Imperial Codex (you’re being governed by the Empire): +25 % commerce, +1 trade routes, -4 happiness, you may receive Imperial reinforcements. Allows you to build upkeep = medium

    Legal -> Imperial Policy (relationship with the Empire)
    • Neutral: +1 happiness upkeep = none
    • Sympathetic: +10% commerce, 4 free units -1 happiness upkeep = low
    • Resistance: +15% culture, +1 happiness upkeep = medium
    • Benevolent: +15% commerce from trade routes, 8 free units, -1 happiness upkeep = medium
    • Hostile: +2 exp, +2 happiness upkeep =high

    • Hierarchy: +5% culture, -1 happiness, unlimited specialists upkeep = medium
    • Slavery: +15% productivity, -1 happiness, can sacrifice population to finish construction, allows construction of Slave market upkeep = high
    • Landlords: +1 happiness, +1 productivity from mines, farms and workshops upkeep = medium
    • House Collective: No maintenance cost from distance to palace, +1 food from all food production constructions upkeep = low
    • ???? (Emancipation doesn’t really fit in y’know)

    Economy -> Guilds (all the guild houses for the respective civics can be built once they are enabled, and they need to be present in a city for the bonuses to have any effect) upkeep is low for all guild civics
    • Fighters Guild: +10% military unit production, +1 happiness, -15% commerce
    • Mages Guild: +10% research, -10 % culture, instant transportation between guild halls
    • Thieves Guild: +10% commerce, -1 happiness I need more ideas for these guys…
    • Morag Tong: Can hire assassins (can do espionage missions and assassinations), +5% maintenance
    • East Empire Company: +1 trade routes, +1 happiness and +1 gold from rare resources (ebony, artifacts etc.), -1 happiness if Imperial policy is set to Resistance, -2 if Hostile

    Religion -> Magic (chooses what school of magic the spell casters focus on and research) upkeep is low for all magic civics
    • Destruction: offensive spells (works like bombardment for artillery/ships), +5% maintenance, allows you to build offensive casters
    • Restoration: restoration spells (same as medic promotion), +1 health in every city, allows you to build healers
    • Alteration: defensive spells (defensive buffs to units on same tile and/or levitation (flying))+10% defense
    • Mysticism: mysticism spells (increased detection capabilities and anti-spell spells), increases line of sight by +1 square
    • Alchemy: (no spells)+5% commerce, +1 health in each city

    • Ancestral structure: +5% maintenance for every temple structures, +10% culture upkeep = none
    • Temple hierarchy: +10% military production, +15% faster construction where state religion is present, -1 happiness upkeep = high
    • Theocracy: +2 exp, no non-state religion spread, +15% faster construction of temples upkeep medium
    • Agnosticism: No state religion, any religion gives -1 happiness, +15% research upkeep = low
    • Free Religion: No state religion, +1 happiness and +5% culture for each religion in city upkeep medium

    Possible additions could be military, trade/economy and cultural civics, although I haven’t really gave them that much thought as of yet.

    From civics to religion it’s time to bring up the beliefs of Morrowind. I’m unsure as of yet whether to include religious bonuses, but I guess this thing has to develop beyond this documentation for anyone to know that yet.

    Tribunal Temple: The former three god-kings of the tribunal have shrunk to only one, who is desperately struggling to keep it a secret. The fact that the temples power has been diminishing on the other hand, has not gone unnoticed. Many temple members started practicing the old Aedra worship (which also is on my list) and a few of them have even joined with the Dissident priest’s society. Still though, the majority of Morrowind are temple followers, especially around Indoril and Redoran territories where their control is almost absolute.
    Buildings: Tribunal Temple, Tribunal Monastery, High Fane (built in Vivec) (possible religious bonuses: +5% commerce or +5% military production).

    Aedra Worship: The Dunmer used to worship their ancestors even before they moved to Morrowind many eras ago. Many Dunmer even use their less lovable ancestors to guard their family tombs or sanctuaries as punishment for what they did in life. Many have converted to Aedra worship after the fulfilling of the Nerevarine prophecies which showed that the ancestors still have power. Most Aedra worshippers are very conservative Dres families and some Redoran and Hlaalu ones too.
    Buildings: Ancestral Tomb, Aedra Monastery (subject to change), Necrom’s mass tomb (built in Necrom)(possible religious bonuses; +1 exp or a undead UU).

    Daedra Worship: The worship of demons (which Daedra stands for) isn’t always just negative. It is a very tangible thing, daedra worship, and very much less sublime and more directly rewarding than most other ethereal powers. Sure, it has its risks, but with great risk comes great reward. Unfortunately, the Daedra are unpredictable at best, and they can go from lovable to lethal in less time than the blink of an eye. Few openly admit that they worship daedras, except a few, isolated communities or underground socities. Some Telvannis are said to worship the daedra though and so do some Hlaalu members.
    Buildings: Daedra Shrine, Daedric Monastery, Daerdric gate to daedric realm of choice (building pending)(possible religious bonuses: +1 happiness, random events occur more often or a daedric UU).

    Imperial Cult: The Imperial Cult has nine main gods that each represents its very own virtue. Many outlanders find this a easy to digest religion and many members of House Hlaalu are followers of the Cult.
    Buildings: Imperial Cult Chapel, Imperial Cult Monastery, Imperial Cult Cathedral (built in Old Ebonheart or Firewatch)(possible religious bonuses: spreads easily or +1 commerce for each chapel/monastery).

    I’m very much open to more religions as they are quite lacking as is. And if anyone has any original ideas, just bring it up and I’ll see if they fit in to the elder scrolls universe.

    Terrain. Now, I doubt there will be that much things that need to be fixed in order for the terrain to look proper. First of all, the only new terrain that needs to be done is swamplands, and I think I saw a couple of mods with those, the others are only retextures. First of all, there is practically no tundra (could be turned into Ashlands with -1 health) and no desert (this I don’t know what to do with) and there are no plains on Morrowind that look like the ones in CivIV so if the plains could just be retextured into a darker brown to resemble west gash-like environments think that’d be fine. Another thing that has to be added are the emperors parasol’s (think mushroom trees) that could replace or grow alongside forests, but all other forests are fine as they are.

    Then we have the mapmaking… Since there aren’t any complete topographical or environmental maps over Morrowind (there are some for Vvardenfell though, so I guess you could use that as a reference) I’m gonna’ let anyone who wants to have a try at it create one, although I’m starting to master the world builder, so I guess I could make it myself if I get the hang of it, but for all of you others I’m fine with it as long as it is geographically correct. You can find a lot of maps over Morrowind by just googling it.

    Next, there are the resources, which could get a little bit tricky, mainly because of the fact that there isn’t anything quite like kwama mines in CivIV, and that all the resources have to be somewhat evenly distributed across the map.

    Saltrice: A basic crop that grows everywhere on the map with the exception of the ashlands. +1 food and +2 food, +1 health with farm (replaces rice).

    Hack-lo-leafs: A slightly more expensive crop, yet almost as durable as saltrice. +food and +3 food, +1 health with farm (replaces wheat)

    Guar: Found in the wild and usually tamed, these creatures can either be mounted and used in war or used as food. +1 food and +1 hammer, +2 hammer, +1 food with pasture (replaces horse).

    Kwama colony: A colony of kwama that produce kwama eggs, both edible and sell-able. +1 food and +3 food, +2 commerce, +1 hammer with mine (replaces… ugh, I have no idea).

    Slaughterfish: A very aggressive fish, yet nevertheless edible. +1 food and +3 food, +1 health with fishing boats. (replaces fish).

    Dreugh: Octopus people whose scales can be made into medium armor and wax that is very valuable. +1 commerce and +3 commerce with fishing boats. (replaces whales… kinda).

    Ebony: Valuable volcanic metals that are made into expensive heavy armor. +1 hammer and +2 hammer, +4 commerce with mine (replaces gold/aluminum).

    Daedric artifact: Dangerous shrines that contain secrets unknown. +1 commerce, and +5 commerce, +5% research, (+1 happiness if Daedra worship as state religion) with excavation site.

    Dwemer artifact: Mostly located on Vvardenfell, these contain mechanisms and hidden technology. +1 hammer and +3 hammer, +3 commerce, +1 happiness with excavation site.

    Glass: Volcanic glass hidden in rock makes for great light armor and sharp weapons. +2 commerce and +6 commerce and +2 hammer with mine.

    Stone: Ordinary stone, used to build stuff. +1 hammer and +3 hammer and +10% faster construction speed with quarry.

    Marble: Same as stone, except +1 hammer, +2 commerce with quarry.

    Silt Striders: Tall insects that can be used as transports or in some cases as platforms for archers or siege devices. +1 hammer and +4 hammer with pasture (replaces ivory).

    Moon Sugar: Only grows in arid enviroments, and can be refined into a narcotic substance called skooma that is outlawed in the whole Empire . +1 commerce, +1 unhealthiness and +8 commerce, +3 unhealthiness with skooma lab (skooma cannot be traded) (replaces sugar).

    Chokeweed: Can be dried and turned into a tobacco-like…thing. +1 commerce and +4 commerce, +1 unhealthiness with plantation.

    Bonemeal: In tombs there are remains of dead people, and the bonemold of those dead people can be made into medium armor. +1 hammer and +2 hammer, +2 commerce with excavation site (replaces… let’s say coal).

    Telvanni Bugs: These little rascals can be grinded down into Telvanni bug musk which is an expensive perfume and incense. +1 commerce and +4 commerce, +1 happiness with plantation(replaces incense).

    Corkclub plant: A sturdy plant that makes good replacement for wood and is also edible. +1 food and +1 food, +2 hammer, +1 health with farm.

    Marshmerrow: A quite delicious crop that grows in wet climates and on coastlines. +1 food and +2 food, +1 health with farm (replaces corn).

    Mucksponge: Muck grows near coastlines, is far from delicious, but is useful when building stuff. +1 hammer and +3 hammer with ????.

    Netch: These creatures can be tamed and then used for making light netch armor out of their leather. +1 hammer and +3 hammer, +1 commerce with pasture.

    Scathecraw: A very sturdy plant that only grows in the ashlands and other hostile environments. +1 commerce.

    Gold Kanet Flowers: Flowers which leafs can be grinded and dried to make an exotic spice. +1 commerce and +1 food, +2 commerce, +1 happiness with plantation (replaces spices).

    Gems: Same as before
    Silver: Needed for weapons.
    Iron: Same as silver
    Copper: Same as iron
    Dye: Same as before
    Wine: Same as before

    If there’s anything I’ve forgotten that you think should go up there, just notify me and I’ll fill it in.

    Research… This is the part that I’m worrying most over. I just don’t know what to do with it. I guess you could have an ordinary technology tree, though I just don’t think that it’d fit with the overall pace and scope of the conflict. Something more like researching upgrades (iron weapons to steel weapons to silver maybe?) or researching new promotions/spells or benefits I’m okay with. I guess you could mix it in there and have a couple of new civics researches, but most of these things have already been “invented” so I don’t see how regular CivIV research fits in.

    I'll fill in more here later once I come up with new stuff and I recieve some response.

    Well… if anyone has any questions, ideas, hints or anything else just say it, and if anyone actually would like to join in on this project, look here at our boards on Civ United.

    Tl;dr = I'm starting up a Elder Scrolls scenario and I want to know what you people think about it and if anyone is interested in helping me out.
  2. Seven05

    Seven05 Warmonger

    Dec 5, 2005
    Not all of Tamriel? A shame, that could make for some fun games :)
  3. Vrenir

    Vrenir King

    Oct 11, 2006
    I've been surprised that there wasn't one of these for some time. I'd definitely go for it. I'd also be happy to help advise / brainstorm, as I have been a regular reader of the TES Forums (Morrowind Mods, General, and Lore mostly), a frequenter of the Tamriel Rebuilt Forums for several years, and one of the initial brainstormers on the Vvardenfell for Oblivion project. In other words, I'm not quite a Lore guru, but I actually have a basic understanding of things like the nature of Sithis, the development of the Dunmeri Great Houses from the Velothi migration, and even a very basic understanding of CHIM (as much as anybody at any rate). I've also been working on my own brainstorm proto-project which is essentially a Ron Moore style reboot of Morrowind. That has involved a lot of revisionist history for the various cultures and political evolutions, most recently a revision of the Nibenese vs. Colovian cultures in Cyrodiil. So yeah, those are my credentials.

    I like your scenario for the most part, but have a few suggestions for implementation:

    1) Use Fall From Heaven II as your base if possible. By doing this, you can have a large number of fantasy features already implemented and a ton of good units pre-modeled. You would likely need to get Kael's permission to use their resources, but I expect that as long as they receive credit it won't be a big issue.

    2) Include factions beyond the Great Houses, even if they are unplayable. For instance, include some manner of Ashlander coalition, as well as some sort of Argonian power on the southern border and Nordic power on the northwestern border.

    3) Make the factions as distinct as possible. I'm not just talking about a UU or UB here. In the game, joining Telvani vs. Redoran vs. Hlallu was a big deal. It should be here as well.

    4) Make use of Tamriel Rebuilt when planning the mainland portions of the province. They have done an exceptional job fleshing out the Indoril and Dres as well as the politics of all five Houses.

    5) Screenshots could make for some great custom static leaderheads.

    That's it for the moment. Let me know if you want anything else. I would really love to play a good TES mod, combining my two favorite games in one!
  4. Ball Lightning

    Ball Lightning www.sporedum.net

    Apr 2, 2006
    Thunderstorm, Melbourne, Australia
    Great idea, and definitly use FoHII as your base. I prefered the Morrowind setting but the Oblivion graphics so this is much better. Hope to see it go well in the future.
  5. Ald Sadrith

    Ald Sadrith Chieftain

    Jan 3, 2008
    Maybe somewhere in a very distant future in a galaxy far, far away :scan: . On a more serious note: No. Not now anyway.
    I suppose this would get me past the biggest obstacle ATM, and that's actually modding something. So yeah, thanks for the advice.

    I was already thinking of having Ashlanders as the barbarian faction and of course I'll have the biggest Imperial settlements put on the map like Ebonheart, Old Ebonheart, Firewatch with huge garrisons and large defensive bonuses. And I suppose I could include Solstheim and mount a surprise Nordic attack from there :cool:.

    Most defenitley will. I don't see Hlaalu joining up with Indoril/Redoran unless it's something that's really bad for both of them. You wouldn't be able to forge an alliance between the Houses unless you share same religion, civics (which I'll try to make an important part in negotiations, especially the Imperial policies civic), give some gold and have a big arse military power. Maybe later if I decide to make a Nordic invasion on top of everything, The Houses would unite and strike them back or something like that.

    Yeah, I've seen pretty much all of the screenshots for their maps and I've played through the Telvannis map and had a blast doing it (my main character happends to be Telvanni... and no, that won't impact this mod in any way :nope:), but I won't really follow their choises of architecture/landscape to 100 %, even though I'll defenitley take them into account.
    From Oblivion or Morrowind? Cause I guess you could spice up the Morrowind characters in photoshop and what not, but I really dislike the wussy look of the dunmer in Oblivion, even though they'd need less tampering with...

    All in all thanks for the advice. Mostly I'm just conserned with that everyone else who haven't played TES would understand all of this. I mean, looking at my original post after having slept for 12 hours straight made me recognize that anyone who haven't played Morrowind or Oblivion would probably be pretty lost... so does anyone who haven't played any of those games have any input on whether you understand it the plot and what I'm aiming for?
  6. Sightburner

    Sightburner Chieftain

    Apr 4, 2007
    I'm surprised as well, that there haven't been any Elder Scrolls mods out yet; I'd look forward to playing on myself :). I'm working on my own mod at the moment, and a relative beginner myself, but I'm willing to offer input & ideas, as well as do some XML work if you need help with it. I've been obsessed with ES for years now, and would love to see this come to fruition.

    I'm wondering if there may be an alternate set of economic civics, though; the guilds would make great buildings, or better yet, corporations, but keeping in flavor with Morrowind, I'm not (personally) sure if they'd work best as civics. Just my opinion, though - and I'll have to look into things before I can offer any alternatives.

    Ashlanders should be their own faction, if not four (one for each of the tribes). For barbarians, I'd personally recommend the use of scamps. I'd also like to see The Empire and Dwemer as their own 'civilizations' - if not also the Khajiit, Argonians, etc.

    It's a huge idea with a lot of possibilities. Good luck, and as stated, I'm willing to help out if I can.

  7. Ald Sadrith

    Ald Sadrith Chieftain

    Jan 3, 2008
    @ Sightburner: Glad to see more people intrested in seeing this idea being realized.

    And about the Ashlanders bein split up into four camps; that'll depend on the map size (which I'm going to need more input on), since the distances and the scale would be at least somewhat related to Morrowind, which might lead to problems with if the four Ashlander camps were to be crammed into Vvardenfell. And, I'd prefer if they were not just a faction that you could completely steamroll and loot, which would be even easier if they were four seperate (even though allied) factions. Besides, there are Ashlanders who have moved to mainland Morrowind, there's even native camps there, who raid caravans and sometimes even settlements.

    And the Guilds - Economy thing, that was mainly just a bit of theory-crafting form my part, I guess you could just have them as buildings that are independent from civics. Now, in retrospect, I have an idea: to specialize your economy civics depending on what resources/terrain you have? Like a farming economy, mining economy, fishing economy etc.

    Thank you, and you're defenitley welcome to join in on the project. I consider it a positive thing ifthose who seek to join are familiar with The Elder Scrolls, but if you aren't, it's not like I'm going to refuse you from joining. On the opposit, it might be good to have people on board who aren't that familiar with the universe of TES just to balance it out in a way that outsiders (sorry, couldn't come up with a better word ;)) could enjoy the scenario too.

    Also, Ball Lightning has kindly accepted to host this mod on Civunited, so anyone who wants to help us out or just want to check it out, here's the link, and if you want to join the project I made a thread there where you can apply.
  8. Kushan

    Kushan Warlord

    Nov 7, 2005
    Spanaway, WA
    OMG Finally. Really suprised no one has started this yet.

    Like everyone posted above, I would use FFHII as a base (if possible).

    I'd also be willing to help out a little. Ive modded a few games, including morrowind/oblivion, and as well as Rome and Medieval II Total War. I experimented a little bit with Civ IV but not much, but can learn rather quickly. I also know alot about TES lore. Send me a pm if your interested.

  9. Ball Lightning

    Ball Lightning www.sporedum.net

    Apr 2, 2006
    Thunderstorm, Melbourne, Australia
    I think there was someone who was going to make a Oblvion mod, but it was never followed through.
  10. Kushan

    Kushan Warlord

    Nov 7, 2005
    Spanaway, WA
    Instead of modding the tundra landscape, why not just use the desert landscape for the ashlands? Thats essentially what they are, but instead of sand its ash. Tundra could just not be used.

    Where you planning on this fitting into the time of Morrowind the game? or After the oblivion crisis which happened after the Morrowind.

  11. Ball Lightning

    Ball Lightning www.sporedum.net

    Apr 2, 2006
    Thunderstorm, Melbourne, Australia
    Tundra would be better as it is more ashy (graphically) and changing to nothing is very easy.
  12. Ald Sadrith

    Ald Sadrith Chieftain

    Jan 3, 2008
    Read what Ball Lightning said, I've made a couple of unsuccesfull test maps, but if there was anything I found out, it was that tundra is nearly perfect for ashlands.

    In a way it includes both of them, since it happends a few years after the events of Oblivion, but it still focuses mainly on Morrowind and what has happened there the past years after the events on Red Mountain. There won't be any radical changes to Morrowind, I'm trying to stick to lore here as much as possible, and I will sitck with the design of the game throughout the mod.

    As an example, the Imperial legionnaires won't look like the praetorian guards of Oblivion, they'll look like they did in the game with fairly basic roman inspired armor and weaponds. But the difference is, that there won't be nearly as many legionnaires on Morrowind as there were during the game, and they're influence has greatly diminished, because of the fact that most of the guard has been recalled to Cyrodiil to defend from the internal crisis going on there. So there's the connection between the timeline of Oblivion and the design and setting of Morrowind for you.

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