[BTS]TF-1 All Praise the Mahatma Day!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by TurdFerguson, Sep 19, 2009.

  1. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Chieftain

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    So, V8_mark and I have been discussing starting a Monarch SG, so here it is.

    Civ: India
    Leader: Gandhi
    Map type:???
    Difficulty: Monarch
    Speed: Epic

    Variants:
    Go for UN Diplomatic Victory
    Make every attempt to found Hinduism and stay in it for the game. If it is FIADL, then convert to it as soon as possible.

    Roster:
    V8_mark
    TurdFerguson
    kolokol
    Ignorant Teacher
    open

    Variants are open to discussion and so is map type. I was thinking I'd like to try Tectonics/Mediterranean script just because I haven't, but it may not be appropriate for the variant.

    V8_mark and I are new to SG's but I don't forsee that being a problem. I would like to see a lot of dicussion in this game, as diplomacy is one of my weaknesses.
     
  2. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    Good stuff! Thanks TF (is it best to call you that? Turd looks weird... :p)

    The concepts of founding Hinduism and concentrating on diplomacy could well be at odds - if we come across a Justinian who spreads Buddhism everywhere, leaving us as the sole Hindus, the diplomatic game is going to be very difficult.

    Maybe we should try and spread our religion vigorously once adopted, regardless of what it is? Going for Hinduism first, as long as the map reasonably allows.

    How do we feel about AP wins?
     
  3. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    I'm easy on map type btw - don't really know what Mediterranean is, as I don't think I've ever played it.

    Tectonics is fine, but it tends to be easier than most other mapscripts, simply because the AI can't cope with large expanses of plains, especially into the late game (it tends to cottage them). On the other hand, you can get screwed with your starting place.

    Once we've decided on a map script, and we have a couple of volunteers, we can roll up some starts! :goodjob:
     
  4. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Chieftain

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    I rolled a Mediterranean start for a solo game and I'm thinking it may not be the best here. I usually run Fractal or Continents and was looking to mix it up a bit. Any suggestions?

    I was thinking that perhaps that Hinduism thing might be what makes it challenging, but I honestly don't know how hard it will be to win diplomatic. I stated UN mostly because I have heard of AP "cheese" victories, which implies to me it is fairly easy if you go for it, but I have never tried it myself.

    Perhaps I am not the best one to suggest variant/difficulty since I haven't ever won diplomatically. I can see how founding and sticking to a religion would be at odds with getting people to Pleased, but I am also under the impression, perhaps falsely, that diplomatic victories can be relatively easy if that is your focus. The religious variant was to try to add challenge.

    As I said I don't really have much experience, so if you figure it is better to drop the Hindu thing, I'm on board.
     
  5. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Chieftain

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    Oh yeah, call me Turd, Fergie, TF, whatever you like.

    Root of the name, if you're curious (from SNL)
     
  6. kolokol

    kolokol Chieftain

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    Hey guys

    Can I join this game... Never played SG before and looking to get my feet wet.

    Its been a while since I'vee played monarch but I like going for diplomatic wins, so I know a few tricks;).

    Winning UN with religious constaints will be difficult, but who says i has to be easy:lol: may have to get real creative with espionage.

    ? about the variant - i assume this is about winning peacefully but is all wars prohibited? may get tricky without at least one war to get ones pop up
     
  7. Dantski

    Dantski Warlord

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    heh are you turdferguson I know?
     
  8. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Chieftain

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    kolokol, you're in!

    I wasn't thinking that we would limit ourselves to no war, but perhaps we need something to discourage ourselves from ending up with a Domination win. Or maybe just turn off the victory conditions? Thoughts?

    @Dantski, I don't think so.
     
  9. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    Well, we could always make it up as we go along; running Hinduism, trying to get people to like us. If not, we'll just kill them and get their votes that way :D

    Welcome aboard kolokol; by the comment that it's been a while since you played Monarch, I guess you're way above now? ;)
     
  10. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    lurker's comment:
    if you're looking for a challenge, i've had a game kicking around in my head for about a year now: going for an AP win where EVERY city has the AP religion in it.

    some say it's impossible . . .
     
  11. kolokol

    kolokol Chieftain

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    I was thinking of 'diplomation' having 3-4 vassels vote for you or having 60% of the vote yourself:p. I don't like the idea of turning of VC's we all understand that the spirit of the game is diplomacy. War, if any, should only be done out of diplomatic necesity.
     
  12. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Like you guys, I'm new to SGs. In fact, I've never played one. Are you planning a standard map size? If so, can I join?

    A question: can it be diplomation or does it have to be a peaceful diplo win?
     
  13. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Chieftain

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    Ignorant Teacher you're in :goodjob: Welcome!

    Roster:
    V8_mark
    TurdFerguson
    kolokol
    Ignorant Teacher
    open

    Alright, we have a few things to clear up:

    1. Are we going for UN or will we allow AP?
    2. Wars, are we going as peaceful as possible (APAP?) or are we allowing wars?
    3. If we allow wars, do we want any controls to limit "dilpomation" (I like that term)?
    4. Religion: Stick to the Hindu restriction or open it up?
    5. Map script: Tectonics/Mediterranean has been talked about, but I'm having second thoughts. Suggestions?

    My answers:
    1. I like UN only.
    2. Definitely allow war.
    3. Given that it is Monarch and some of us are Noble/Prince players, I say no limits, as long as we try for the diplomatic win. I agree with kolokol, I don't like turning off VC's.
    4. I like the Hindu idea but I do not have enough experience to know if this will overly limit us for winning UN at Monarch.
    5. I'm easy. Continents? Fractal? Medium or Big and Small? I guess I'd lean towards Continents if I had to pick.

    Has anyone checked out this article from the War Academy on Diplo victories ? Is it still more or less relevant for BTS 3.19? Any suggestions of good strategy threads or old SG's to read up on Diplo tactics?

    Shall we wait for one more sign-up?
     
  14. playshogi

    playshogi Emperor

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    Lurker comment:


    Diplomatic win parameters

    You might try these conditions except for the Emperor part.
    Also, try the Buffy Mod, -- I can hardly play a game without it, now.
    Makes great Dot Maps.
     
  15. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Glad to be in the team. :)

    AP is too easy if we plan for it and grab Theology first.
    Well, based on what you said in the registration thread, it seems that you're looking more for a traditional diplo. We could avoid declaring, but make sure to piss our targets enough so that they declare. After that, it could be fair game.

    I like the idea of sticking to it, but I say we should let it go in case it's founded in another continent or if we become the only ones running it. Another possible issue with it is that it would kind of make us heathens and force us to win diplomation. :dunno:
    I'm up for any map scripts. I'm more used to playing Hemispheres and Fractal. Continents are fine too. I don't like B & S or M & S, too much island micro.
     
  16. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Buffy forces us all to share it in order to play. Most of the information BUFFY gives you is also in the BUG Mod. BUG lets you use it and have a save that can be opened by anyone with BTS.
     
  17. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Chieftain

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    Well, I use the BUG mod, (I think I'm on 3.6 but I upgrade to 4.0 for the start).

    I'm pretty sure BUFFY introduces some minor tweaks for the HOF. Is anyone using BUFFY and if so, do you have a problem not loading it? Perhaps it doesn't matter?

    From playshogi's link:
    Spoiler :


    Anyone know about these modifiers ianw is talking about?

    Everyone cool with random opponents are should be hand pick?
     
  18. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    A game started on BUFFY will only open on BUFFY.

    After Noble or Prince the AIs automatically give a hidden -1 for the human player.
    Besides that, there's the base attituted each leader has. For example, Zara has a base +2 so it's not hard for him to be automatically pleased with you. Montezuma, OTOH, has a base -1 attitude.
    Then, there's the peaceweight of each leader. (Only works in relations between AIs). Tokugawa's peaceweight is 1 and Lincoln's is 9 so they will not like each other much.
    Finally there's the Warmonger Respect (only AI-AI too). Ragnar has a WR of 2 and Ramesses 0. In this case there's no penalty, just lack of bonus.

    It can influence us in the following scenario. Let's say Ragnar is friendly with us, with +8 diplo points. We're running against Shaka. Rags is actually +7 with us because of the standard human penalty. If he has +6 points with Shaka, it's possible that he'll vote for the Zulu because:
    -Rags peaceweight is 0 and Shaka's is 2. They're close so they like each other more (not sure how much).
    -Rags WP is 2 and Shaka's is 2 as well.
    In this case, Shaka will have between 1-3 free diplo bonus with Ragnar.

    The opposite also helps us. If it were Sitting Bull, Rags would probably vote for us. I got all the information in the Civ4 BtS reference sheet.

    No problem at all with Random.

    Edit:Sorry, what I spoke about the modifiers didn't answer the question. I have to stop reading things too quickly or I'll keep embarrassing myself. :sad:

    I don't know the answer for that specific question.
     
  19. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    Anyone know what BUFFY has that BUG doesn't? I'm still on BUG 4.0.

    Here are my answers:

    1. Are we going for UN or will we allow AP?
    AP might be easy, but it would also be in the spirit (haha) of the game. I'm happy to go with just UN though.

    2. Wars, are we going as peaceful as possible (APAP?) or are we allowing wars?
    Wars are fun :D

    3. If we allow wars, do we want any controls to limit "dilpomation" (I like that term)?
    Just play it by ear I think. Maybe a maximum of one vassal?

    4. Religion: Stick to the Hindu restriction or open it up?
    Stick to it if it's feasible given the map; if not then open it up.

    5. Map script: Tectonics/Mediterranean has been talked about, but I'm having second thoughts. Suggestions?
    I usually play Fractal, and find this gives the most balance, while being unpredictable. Continents is also fine, but a bit boring - I too dislike both Big and Small and Medium and Small, it tends to give long, snaky continents that look like prison bars.

    So yeah, I'm easy whatever, as you can see.
     
  20. TurdFerguson

    TurdFerguson Chieftain

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    AFAIK, BUFFY allows you to play HOF/GOTM games and BUG doesn't. But otherwise the same feature set. I believe the HOF mods are to remove some exploits.
     

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