[Bug?] Foreign Monarch diplomacy malus when joining their war against rebels

[serenity01]

P.S. EPIC MOD! Really love this mod, been playing it on and off, made Civ4 Col what it needed to be and more! Thank you so much for revisiting this with updated features and bugfixes!


Having said that, I encountered an issue, and have some questions:

Per the title, in my last game, the Russia Czar/Monarch asked me to join his war against the Russian Colonies' war of independence. After I agreed to join him, the DoW against the Russian Colonies caused me to have a "You declared war on us -3" attitude malus with the Russian Monarch... yet it also gave me a "You agreed to help us +1" and a "This military struggle brings us closer together +2" all at the same time...

I don't think it makes any sense at all that the player should get the "You declared war on us" penalty with the Russian Monarch when we joined the war on his side to help him (this isn't Civ6 warmonger diplomacy ). I know if I DoW on the Russian Colonies in general, I would get the penalty, but it shouldn't be in this case, right?


Along the same thread of thought, some questions:
1) Is there any other way in-game to boost relation with foreign monarch, other than through specific Founding Fathers? I know we can use the Pope to boost our relation with other Colonies and our King. It seems like war ruins relationship with foreign monarchs, but there is no option to raise relations with them at all (other than helping them fight their rebellious colonies, which they also treat as a war against themselves, so no positive relationship gain there whatsoever lol).

2) When other powers offer their military support to the player during the War of Independence, is it based on relationship with the Colonies, their Monarchs, a combination of both, or just purely random? I tested having positive/neutral relations with all colonies except Russia, and it seems I received a random number of support, like randomly from 1-5 nations (reloading before declaring independence randomizes whose support I get, it seems). E.G. sometimes Sweden (neutral) and Spain (Pleased) supported me, other times it was just France (Pleased), or just the Danish (neutral), and once I got 5 other nations to offer support, etc...seemed totally random except I don't think I ever got the Russians (Annoyed) to offer support.

3) Do foreign powers offer their military support during the WOI only once in the beginning, or is there anything the player can do to gain the support of another nation later during the WOI? For example, if I have good relations with Spain but she did not offer her support when I declared independence, is there any way to gain it later? Or is save-scumming and getting a good combo of support at the beginning of the WOI the only way to manipulate support?

4) What triggers the "100 turns to win" countdown? Is it as soon as any colony declares independence?

 

[Nightinggale]

Per the title, in my last game, the Russia Czar/Monarch asked me to join his war against the Russian Colonies' war of independence. After I agreed to join him, the DoW against the Russian Colonies caused me to have a "You declared war on us -3" attitude malus with the Russian Monarch... yet it also gave me a "You agreed to help us +1" and a "This military struggle brings us closer together +2" all at the same time...

Sure sounds like a bug. War declaration is called in CvPlayer::handleDiploEvent()->CvTeam::declareWar->CvTeam::declareWarNoRevolution(). My theory is that if you declare war on a European (Russia), the parent of that player (the Czar) will remember this. It makes perfect sense before a revolution, but not during the war of independence. However the precise location of where the parent gains the memory eludes me. Are you sure the Czar gained this memory when you declared war on Russia? Is there a chance it could be a leftover from earlier events?

4) What triggers the "100 turns to win" countdown? Is it as soon as any colony declares independence?

In vanilla, timed victory will automatically make you declare independent after 300 turns if you haven't done so already. You then either beat the king or survive 100 turns and it's 100 even if you declared independence early. I can't remember if it's modded in RaR because I always turn time victory off. I don't like potentially not being the strongest and still win on time.

Sounds like a bug if it tells you that you will win if you survive 100 turns of an AI's war of independence.

 

[serenity01]

Thanks for the quick response!

Are you sure the Czar gained this memory when you declared war on Russia? Is there a chance it could be a leftover from earlier events?

Yes, I confirm that I only ever went to war with the Russian Colonies once, at behest of their Czar. I have no other previous interaction or diplo modifiers otherwise (other than the "Years of Peace +X")
I suspect my war started right at the moment the Russian Colonies declared independence, and the Czar asked for my help, which possibly happened before the actual war with the Czar started?
I should also note that I am using the latest available Beta 2 build. And I also modded all diplomatic memory duration to "0" which I think means no one ever forgets +/- boni. I didn't mod anything else with diplomacy or relations, as far as I know.

In vanilla, timed victory will automatically make you declare independent after 300 turns if you haven't done so already. You then either beat the king or survive 100 turns and it's 100 even if you declared independence early. I can't remember if it's modded in RaR because I always turn time victory off. I don't like potentially not being the strongest and still win on time.

Sounds like a bug if it tells you that you will win if you survive 100 turns of an AI's war of independence.

Note I can't stand to play vanilla after the RAR experience, so I never go back

In my last game and my previous "AI-only test game" I only used Independence Victory, no other conditions. I changed the GameSpeed to 1-month increment (1 turn per month) and 100000 turns per increment (basically I wanted to allow "infinite turns"). As far as I could tell, I was at turn 800-900 when the Win-Timer countdown started.

I didn't notice when the timer started, but (coincidentally?) it was some time after the Russian Colonies declared independence; it was down to ~50 turns by the time I noticed.
I just remember seeing the timer pop-up also in the AI-only test game (also some time after another colony declared independence), where the player(AI) colony actually lost the game when the timer reached 0.
I my last game, I just bum rushed my independence after I noticed the timer, and wiped out the REF on the very last turn, and then it showed a victory.

I was just wondering what triggers the countdown under Independence Victory conditions. So it looks like when another colony declares independence before the player, we need to find a way to win the game once the timer starts, or we lose.


On an opinionated side-note, fighting on the side of the Czar during the Russian WoI made me realize how ridiculously pathetic the REF forces faced by the AI colonies are compared to the massive scale of REF that players face! So, from observation, it is very easy for the AI to "default" its way through Independence Victory within a variable time frame, which rather makes an Independence Victory condition (with the Timer Victory off) really just a "Variable Timer Victory" condition.


Thanks for the insights!

 

[devolution]

@serenity01

Thanks for reporting this issue (see spoiler). I can confirm that I inadvertently introduced it while implementing a penalty for warmongering with other Europeans. I wanted such actions to have more consequences and anger their king. However, it seems that I forgot to check if the target player was already at war with his king, in that case there should logically be no penalty for the declaration of war

I will add a fix in beta3

Spoiler Commit details :

Author: Erik Sandbraaten <erik.sandbraaten@gmail.com> 2018-02-13 22:34:52
Committer: Erik Sandbraaten <erik.sandbraaten@gmail.com> 2018-02-13 22:34:52
Parent: 05a714effec1df50decaa7f21545b582d25ace31 (BUG33: Ships that enter the map after returning from a port will no longer risk being placed on impassable terrain (e.g. ice))
Child: cd8aee35dc685552344c2acc0025e2b2cf611ba5 (EXP4: To receive revolutionary support, we now require the player to be on good terms with the potential supporter's king as well)
Branches: develop-2_7_1, remotes/origin/develop-2_7_1
Follows: 2.7
Precedes:
EXP3: If war is declared on another European nation, the aggressor will receive a major diplomatic attitude penalty with its king as well

 

[devolution]

Ok, I have added a fix for this in beta3

 

[Sarin]

Does the penalty ever decay? Right now I'm in the game where I had to declare war early to three European colonies because they all decided to forward settle my area. Being very early in game, I had no problem beating them down, but I worry about the lack of support from other Europeans later, by providing Continental Guards and support during WOI.