Building (vicious cycle?)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Azkonus, Apr 6, 2006.

  1. Azkonus

    Azkonus Prince

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    Allright guys, here is the thing I hope you give me some tips here

    From the very beginning of the game, I build stuff like (granaries,barracks,theathers etc) then another thing pops up then I build that too because it gives me culture or happinies, then my city grows, then since my city is now populated they call for other improvements which makes my city bigger then needs other ....


    It's like OK I go for bigger more productive cities, and at the end I get them. However then it always be too late to be effective in the game.

    So do you think the buildings are just hold you back in the early game to mid game? Should I instead just build up my army and keep my cities angry and cultureless?
     
  2. Captain Pugwash

    Captain Pugwash Warlord

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    You are on the right track to question what to build. Build only the minimum that the city needs. If a city is going to spend the whole game churning out troops, it only needs a barracks and maybe an obelisk or something to make it expand. At the end of the game, many cities will have only 3 or 4 buildings. Only the financial powerhouse cities will need a lot of markets and banks and such.

    Of course, I play for military victory (domination) so it may be different if you aim for something else.
     
  3. Chamaedrys

    Chamaedrys Emperor

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    Yes, build only what you need. Personly I start with buildings after I founded 3-4 cities and have Stonehenge and 1-3 worker. But thats just my strategy.
    It is also the question how long the construction of a building take. Some Buildings are cheaper if you certain rescources or Leader traits. Example: The Expansive Traits reduces the cost of habour and granaries. So I can afford it to build them in every city. If your Leader has other traits you will need another strategy.
     
  4. Malarkey

    Malarkey Chieftain

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    I agree with the other posters here. City specialization is pretty important in this game. If you're building a city for just military, it only makes sense to add forges/factories/barricks/etc in them, while leaving out markets/grocers and such, unless you run into problems with happyness/health in that city. Courthouses however should be built in every city. I usually leave forges out of my commerce producing cities, since buildings that give unhealthiness can stunt growth, when you want to maximize commerce early on. That's just my strategy though.
     
  5. The Tyrant

    The Tyrant Prince

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    As others have said, city specialization is key. If you reach the point where a city has nothing in its area of specialization to build, and you can build something else, the general rule I follow is simple: Don't. That's right. The commerce city can now build a drydock? Don't. Build units instead. Combat unit, missionary, whatever. You can always use units. If the unit upkeep cost gets too high, then.... wait a minute. That's not a problem -- that's an indication its time to go knock some heads. :)
     
  6. Ovidian

    Ovidian Chieftain

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    One particular thing that helps me when figuring out what to build and when is keeping a close eye on my Tech progression. I try to time things so that once I complete a Tech, I've got at least one city ready to build it. If I deem that building important, I'll have several cities ready right at that turn. Chamaedrys had a great point by following your Leader's traits. Currently, I'm playing Catherine, so I was ready with almost half my cities when I finished Banking. After that, every city got a bank eventually.

    The Tyrant also had a great point about not neglecting your army. When I first began, I loved building everything everywhere. Didn't really have a solid plan. As I played more, I began to specialize cities and sort of figure out that I didn't need every building in every city. That's when my struggling in Civ4 eased up. My economy began to boom and my army afforded me many options of play style.

    Overall, I still love building, especially the wonders. But once I learned how to streamline things, the game really opened up. I still occasionally build things in cities that don't need it, but my large army affords me that luxury. Good luck...
     
  7. Older than Dirt

    Older than Dirt King

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    Specialize. Why build a barracks in every city (especially at the start) when a city may be making settlers or workers or wonders and such? Build West Point in a city and just crank out the troops rather than build an airport or Broadway there.
     
  8. Azkonus

    Azkonus Prince

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    Thank you all of you guys,

    Captain Pugwash,Chamedrys,Malarkey,The Tyrant,Ovidian,Older than Dirt for your valuable opinions.

    I think now I understand that city specialization is the key.

    Ovidian put my gamestyle into words better than me. :goodjob:

    The remaining question though, If you just build barracks for the military cities far away from your capital and close to you enemies, how do you prevent flipping your cities? :confused:
     
  9. Antoninus

    Antoninus Chieftain

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    In that particular situation, you may have to build culture buildings to keep it from flipping, but if you think about it you're still specializing that city. You're responding to the city's particular needs. The same city in the middle of your Civ won't need those same buildings. And since it's a high production city, with lots of yummy hammers, the buildings go up fairly quickly anyway.

    I agree with the other posts. Specialization of my cities was the major breakthrough in my thinking which allowed me to play at the next highest difficulty level.
     
  10. Ovidian

    Ovidian Chieftain

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    Hmmm, a couple of things here. First, you mention the distance between your "military cities" and your capital. The only thing that the distance truly affects is the maintenance costs for those particular cities. You don't get any sort of bonus for being close to home.

    Secondly, it concerns me that your cities are flipping in the first place. What may help you is thinking of Culture as a weapon. Yes, odd in a way, but it truly is. If you and I share a border with cities somewhat close to each other, I'm going to start pouring out Culture. Theatres, Libraries, Universities, Temples, Cathedrals (of the proper religion), maybe a cheap wonder, basically, anything I can build without really disrupting my overall plans. What this will do is push the border towards you. I'm not only taking your land, but I'm weakening your city at the same time because you're losing resources and I'm gaining them. All this without a shot fired. If that isn't a weapon, it comes awfully close.

    I also play with extreme paranoia. If I lose even one single tile along a border, it gets my immediate attention. If fact, I look at that as an act of war. I'll start pumping out culture to regain it and in the mean time, my army is making it's over there. I don't like people stepping on my grass...and as the saying goes "Blood makes the grass grow." ;)

    Lastly, it's really at this point where the game will start coming together for you. You've got the war aspect down, you've begun to specialize cities and soon you'll be slinging around some culture. Throw in religion, the proper civics, keep an eye on the research rate and suddenly, the game becomes much more fun and rewarding. And don't worry, it took me a while to get the hang of it. I'm no expert or anything, but I'm holding my own and having fun while doing it. These forums have helped my game tremendously. Don't be afraid to go 10-15 pages deep, you'll find posts that are absolute gems. Good luck...:)
     
  11. Captain Pugwash

    Captain Pugwash Warlord

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    Here is a point worth considering. If I have cities which are churning out troops and I reach a point in the game when I don't need any more troops or can't afford them, I set the cities to science or wealth rather than be tempted to add buildings they don't need. It's surprising how this can make a difference to the wealth and science.

    Of course, I'm at war most of the time so this doesn't happen very often :)
     
  12. zeeter

    zeeter Emperor

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    I'm not sure that I buy this whole city specialization thing. Sure - if I have an island city that's sole purpose is to give me access to Oil or something I'll probably just build enough to keep my culture high enough so that it doesn't flip.

    However, my continental cities are different. Certainly I am not going to build an Aqueduct or something in a city that is healthy. And my internal cities don't necessarily need culture improvements. However, every bit of gold helps. Theres nothing wrong with building markets and groceries in every city. They help your economy.
     
  13. The Tyrant

    The Tyrant Prince

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    I'll often build money-making buildings in production cities, if they also have enough commerce coming in to warrant it. As you noted, they help your economy. More money means higher research rates, quicker upgrades, and easier rush-buying.

    However, I would not go so far as to say every city should have them. Many cities just don't have enough money coming in to make it worthwhile. Sure, you might get three more gold each turn for the rest of the game from that city, but if that is a miniscule proportion of your GNP, then it is better to place those cities on autobuild:cavalry. With the units those cities build, you can take a good commerce city from an opponent, and that will more than make up the difference.

    If you're playing for a peaceful victory condition and only want a strong enough military to deter invaders, then you might be okay with spamming markets and groceries. If you plan on flexing your military muscle, then most of the low commerce cities should be production cities that don't try to be anything else.
     
  14. zeeter

    zeeter Emperor

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    True, however a market takes, what, 20 turns? Same with a grocery. The military units that could be built take around five or six turns at around this era. So that's three or four less units for a gold increase. If we have ten or twelve cities and build markets in those six that we wouldn't normally build them in, then that is 18 more gold. Could be enough to raise the tech or culture scale up 10%.
     

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