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[BtS][WoC] Rapture

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by johny smith, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. Arian

    Arian No more ghostbusting!!

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    They all look good Johny! :goodjob:
     
  2. ADP101

    ADP101 Warlord

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    hey im having a problem with the mod: i have bts 3.17, and i installed ur mod .12 using the auto installer, open up civ iv and rapture isnt listed under load a mod, waht should i do?
     
  3. rockinroger

    rockinroger WoC Team Member

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    Try changing the install path to your desktop then just move that folder to bts mods. Ill check johny's Installer as hes getting ready to fly to Seattle from Germany.
     
  4. rockinroger

    rockinroger WoC Team Member

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  5. johny smith

    johny smith Deity

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    Ya I going to be gone for a bit. I sent up a new 0.13 installer with the older stable dll. It adds a lot of movies and other small tweaks.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10440

    If you want to use the not perfectly stable dll to see the founding of cults. It is available in the SVN. I am using Hellenism as the test subject in it. Here is a link for the unstable dll.
    https://worldofciv.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wocrapture/Assets/CvGameCoreDLL.dll

    I also left out new buttons for some of the new units, but some are in there anyway(Nordic, Egyptian, and Native shamans) just not new buttons for them.

    Anyway it is very large for the super amount of movies made by Arian. So if you want to see the movies made so far they are in and quite nice.

    Thanks to all for the good comments and help.
     
  6. johny smith

    johny smith Deity

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    I am back and going to get working on the new dll. It will have the founding of cults in the newer one. Faichele has worked out some bugs for the newer WoC version. So expect to see more in the coming weeks.
     
  7. johny smith

    johny smith Deity

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    I plan in the next update to add a neolithic era, looking into a quantified resource system now, Colonization land base terrain for sure, maybe completely different yields for the terrain. So if anyone has any thoughts on early techs I am all ears. And the other thing would be maybe some more resources for a stone age. And always any ideas for wonders for specific gods would be appreciated.
     
  8. Rone

    Rone Chieftain

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    Neolithic Era, eh? So with this mod, is it just adding religious aspects or were you planning to add non-religious tech, too?

    Well, here's some ideas that might help (religious related) for the Neolithic era:
    Burial (intentional burial practices)
    Drawing (or "Cave Art")
    Sacrificial Offerings (whether spear points, food, etc.)
    Totemism (the establishment of totems as sacred symbols) --> Sculpture could come much later from this tech
    Mythology (developing the explanations of origin) --> Storytelling (passing on the myths) --> Oral Tradition (recognized stories that embody beliefs)


    Wonders:
    Chauvet Cave Paintings
    Maeshowe Burial Mound

    Stonehenge would be appropriate for this era, too. :)
     
  9. johny smith

    johny smith Deity

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    I plan to go non-religion too, but I need to explain. I making two components basically that will need each other. 1 being Rapture, and 2 being a Stone Age component. I need the earlier period for the earlier religions.

    And thanks for the ideas. They are good. Just need to piece all of the pieces together for the era. Any ideas of what benefits the new wonders could give?
     
  10. Rone

    Rone Chieftain

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    Non-religious tech:

    Stone Tools
    Fire
    Pottery --> Pottery Kiln (also requires Fire) --> Mud Bricks --> Potter's Wheel (also requires Wheel)
    Skinning --> Weaving --> Spinning/Knitting --> Loom --> Textiles
    Tracking --> Hunting --> Trapping
    Spear Fishing --> Bait Fishing --> Net Fishing
    Domestication -- Yoke & Harness --> Plough Farming (also requires Farming)
    Animal Husbandry (requires Domestication)
    Gathering (plants) --> Farming --> Fertilization
    Wheel
    Mining --> Smelting --> Metal Casting
    Masonry (requires Mining)
    - - - - - - - -

    Possible Resources:
    Berries
    Flint
    Mud
    Wood and Animal Skins (would be good if these were not separate resources but simply "available" with groups of animals and trees)
    - - - - - - - -

    Anyway, those are some ideas. Hope they help. :)
     
  11. Rone

    Rone Chieftain

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    Wonders:

    Chauvet Cave Paintings
    World Wonder
    Requires Drawing ("Cave Art")
    Culture +6, +2 Great Birth (Great Prophet)
    +1 Happiness with Shamanism (religious civic)
    Requires 120 hammers
    Obsolete with Free Artistry or Oil Painting or something like that in the medieval era

    Maeshowe Burial Mound
    World Wonder
    Requires Stone Tools
    Culture +6, +2 Great Birth (Great Prophet)
    +1 Happiness with Shamanism (religious civic)
    Requires 120 hammers
    Obsolete with ?
     
  12. johny smith

    johny smith Deity

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    Good ideas. I am changing a lot of the mechanics of the normal game, and I know you can not read my mind ahead of time. But anything that you come think I can adapt. From my religions the starting 16 would be used. So as for the wonders you listed I am thinking of them being available only for the Celtic groups, and when built they make a cult religion start.

    The techs sound good. Fish trapping is one beyond the net fishing for a tech I think. Pottery should require mining I believe and fire. But would like some more ideas for different techs related to fire besides just one. Just more advanced techniques thinking. I think the wheel needs animal domestication first.

    I already began to change the yields.


    So I have 5 different types of yields for a stone age but that can be changed if a better idea. I wanted them general enough. Fruits, Wild Game, Fish, Timber, and Ore.

    And it is being worked on now that the improvements would give a quantified resource so I am thinking the improvements will be specialized more for a certain resource. Basically I am planning to make a farm you have to capture a seed, and then plant it through an improvement. Then this improvement gives a quantified amount of a resource. Like for example you find rice then later you have to plant it. Then say it gives 100 rice. So in the city 50 of the rice turns directly to food for your city and the left over goes to making another resource.

    So to try to sum up what I am thinking. Without an improvement you would not specialize so much so would not be a resource as it plays in the game. So the yields are not stored in your city just the resources after you start building improvements and start having more specialized use of the land. I hope I am making some sense.

    Good Ideas though:)

    If you get anymore I am all ears. I would like some more ideas for wonders from other areas outside of Europe as well.
     
  13. johny smith

    johny smith Deity

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    "Culture +6, +2 Great Birth (Great Prophet)" I think this needs to be changed to something more unique for each. I am still brainstorming over them. But would like benefit that is unique and it does not have to related religion bonuses.
     
  14. Rone

    Rone Chieftain

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    Interesting. Well, I was just pitching a few rough ideas to see how they may or may not fit into what you were working on. They were very rough, so moving techs around was expected. :)

    The idea behind the burial mounds and cave paintings as World Wonders was done intentionally as a rough idea. There are many types of cave paintings and burial mounds found around the world. As such, they my work better as a National Wonder instead of a World Wonder (meaning each civilization can make their own). I kept the idea of general cultural bonus and happiness fairly generic figuring that they ought to be minor contributions.

    So, help me figure out what exactly you want to achieve. It seems there are two mods here:
    1) Neolithic Era (perhaps as a "pre-Ancient" era) which frontloads the existing Civ IV game.
    2) Rapture which greatly expands the role of religion in Civ IV.

    If I have understood Rapture correctly, how do you plan to address religious civics?
     
  15. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

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    You might want to check out the mod Rise of Mankind (RoM) and even look at the old Civ III Double Your Pleasure and/or Rise & Rule mods which started your tech level much lower, not to mention units to match

    Some suggestion from a history geek who sometimes is willing to accept some restrictions on my game play for the sake of historical simulation.
    1) Roads need to come much later. The first major road builders where the Romans and the whole Roman Road system was practically a Wonder to itself.
    2) Unlike Civ III, there isn't a way to travel along rivers, but they were really important before roads/canals. RoM has a River port that is a good building.
    3) One thing that really slows things down, but in a good historical way, was farms couldn't be built until crop rotation. This tech didn't mean there wasn't farming prior to it, but not at the scale or the ability to maximize your food output. If you don't want to go that far, put in that tech and have farms prior to that not put out as much food.
    4.) Again, check out the Double Your Pleasure and/or Rise & Rule tech tree in Civ III. It was huge and even if you don't use it, it has a lot of good ideas in it.
    5.) Steal as much as you can when it comes to units. I hate that in vanilla BTS you go from Frigates right to Battleships.

    Personally, I wish Firaxis would come out with a version of Civ that is broken up into chunks so that each era had it's own techs and units and the scale of the game would be tied to the tech. So you'd play Neolithic to perhaps Classical. Then at the end of that game, you could have the option of starting the next game either from where you left off, or start the next level of the game in the Dark Ages and go through Renaissance until around 1600 or so. Then the next game would go from the Age of Discovery till around 1900. Then the next block would go from there to the end.

    Baring all that, there is no reason why you can't have your basic mod, but 'chunk' up the time periods into scenarios.
     
  16. Rone

    Rone Chieftain

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    More tech:

    Drawing ("Cave Art" --> Pictograms (precedes Alphabet/Writing)
    Domestication --> Animal Husbandry --> Selective Breeding
    Ceramics (development of glaze techniques after Pottery Kiln)
    Copper Working (after Mining-Smelting-Metal Casting)
    Metal Tools (after Copper Working)
    Skinning --> Leatherworking

    More Wonder:
    Sweet Track (world's oldest timber trackway)
    +1 road movement inside nation's boundaries

    Spirit Cave
    +1 happiness to agrarian societies (+1 happiness per fruits)

    Just some more ideas. :)
     
  17. johny smith

    johny smith Deity

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    Well the idea with the Wonders are that they basically will act like national wonders by the fact that they are limited to certain Civs, and there will a competition I guess for them being different within a much smaller group of like 3 civs.

    For example Rapture the Civilizations begin with a religion. I am limiting the Statue of Zeus to Hellenistic Civilizations. You must have the Hellenism religion in your city as prereq for the wonder and you get the same benefits as before so I need as equally as powerful wonders. Once the Statue of Zeus wonder is built it founds a new religion the Zeus cult. So I am wanting some religion wonders really a little later in game for this. There can be other wonders much earlier.

    But in the Stone Age itself if there is moving camps there will not be any wonders really built. So rather save them to near the beginning of the ancient era.

    Rapture there can be as many civics as needed I have not thought out the civics yet so much except there will stages of Sacrifice civics and you can sacrifice units to gain something in a city like health, gold, or etc.

    But thanks for the input again.

    @arkham4269

    I am going to have to have farms once agriculture as a tech is around because there will be no direct food from grown plants otherwise, but I hope to have a way to show another farm with crop rotation. The rivers I am thinking about playing with some more. I would like to actually have units that use the rivers and coast. Roads I am thinking more types, but that roads do not come in till after a major city is formed if I get the moving camps working. And thanks for ideas and a source for me to look through.
     
  18. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    What about not allowing/limiting settlers until the ancient era (to simulate tribes; maybe you could adapt a "camp" mechanics for a moving city from Warlords barbarian scenario?)

    Also note that the pottery had a "revolution" with an invention of the potter's wheel in Mesopotamia sometime between 6,000 and 4,000 BCE so wheel with pottery may give some advanced pottery tech which allows really profit from the technology.

    I like the idea very much, it will definitely encourage me to play the civilization again (for now I rarely play civ4 and FFH2 mod but a bit tired of it; your mod seems to introduce a lot and to make a new game for me).

    On wonders; looking at real ones:

    Gigantiga and Megalithic Temples to the Mother Goddess (pre-stonehenge megalithes). (built in Malta ~4th to 3rd millennium BC)
    There were a lot of them. They were built in europe by some stone-age civilization before the Egyptians' pyramids.

    The Neolithic stone circles of Tyrone ~1500 BC, Ireland

    For ancient egyptians/african civs:
    An ancient maze/labyrinth. ~20th century BC
    From Herodotus, Book II:
    Abu Simbel: Monument of Ramesses the Great ~1250 BC
    One of his Ramesses II's most imposing monuments, Abu Simbel was built far up the Nile.

    Ancient Near East:
    Ruins of the Sumerian Ziggurat at Ur ~2200 BC
    Dedicated to the Sumerian moon god, a single bedchamber—occupied at night by just one woman—was all that was placed atop this ancient stepped pyramid.

    The Phoenician Sailing Ship ~2nd to 1st millennium BC
    (What about a world unit world wonder or a world woner which allows unique units?)
    Phoenician sailors were the master sea-traders of the ancient Mediterranean, and built the most advanced naval vessels of their time—wonders of the world in their own way. Their explorers, such as Hanno, journeyed far and wide. The Phoenicians may even have circumnavigated Africa, 2000 years before any European accomplished this feat.

    The Ziggurat of Marduk, Ancient Tower of Babel ~7th century BC or earlier
    The Biblical myth of the Tower of Babel was almost certainly inspired by the Ziggurat of Marduk at Babylon, an enormous seven-stage multicolored pyramidal tower over 300 feet in height.

    Outside the euroasia continent:
    The Mayan Pyramids ~7th century AD
    The Mayan pyramids were both temples and tombs, and atop them Mayan nobles, who believed that blood nourished the gods, underwent ritual self-torture and mutilation—all designed to keep the cosmos running smoothly.

    The Giants of Easter Island ~1000 to 1500 BC
    The unique Polynesian civilization that erected the gaunt, monolithic statues on Easter Island, was wept out by some event, maybe by an ecological disaster.

    Native americans had a common pattern of the Tohono O'odham labyrinth which features I'itoi, the "Man in the Maze". The Tonoho O'odham pattern has two distinct differences from the Greek: it is radial in design, and the entrance is at the top, where traditional Greek labyrinths have the entrance at the bottom.


    Other:
    The Midas Monument
    The Midas Monument is one of the few surviving relics of Phrygian civilization, which occupied Anatolia during a dark age in history.
     
  19. johny smith

    johny smith Deity

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    I am working on the camps now with Faichele from the Genghis Khan scenario for the moving camp. The Mongol camp. I am hoping for it to allow you choose to upgrade the camp itself through promotions to show adding things to the camp based on if you have a tech. Now I am hoping you will get popups for the camp when creating something from it and that it will use the land from a radius of one around the camp.

    Pottery I am hoping to actually turn into a resource really after you have the tech. Don't know about the trading yet. So I am hoping to allow cottages to actually make a resource not just commerce as before. Well anyway I will let everyone if actually get something working for the camp.
     
  20. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Do you plan to tie all the cult religions to wonders?

    Also sorry for the camp, I didn't read the thread to the last post so I didn't see it mentioned :).

    About cave paintings, they should add more culture than mounds and should generate artists not prophets, as a side feature they could give experience to recon units (you know, all these pictures of hunting, how to get the animals to fall from the cliff and die or how to harrass mammoths were not only pictures but some kind of educational guides too :))
     

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