[BtS] Wolfshanze's Revolution

Any feedback from the last alpha build? So far my only issue is that the AI is pretty ******ed about using the legend units, but I'm not really sure how to fix this. I've asked in the main forums but got no response so far. Also The Sacred band was coming a bit late, so I've changed it to require Seafaring instead of currency.
 
Well, I'm actually confused about how to install...

I've download and extracted BST to the right location, copied over everything.... But when you say copy over the "Arts and Sound" folders, if a wholesale copy n paste is done on that, won't the new content files and folders be overwritten with the old ones?

I might try creating copying the files and folders required from WolfRev FIRST, then extract from 7-zip.... Don't see any reason why that shouldn't work... :)
 
Well, most of what get's overwritten will be XML, some python, not much though, haven't edited much python. I suppose you could just copy WolfRevolution, rename it BST, and copy the downloaded BST into the same folder, and select "yes to all" when prompted that it needs to overwrite files. That should work just as well, never thought of doing it that way, but it should work. Mainly there is just some added art, and new XML and python that needs to be replaced or added to WolfRevolution for BST to work. The reason I didn't include the Art, Sounds, gamecore.dll and Wolfshanze.fpk in the BST alpha build is because the BST alpha build is 11.2MB, whereas if I included all that stuff which is in WolfRevolutin, and can just be coppied into BST's Assets folder it would make the alpha build 400+MB. I'll include everything in the Beta build, but that's a lot of tedious work, which I'm just procrastinating on, lol.
 
Maybe I didnt install the new build right, but I seem to missing the interface for BUG of at least the icons. Also pink squares cover up the enhanced combat odds mouseover. Leonardo's Worksop art and button are missing as well. Maybe I'll try to reinstall with the methods mentioned above.

Haven't actually played it, just poked around in world builder. I noticed that the SAS doesn' have paradrop animations (or the Special Forces) I should be able to attach it to the SAS, not sure about SF. And the button for Legio X actually has wrong model on it. I think that wouldv'e been a button for companion cavalry if you had added that. I'll make a button using Legio X model.

Enlightened didnt make the this build? Is it on the board for beta or is it getting thrown out?

Just got 3ds max working right again. If you still want to use Ansar warror, I will optimize the poly count down below 2000.

How are you going to address the AI and wonder units? Is there any precedence in the game for special attention being paid to a particular unit? On the rare occasion that Ive seen an AI warlord, the AI just throws 'em at you like that's the cool thing to be doing.
 
achilleszero said:
Maybe I didnt install the new build right, but I seem to missing the interface for BUG of at least the icons. Also pink squares cover up the enhanced combat odds mouseover. Leonardo's Worksop art and button are missing as well. Maybe I'll try to reinstall with the methods mentioned above.
Click to expand...
That's missing art. You need to copy in the entire art folder, the sound folder, the wolfshanze.fpk, and the gamecore from WolfRevolution into the assets folder of BST. Of course, thinking about it, it probably would just be easier to rename WolfRevolution to BST, and just extract the ziped alpha build to the same folder, and selecting yes to all when asked if you want to overwrite.

achilleszero said:
Haven't actually played it, just poked around in world builder. I noticed that the SAS doesn' have paradrop animations (or the Special Forces) I should be able to attach it to the SAS, not sure about SF. And the button for Legio X actually has wrong model on it. I think that wouldv'e been a button for companion cavalry if you had added that. I'll make a button using Legio X model.
Click to expand...
Any button you want to make, that's cool by me, I'll definatly add them in. Thanks for doing that, I'm scared to do art :lol:. As for buttons, I have a request, I need buttons for the pathfinders. I was thinking basically just the various ethnic explorer buttons, but instead of a sword or whatever, have a musket in the background. Oh and also the Royal Galleon needs a button.

achilleszero said:
Enlightened didnt make the this build? Is it on the board for beta or is it getting thrown out?
Click to expand...
It's in there. Just isn't displayed in the Sevopedia. In the process of correcting that right now. Also going to fix the issue with unit naming... Just been lazy and haven't dealt with these. They are both merely aesthetic issues, so it's not important for the alpha builds, but since I know (or at least think I know) how to fix them, I need to get this done before the beta release.

achilleszero said:
Just got 3ds max working right again. If you still want to use Ansar warror, I will optimize the poly count down below 2000.
Click to expand...
Couldn't use two replacements for the Knight. And I tried to get a balanced and cool way to include the Answar, but nothing just worked out from my perspective, so I think I'm dropping this. The Camel Archer though does frequently get voted as the crappiest UU, so it's getting buffed, rather significantly. It now gets a 25% bonus to mounted and melee units.

achilleszero said:
How are you going to address the AI and wonder units? Is there any precedence in the game for special attention being paid to a particular unit? On the rare occasion that Ive seen an AI warlord, the AI just throws 'em at you like that's the cool thing to be doing.
Click to expand...
This is a complex issue. The AI actually does have ways of protecting high level units, but the issue is these only apply to a unit in a stack... Anyway, this is probably the tufest issue to adress, I am asking about it in the forums for help and what not. What I really hope is that Noque releases his source code for protecting high level units (basically forces high level units to only be in a stack). This thread is in the better AI forums, and his AI logic was still experimental last he posted, haven't seen a new post in that thread in 2 weeks, but I just posted today there, asking for any source code he has. Hopefully he's still around, and the AI logic is decent, if so I'm certain I can add in a small function to get the AI to view legends as high level units. Once i get the AI to consider legends high level that'll help alot, as they'll be protected and used wisely in the stack, but that's only half the issue... Which is why I'm really hoping that there is some code I can use to force high level units into stacks.

Edit:
As for playing it, so far I've just watched the AI play, and balanced things from there. I've started a game right now, and just getting into the mid classical era. The new unit stats make the early game much more dynamic, but harder, at least it seems to be.
 
Hi Phungus

As you suggested, and as I hinted at, it's better to just copy over the old WolfRev folders first and extract over the top, as old files will thus get overwritten rather than new ones :)

I haven't hit the era yet, but the way it's laid out in Pedia worries me - The French Foriegn Legion... replaces Grenadier... but for which civ? :) Presumably France, but the Pedia doesn't pick up on that tag... It also isn't tagged as a World Unit, max build = 1, so I'm wondering if it's been implemented properly?

Also, found a bug with RevDCM - Have Ranged Bombardment selected as an option (for all units except Catapult)... neither the Trebs nor the Bombards I've built thus far can range bombard despite the option being turned on, and multiple restarts of the game being attempted. Curiously the legend unit for the big bombard does specify ranged attack... is it possible that code for this unit has broken something to do with ranged bombardment generally?

Re: SAS unit appearance... if you like I can peek into some of the other mods I've DL'd and see if we can come up with a better button and model for it? History in the Making mod had a great model and button for it actually. Not sure who credit would go to for the unit, but Grave would know that info. Additionally the model he used also had parachute animations...

As for suggestions for African/Asian Legend units... the Yamato?

It remains the heaviest Battleship ever constructed, and was the largest battleship of World War 2. Maybe give the unit a collaterol damage promo considering the firepower the ship possessed, give it bonuses against other ships, but a penalty vs air?

For an African unit, I guess it would depend on what era you're trying to target, but the Madhi Rebels of the mid 19th century certainly gave British infantry a fair amount of stick... not sure if the Brits were packing rifled muskets or early breech loading rifles at the time... Failing that I believe Askari's might be the go if you want an African legend unit? March and First Strike bonuses probably most appropriate - the German trained Askari's of the East African campaign were particular lethal.
 
phungus420 said:
And I tried to get a balanced and cool way to include the Answar, but nothing just worked out from my perspective, so I think I'm dropping this. The Camel Archer though does frequently get voted as the crappiest UU, so it's getting buffed, rather significantly. It now gets a 25% bonus to mounted and melee units.
Click to expand...

Why not have the camel archer replace horsemen, and give it appropriate stats?
 
@Uncle Anton:
Thanks for the feedback, I'll look a the French Foreign Legion, it's certainly possible I messed up the XML on it, I didn't thouroughly test the unit, crammed it in while I was in a hurry to go, and trying to upload that build...

As for DCM ranged bombard, I've removed all bombard range for all units accept Artillery, which now has a 100% hit rate. So you need artillery to get ranged bombard. Ranged bombard is on by default in BST and is considered a game rule, it shouldn't be toggled off, as Artillery (and mobile artillery) have had their strength reduced by 2 as a result (but pick up ranged bombarding to balance things out).

As far as models and a button for SF, point me toward a better one, And I'll use it, same for SAS.

And I'll think about the Mahdi rebels.

@BobTheTerrible:
I'll reconsider it, but like I said, I went over this a lot, spent quite a few hours on it, and just couldn't find a way that seemed to work stats wise.
 
phungus420 said:
@BobTheTerrible:
I'll reconsider it, but like I said, I went over this a lot, spent quite a few hours on it, and just couldn't find a way that seemed to work stats wise.
Click to expand...

I know that's the second time I suggested it, but I'm not trying to be redundant, just curious what the reasons were. It could be something like +25% vs regular horsemen (horses were scared of camels because of their unfamiliarity) and maybe something like also starting with Flanking I? I'm not particularly committed to having these units ingame, just curious why it wouldn't work out.
 
Well, nothing really specific. I just tweaked the positions of the Answar and Camel archer, having them replace horseman, knights or Cuirassiers, and never found an arrangement I liked (I did like the arrangement where they both replaced the knight, but sadly the engine wol't allow two unittypes replacing a single unit class, and I'm not about to go in and mod this into the SDK, I could but it's alot of work for something I don't find that pressing). So instead I chose to simply buff the camel archer. There is no concrete reason for this, this is just the way the changes "felt" to me when tweaking them.

Edit: and just to keep this visible the current BSTalpha 0.4 is found here: http://www.atomicgamer.com/file.php?id=77200
Installation is a little more complex then for WolfRevolution, as this is an alpha build, so it's more for testing purposes, and thus I don't want it to have an easy installation. The easiest way to install it is to copy WolfRevolution to a new folder, rename it BST, extract the BSTalph zip in that folder, and select "yes to all" when prompted if you want to overwrite. Then move the folder back into your mods directory.
 
Thx for the Arty info.... I think I actually may have read that before and forgotten it, so my bad. :)

Oh, and Destroyers upgrade to Attack Subs? Is that intended? :)

As for SAS... I was hoping to go into the HiTM mod for you and just poach the button and model, but Grave's used an FPK file... It's almost 400Mb's worth... :sad:

The SF Button and model I think are actually quite ok btw :)

EDIT:
I also tried going into my copy of CivFusion, which is Ripple01's mod. It has a pretty similar unit model for the Marine unfortunately he's used a fpk as well.... The model is based off existing Marine, but he has an SA-80, and a modern British style helmet. The button is of a British soldier too. Unsure as to the poly count. The SAS model grave used is the exact same model but with "cam paint" covering the guys arms and face. And, it has animations. Knowing my luck, I've probably just suggested a unit model with an unacceptably high poly count anyway :)
 
Uncle Anton said:
Thx for the Arty info.... I think I actually may have read that before and forgotten it, so my bad. :)

Oh, and Destroyers upgrade to Attack Subs? Is that intended? :)

As for SAS... I was hoping to go into the HiTM mod for you and just poach the button and model, but Grave's used an FPK file... It's almost 400Mb's worth... :sad:

The SF Button and model I think are actually quite ok btw :)

EDIT:
I also tried going into my copy of CivFusion, which is Ripple01's mod. It has a pretty similar unit model for the Marine unfortunately he's used a fpk as well.... The model is based off existing Marine, but he has an SA-80, and a modern British style helmet. The button is of a British soldier too. Unsure as to the poly count. The SAS model grave used is the exact same model but with "cam paint" covering the guys arms and face. And, it has animations. Knowing my luck, I've probably just suggested a unit model with an unacceptably high poly count anyway :)
Click to expand...

Here is the SAS model from HiTM http://http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=4208I don't remember it having paradrop animations though. This is a model I used as an earlier example for an SAS button and the poly count was way below 2000.
 
On a machine with 6GB of Ram (running Windows 7)- I got a lategame memory allocation error.

Unsure why, it didn't look like most of my RAM was being used honestly.
 
Uncle Anton said:
Well done, that man :)
Hmmmm..... when Grave used the SAS Model he had Para animations with it... not sure where they were acquired from, but they were there...
Click to expand...

You're right they do have paradrop animation. The base model from the DB doesnt, it uses marine's.

Idea's for non amero/euro wonder units:

-The Golden Horde: Don't know how you would implement this. Not really something that you could capture with one unit, even a wonder unit. The horde was way bigger than any what any other unit represents. It would be more like a whole bunch of units.

If the idea of a mongolesque unit does strike you than I would think that Ghengis' Dogs of War would be a better unit. They were 4 of Ghengis' head generals. Subadai, Jebe, 2 others that I cant remember. They were the driving force behind the early years of the mongol expansion.

-The Mamluks: Another rather large group. Being descended from slavest hey had a slave favored social caste. They were so badass that they beat back the mongols (long after the days of Ghengis and Dogs of War) several times. So ticked off were the mongols that they offered the crusaders a deal. They told the crusaders that in exchange for helping them wipe out the mamluks, they would help them take Jarusalem, let them keep it, and help protect it from any further muslim attempts to take it back.

- Queen Ann's Revenge: Blackbeard's ship. I know he was born english but he held allegiance to no country. Plus pirates are cool.
 
arstal said:
On a machine with 6GB of Ram (running Windows 7)- I got a lategame memory allocation error.

Unsure why, it didn't look like most of my RAM was being used honestly.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, Civ4 can't use more than 2 GB RAM, so even with 6GB, you'll still be at the mercy of large poly units.
 
GoodGame said:
AFAIK, Civ4 can't use more than 2 GB RAM, so even with 6GB, you'll still be at the mercy of large poly units.
Click to expand...

I thought he had removed all the large poly units. Or is 2 gb ram still not enough to handle 2000 poly units?

I only have 1 gb RAM and the only time I get MAF's with BTS is when I reload an auto or quick save. In the industrial era forward my game just slows down to a snails pace between turns.
 
BobTheTerrible said:
I believe large poly units are not removed in WolfRevolution but they have been left out of BST. So it depends which mod he's using.
Click to expand...
This is true, WolfRevolution still has all the default Wolfshanze units, some of which in all their 20,000 poly glory.
For BST I've removed all high poly units. There may still be some high poly buildings in city art though... Another thing I failed to consider were large texture units, units with 1024+ pixel size skins, these are also hard on the CPU if you don't have one of the latest video cards. I'm happy though just to have all the high poly units ripped out, there were quite a few of them in the 5000+ range. If someone wants to anylize the units again and find 1024+ texture units, I'll rip some of them out, especially late game ones (but I'd probably keep a few, for instance if the American or Russian heavy footman was 1024 I'd keep it in, if they were larger then 1024, I'd rip them out, but any industrial, modern or future era unit with a texture skin size of 1024 or more should be removed). I haven't figured out nifskope and also am focused on another issue right now, but if these models are identified, I'd remove them. Likewise with the city art, but this is much harder. I haven't quite figured out how to deal with the cityLsystem and cityPsystem xml files, but if some buildings were found to excede the 2000 poly count limit we've set for performance, I'd ask for help and see if anyone knows how to replace single buildings, and if not just go in and replace all the references with the default buildings.
 
So Civ IV is capped at 2GB no matter how much RAM you have?

Well, in that case I still managed to go over 2GB, on a normal sized map at normal speed, though it was late game. I'd hate to think of the people who play large maps. BST not Wolfrev
 
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