[BUG/EXPLOIT] how to get 9000 gold in one turn from the AI + war elephants are IMBA

[lachootbg]

Hello all ! On first place I NEED to say how dissapointed i am for how we are used as free betatesters by the firaxis company and how they basicly sold us a 50 €/$ NOT TESTED and unfinished beta version of a game as if it was a finished product. I am really dissapointed...
So let me tell u what i found out about the AI. I was playing a game on huge terra map with 22 AIs + 28 city states ,marathon speed (later I found out that it was possible that alexander can ask me to kill alexander , or elisabeth to kill elisabeth... but thats another story allready mentioned in the bug list u have). I had 3 cities and found out that i can trade my cotton for money and i did so... 22 times What i did was ask all for cash offering my cotton or if not accepted - offering gold/turn. When an AI accepts giving me all his cash i declare war and get back my cotton or g/t, and offer it to the next one and once again declare war. I managed to get 8900 in 1 turn (turn was 169). with these 8900 i started purchasing 1 elephant per city per turn during 3 turns. I was preparing for the incoming FIGHT. But for my surpise on the 3rd purchase (turn 172) all the fooled AIs came to me, begging for peace, offering me all the rest of their cash +g/t + all resourses + some of them even offeren me 2 cities.NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BROKEN AI, holy crap.... Yes but this was not the end... after denying the peace i started the mega invasion... then i discovered that lvl 3 elephants with 3rd lvl drill or shock are offered the blitz upgrade at lvl 4... and it alowed them to range atack 3 times...and on 5th lvl the were offered the +1 movement promotion , which combined made them possible to range atack 4 times in a single turn.... well I HOPE THIS WAS NOT INTENDED BY DESIGN cose i dont see why should i use catapults
Catapult
Movement: 2; Strength: 4; Ranged Strength: 14; Range: 2; Cost: 100; Requires: 1 Iron
Technology: Mathematics
Abilities: May not melee attack, +10% bonus vs. Cities, no defensive bonuses, limited visibility, must set up to range attack
and not a machine gun elephant
War Elephant
Movement: 3; Strength: 6; Ranged Strength: 8; Range: 2; Cost: 80; Required Resources: none
Abilities: May not melee attack, no defensive bonuses.
Notes: Indian Unique Unit; replaces Chariot Archer.
After i conquered 12-13 of my enemies i decided that prince difculty was not enough (as it was in civ 4 - i never won a game on more than that) and tried on immortal.. gues what - SAME THING... only this time while i was fighting washington i managed to "liberate" venice and they were so happy that they became my ... friends ???? with 90/60 influence... and japan was their new ally... the strange thing was that japan was eliminated by me 50 turns before ...now this is what i call and unfinished beta release... Folowing come the atachments with the screenshots (u can test in game by urself the mega elefants).

 

[Zelig]

What is imba?

 

[lachootbg]

what is imba?

imbalanced

 

[vmxa]

Ouch, that is crazy. The problem will be that any fix to some of those items will take a lot of testing. What I am I saying, I mean needs alot of testing.

 

[Dux1]

So if you really try to exploit the AI and ruin your fun, you can exploit the AI and ruin your fun. The best way to fix this problem is to simply not do it.

 

[drachasor]

So if you really try to exploit the AI and ruin your fun, you can exploit the AI and ruin your fun. The best way to fix this problem is to simply not do it.

This is a bug forum. The AI here is clearly not behaving sensibly and needs to get fixed.

 

[Dux1]

The AI will always be exploitable. This has been true of every game ever. If you fix this issue, another exploit will be found soon afterward.

 

[lachootbg]

The AI will always be exploitable. This has been true of every game ever. If you fix this issue, another exploit will be found soon afterward.

I really didnt want to comment ur previous post, but i see u insist on arguing. I will tell u why is this exploit possible in civ 5 and NOT POSSIBLE IN CIV 4. First in civ5 u can purchase a unit while u simultaniously build other stuff, and second but most inmportant in civ4 when someone gave u money u were FORSED IN PEACE TREATY U couldnt brake for some amount of turns and this way u couldnt offer the same thing 22 times and than declare war in one turn. Get it ??? SO ONCE AGAIN --> CIV 5 IS BAD DONE. I am sure they knew there would be enough ppl who will do them the job of testing the beta they released not for free but even worse -PAYING 50 € TO DO IT.

On the other hand i dont see u saying nothing about the cheap elefant bombarder compared to the catapult or the venice city state bug ( and i have more such things i could post, but i dont see the point ...)

 

[ds61514]

First in civ5 u can purchase a unit while u simultaniously build other stuff, and second but most inmportant in civ4 when someone gave u money u were FORSED IN PEACE TREATY U couldnt brake for some amount of turns and this way u couldnt offer the same thing 22 times and than declare war in one turn.

1. You can draft + produce in Civ 4.

2. The 10-turn peace treaty wasn't implemented until BTS, and I think it was removed in Patch 3.19. And you never sold one tech for thousands of gold?

 

[lachootbg]

1. You can draft + produce in Civ 4.

2. The 10-turn peace treaty wasn't implemented until BTS, and I think it was removed in Patch 3.19. And you never sold one tech for thousands of gold?

1. u could draft 9 elephants in 3 turns in 1810 BC from 2 cities at lvl 1 and a capital lvl 6 ??

2. bts is not civ 4 ???? bts is not BEFORE civ5 ???? what tech could u deal for 1000 g in 1810 BC ?? (while having only 4-5 techs and none of them alows u to tech trade) ???

3. i see u didnt get the point of my post... and still dont see any coment about the elephants or the other bug

 

[MAntoninus]

Farming the AI for gold is going to go away.

We should enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[ds61514]

1. u could draft 9 elephants in 3 turns in 1810 BC from 2 cities at lvl 1 and a capital lvl 6 ??

I couldn't do that in Civ 4. Instead, I just whipped+chopped out 10 war chariots and destroyed my neighbor .

2. bts is not civ 4 ???? bts is not BEFORE civ5 ???? what tech could u deal for 1000 g in 1810 BC ?? (while having only 4-5 techs and none of them alows u to tech trade)

Gold wasn't really needed in early game Civ4. I think my record for selling tech was something like ~3000g for education .

 

[dannythefool]

i dont see why should i use catapults

You compared their melee strength, but neither unit can melee attack, so this is only relevant for defense. The catapult has a much higher ranged strength and on top of that gets +10% when attacking cities. So you're looking at 15.4 for the catapult vs 8 for the elephant when attacking cities. Note that the slightly higher melee strength of the elephants is also somewhat offset by their vulnerability to pikemen.

i managed to "liberate" venice and they were so happy that they became my ... friends ???? with 90/60 influence... and japan was their new ally...

There are two possibilities:
1) Japan paid more and has more influence than 90, so you can't displace them as the ally. (Eliminated civs shouldn't count I think even if the CS is hoping that the Japanese will be liberated, so this could be a bug.)
2) The game routinely only makes me an ally a turn late, apparently you can only move up one step per turn, so you'll be at friend first and then become an ally on the next turn.

 

[glaivemaster]

No comment on anything else, but War Elephants are a special unit only the Indians have access to. Beside what dannythefool correctly said about catapults actually being stronger than elephants (at the cost of iron and being a slow siege unit), it shouldn't be surprising that the Elephants are good: special units are designed to be better than most other units of their era. Otherwise, what would be the point of them? No-one wants to look at what their awesome unique unit is and discover that actually, it's *worse* than everything else around

 

[Lord Monkey]

First off, super painful to make sense of the first post. Not trying to flame, but spell check called, it missed you.

Secondly, yes, you exploited the AI and the DoW system (which have both been firmly established as wonky and broken) to get a ton of gold, then spammed a powerful unit. That doesn't make the elephant overpowered. It makes this particular method of exploiting gold from computer players overpowered. I would recommend just not doing it, find a nice modder to help you remove the ability to do it, or wait for a patch to fix it.

P.S. I've heard all the "this isn't a finished product!!" rantings. I know it shouldn't be acceptable as an industry standard to beta test on your customers. The fact that the game needs patched remains, and no amount of "but that's not fair!"ing is going to change it.