Don't let big words, or letters scare you, I post on several threads sometimes repeating only pertinent info. My purpose was only to dissuade others for accepting "it shouldn't effect" as the same as "it does not affect". I am attempting to to run a solo/multi games out, this time with the log on so that errors might be identifiable, and I'm trying to avoid the sort of glib solution/theory that sometimes arise from good hearted, though misguided souls such as myself. I am working several solutions simultaneously and that can be a nightmare not to mention bad science, (e.g. the links or connections to leaders with the leaderpack scrambles/randomizes leaders with civs in 2.7 games. I now have meaty graphics card and system so RAM has been eliminated as a possible source of CTD's and MFA's. Different model card and mfg so I doubt that it is a conflict with certain engines 'disliking "my" hardware', though I've always hated my vista32 os, so feel free to blame bill gates, and like bill, sid too holds a special two edged sword to my heart. ) P.S. Zappara is telepathic and often only needs my unwritten thoughts to strive to complete the impossible task of making a mod that actually works on 'standard' systems.