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[BTS] Ukraine Civ Module

Discussion in 'Civ4 - New Civilizations' started by agentsmith952, Oct 21, 2007.

  1. agentsmith952

    agentsmith952 Warlord

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    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7430

    For your enjoyment, I've compiled various works into a new Ukrainian civ module. I hope you enjoy this work, and if there is anyone I forgot to thank, let me know!

     
  2. 0R4NG3

    0R4NG3 Prince

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    Don't mean to be a spoil-sport, but this is more of a Kievan Rus' mod than Ukraine, the only things that make it Ukrainian are Yushchenko and Tymoshenko.
    Otherwise well done! Love the national anthem!
     
  3. agentsmith952

    agentsmith952 Warlord

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    Well, if I remember correctly, Sviatoslav I was more closely associated with Kyiv than all of Kievan Rus, but point well taken ;) The early history of Russia and Ukraine are tightly joined.

    I'm glad you like it though!

    P.S. - I made the Kievan Rus artstyle for this in the Module, so you can easily make Russia use this art style as well to get the flavor units. I also didn't use all of danrell's flavor units for the Kievan Rus artstyle so that there is more of a defined line between eras, but you can get those other units from danrell's Kievan Rus unit pack.
     
  4. Xenomorph

    Xenomorph King

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    The UB is very similar in description, model and replaced building (though not actual abilities) to the Poland mod's UB. Could you possibly include an alternate UB in future releases?
     
  5. agentsmith952

    agentsmith952 Warlord

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    I had no idea. I haven't seen the Poland mod. But, I'll take a second look and see if I can come up with something else to include as an option in the future.
     
  6. uaBird

    uaBird Chieftain

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    Thanks, great job!
    But I do have a little correction: "Kievan Rus" should be spelled as Kyivan Rus, that is correct in Ukrainian pronunciation.
    And other thing, early Ukrainian and Russian history is not as connected as some pseudo historians may say.
    Wikipedia not always telling the truth. I sagest you to visit CIA World fact book that have short historical background of each country.
    According to them Ukrainian history starts from Kyivan Rus, and Russian from the Muscovy about 200 years later.
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/up.html

    Thanks :king:
     
  7. Saim

    Saim King

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    Yeah... suddenly the CIA are better historians than actual historians (or as you say, "psuedo" historians). Muscovy was originally inhabited by the Rus people, was it not? Just because Kiev was the most important city, and that was in Ukraine...
     
  8. uaBird

    uaBird Chieftain

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    American people didn't trace their history from beginning of a Great Britain or Mexicans from beginning of a Spain. Russians, though, do trace their history from the ancient Ukrainian state of Kyivan Rus' calling it the beginning of their statehood, not even taking to account that principality of Muscovy never belonged to Kyivan Rus' at all.
    Muscovites were mostly Rus' people before they mixed with other nations such as Mongolians, Finns and others. They build their country almost from a scratch starting from city of Moscow, and they can be proud of it. Taking the history of other nation for themselves is just not right...
     
  9. Zerver

    Zerver CIV4 Unit-Maker

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    You wanna say that Kievan Rus' is the ONLY UKRAINIAN history?? It is russian and ukrainian (and belarusian) ancient history that belongs to all of these nations.
     
  10. uaBird

    uaBird Chieftain

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    I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you're not correct.
    The view on the history that you provided was developed by Soviet pseudo-historians to unite 3 different Slavic nations.
    In todays Russia this view is not popular though, old Tsarism's theory of the history of Russia is given to Russian children nowadays. It states that Russia is the greatest country in the world and that it began its statehood from great Russian state of Kyivan Rus.' Ukraine, according to their interpretation, was never a real country, but a part of Russia. Ukrainians, on the other hand, they teach, are whether confused Russians, or mix of Poles and Lithuanians.
    This view on history makes Russian people really proud of their nation and country, but in reality they simply believe in Tsarism's propaganda that is based on lies.
    For as long as Russians will be taught this view on history, they will have lack of respect toward other nations, and especially Ukrainian nation.

    As Ukrainian though, I don't take big pride in the history of my ancestor's country, Kyivan Rus,' for it was created by a conquer of Kyiv city-state and surrounding Ukrainian lands by Varangians who ruled in Novgorod city. Even the very name of Rus' is not Ukrainian but has Varangian root, so current name of my country, Ukraine, that was used by simple folks in Kyivan Rus' times, suits much better. In Ukrainian it means "great land, or good country, " or simply land that one can call by the warm word "home." Ukrainians never liked their rulers and still don't like them much. They preferred to stay free if this was possible and serve no one (it's a blessing and a curse). Accordingly, any type of government or political state that was created not buy people, wasn't respected much. Only the government of Kozak's Hetmanate was well respected, for it was created by free people and for the people in a democratic manner.

    All the best,
    Victor

    P/S:
    Interestingly, when one compare written Ukrainian and Croatian languages, he will find many similarities. Croatian people moved to the coast of Adriatic sea before Kyivan Rus' was formed, but in many words Croatian language has same roots as Ukrainian language does. It's just the information to think about...
     
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  11. Zerver

    Zerver CIV4 Unit-Maker

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    Just as well as I know, these two nations were always friendly towards each other, I m not saying that Ukraine is a PART of Russia. There should be no hierarchial difference between these nations. While having many friends from ukraine, I cant say that someone is lack of respect. The western politics just have to put these nations apart, to avoid their cultural and ethnic closing in. Croatian, just like other Indo-european languages, can have same roots with any eastern european nation you like, even russian.

    PS
    Im getting really sad that it is coming successeful for White House and his puppet Yushenko to bring apart the brother-nations.
    And, if knew, Im reading not only Russia's position opinion, but also others pro- and anti-russian info. And so I have my own position to stay.
    Sorry, If I dissapointed you too.
     
  12. Zerver

    Zerver CIV4 Unit-Maker

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    Hope you realize how stupid this replie is. If it was true, russians would never travel a lot in the world, especially into Ukraine.
     
  13. agentsmith952

    agentsmith952 Warlord

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    My grandfather was Ukrainian and I've been trying hard to find my Ukrainian roots, and that's what made me want to have Ukraine in Civ IV and makes this mod.

    As for th history part, from an outside perspective, I think it is kind of a mix of what both of you are saying. Kievan Rus (or Kyivan Rus, sorry, it's hard to keep the different spellings straight some times!) was a uniting of different city states in Russia during a time where there was little cohesiveness. The capital and cultural center was in Kyiv, and there was obviously a different "ethnic" group of people there than the Rus from further north. I just used that as the basis for the Ukraine mod because it is a part of Ukraine's history and Ukraine is located and descended from that cultural center. It can jsut as easily be a part of the Russia's history, too, because they were the "Rus" portion of that combined area, although their portion was the northern regions of Muscovy. It wasn't necessarily that they were all "friendly" because the city states of the time all had their own interests at heart. It was more of the bringing together through conquest, which is nothign to be ashamed of because that's how the world worked at the time.

    However, that being said, I really disagree with the notion that there is no difference between the two people. They have a different history and different lineage after their very distant Slavic relatives arrived on the scene (the Rus are, if I rememebr correctly, decsended from the local Slavs and Varangians (spelling?)). And, I know it's in the past, but there have been events where there were systematic attempts at "Rusification." That wouldn't have been needed or attempted if there were no ethnic and cultural differences to start with.
     
  14. Zerver

    Zerver CIV4 Unit-Maker

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    Kievan Rus' was a same medieval feudal system state, and like France and Germany, it was split into numerous parts (principalities, cities and their lands). Moscow was founded much more later than Kiev and Novgorod, so it's a mistake to treat Moscowy state as non-relative to Kiev
     
  15. agentsmith952

    agentsmith952 Warlord

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    I meant to say Novgorod, not Moscow. Sorry! :(
     
  16. uaBird

    uaBird Chieftain

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    It's simply incorrect, Ukraine and Muscovy were never really friendly. In Rus' times Muscovy conquered Novgorod and forced it to become a part of a Muscovy, then it burned Kyiv to the ground. In the times of Kozaks Muscovite's tzar forced freedom lowing Ukrainians to serve his military needs. After Kozaks were united with king of Sweden and were defeated by Muscovy, the capital of a Kozak's state Baturyn was burned to the ground and all its inhabitants, including women and children, were massacred. Following that most part of a kozaks was sent to build St. Petersburg and others were exiled to Siberia. Rural Ukrainian population was forced into slavery (kripatstvo) till the times of short lived Ukrainian independence from 1917 to 1921. All time when eastern Ukraine was under Muscovite rule, Ukrainian culture was suppressed and Ukrainian language often prohibited. In the Soviet times 7 to 10 million of Ukrainians were murdered by starvation. If it's a friendship then I must revise my understanding of it.
    I wouldn't say that Yushchenko is a White House puppet, for he was supported by all Western world, not USA only.
    In addition, if I would live in Israel, I wouldn't be so much hostile toward USA, for that country plays a big role in kipping Israel safe and on the map.

    About Croatian language, the person I was speaking with, of Croatian nationality, told me that there are not much similarities between his language and Russian, but he did found a lot of similarities in written Croatian and Ukrainian.

    Thank you,
    Victor

    P/S
    I'm not against Ukrainian - Russian friendship, but against false historical views and theories that are based on those views.
     
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  17. uaBird

    uaBird Chieftain

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    All confusion about history of two countries comes from times when Muscovy adopted name Russia for itself. Name Russia was a Greek form of the name of Kyivan Rus' state. The name Rus' is most likely of Varangian root, for it was Varangian warriors who captured Ukrainian city-state of Kyiv and began to build their empire around it.*
    After Kyivan Rus' fell down and its territories were incorporated into Lithuania, Poland and Muscovy, the tzar of a Muscovy adopted the name and a history of a Rus' for his principality in order to be accepted and respected between western nations (principality of Muscovy never belonged to Kyivan Rus'). That kind of Muscovite's history was widely accepted by western scholars, for there was no Ukraine for centuries, and accordingly, no contradiction. Only now it is changing, and western scholars finally learning a true history of two different nations.

    *It's good to remember though that Varangians were ruling elite and mercenary military units only, so no mixing of two nations on a great scale took place. Varangian princes were assimilated into Ukrainian population, and Varangian mercenaries were replaced by Ukrainian ethnic people some times later.

    All the best,
    Victor
     
  18. uaBird

    uaBird Chieftain

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    It's just a simple language of digits. Couple months ago I seen statistics from independent polls showing that more than half of Russia's population dislike Ukrainians, and the number is rapidly growing. Most likely it's happening because of Putin's anti Ukrainian propaganda.
    On the other hand, about 10% (or less than that) of Ukrainian population dislike Russians.
    So no, I don't think my statement was stupid.

    Thank you
     
  19. Zerver

    Zerver CIV4 Unit-Maker

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    It's not your business towards whom I am hostile. Who said that Im hostile at ALL? I'm Israeli-russian, got it? And I love both countries, and Im very sad that historically thanks to some unwise Soviet rulers these states must be in the different sides.
    Yes - USA supports Israel, but only because there are a lot of rich Jews.

    And stop saying bull%&*$ about anti-Ukrainian propaganda, looks more like you are a Squipe's homie, who also keeps here anti-Russian posts. I lived in Russia many years and came back to Israel, and I never saw anti-Ukrainian propaganda. Beter see how Yushenko under US' rapidly spread's his own propaganda (and unfortunatly not really Russian-friendly). How he's rapidly bringing apart the two Churches, the two NATIONS, moving his own (Althrough, I dont really think so) folk towards nations that never wished anything good to them.
    And I dont know where you've got youre strange statistics (maybe you was travelling across whole Russia in your dream?)
    So, please, stop veshat' lapshu na ushi ;)
     
  20. Zerver

    Zerver CIV4 Unit-Maker

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    Putin had a lot of business to do in place of anti-someone propaganda.
    And the people (not only Russian, don't worry) regret his retriement.
    Of course I expect a GIANT post with statistics about "How many VICTIMS of the BRUTUAL Putin's REGIME are happy that he's a president no more" from you, no wonder
     

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