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Buildings

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall of the Greek World' started by Arkaeyn, Oct 18, 2009.

  1. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Now that we're putting together a more fleshed-out tech tree, we need buildings to go along with them. Check the tech tree thread or the wiki to see what the new techs are.

    Another consideration - in normal Civ4, there's a pretty straightforward progression of buildings. There's an ancient or classical version of a building, and then a renaissance-to-modern version or two, which improves the original. Like so -

    Library -> University
    Market -> Grocer -> Bank
    Courthouse -> Jail

    We don't have those upgrades. By and large, there's only one building that improves each part of the game. So the easiest way to brainstorm would be look for preliminary or improvements to the ancient buildings.

    For example, with Logging (an early tech) the player should be able to build Stockades, a weaker, wooden wall. City Walls, later, are now the improvement to that.
     
  2. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    reserved!!!!!
     
  3. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    First of all I think the Amphitheatre should be split into two buildings, one will be like a general building which gives +1 happiness and is available earlier than construction, and the other a true Amphitheatre-like building for gladitorial matches and what not, which will give happiness and extra happiness with say, slaves, if that will be a resource, or maybe under a certain civic. Basically it will give 1 happiness plus extra happiness if some limits are fulfilled and it will be available late in the game and will cost a lot of hammers.
    Also grocer could be renamed and it's tech requirement changed, and both it and market should allow only 1 merchant.
    Hmm what else, rename Forge to Blacksmith maybe? Running out of ideas for now.
     
  4. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    I'm fairly certain a Tavern/Brothel natured building is needed. Happiness with Wheat and Wine, and gives solid bonus to espionage (+2:espionage:). Available around the same time Wineries are allowed. (Brewery tech?) Not too powerful but certainly an administrational relief.
     
  5. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    I just suggested an Amphora tech, so having a Wine Press as a building is entirely doable. Not sure about Tavern/Brothel, they seem more medieval variations.

    I like the idea of moving the Market and Grocer up the tech tree. That makes sense.

    I'm wary of production-boosting buildings until we can play balance the later eras. As Steb noticed, we're sorely lacking in late-game techs.

    Scanning Wikipedia, I note that early libraries were primarily archives of contracts and transactions, while it was later on that they became centers of learning. So perhaps a building like an Archive which has slight boosts to commerce and research but allows building of libraries for a bigger boost.
     
  6. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    Should libraries then have what effect exactly? Bonus to espionage or science? +25%:gp: rate (I feel that this bonus is widely neglected)?
     
  7. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Libraries being, say, 50% research?

    A GP boosting building is a good idea, but I'm not sure if it should be Library.
     
  8. Metal Alloy Man

    Metal Alloy Man Back in Black

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    Archive was in the Civ 3 ancient world scenario and makes sense.
     
  9. Steb

    Steb Chieftain

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    Then Archive could be unlocked with Writing and Library pushed to, say, Philosophy.

    Also Rhye had suggested a Slave Market building, but I'm not sure what it would exactly do.
     
  10. Rathaus

    Rathaus Chieftain

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    Trade was quite important in classical antiquity, so perhaps some buildings that improve trade routes and trade yield would be good.

    maybe something like... Lighthouse -> Inn -> Bazaar -> Public Basilica
    The slave market could also be thrown in there somewhere.
     
  11. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    Perhaps the building which will enhance GP% will be a gymnasium? It could have something to do with the Olympics, maybe it requires an Olympic national wonder to be built before a gymnasium could be built or the other way around.
     
  12. GeoModder

    GeoModder Chieftain

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    Well, if the Roman Forum (market replacement) can give a boost to :gp:'s, why shouldn't a library?
     
  13. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Unique buildings are a different category, in my opinion.

    Ideally in my view, a GP-enhancing building wouldn't be one of the buildings used to otherwise acquire GP. Library is scientist, Forge is engineer, etc, so building one of those already leads towards boosting GP production, and would unfairly benefit the production of that particular style of GP.

    On the other hand, perhaps adding a small GP boost to ALL of those buildings could work, which would imply that diversified cities collect great people, regardless of which specific GPs are being targeted. That's somewhat outside the scope of Rhye's usual modding philosophy, but not really a bad idea.
     
  14. Metal Alloy Man

    Metal Alloy Man Back in Black

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    I really like this idea.:p It does a good job of reperesenting how diversified cities are important, something that isn't really done in RFC or regular civ.
     
  15. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    That's because "diversification" is the opposite of the Civ IV design philosophy, which is "specialisation". RFC takes a big step towards diversification with all-round strong city sites, whereas vanilla Civ rewards specialising cities into GP farm, commerce, research, gold/shrine/corporation and production/military much more, due to greater geographic homogeneity of resources. So it's natural that they don't want to reward players with general rather than specific benefits. e.g. there are lots of buildings that grant extra beakers/gold/trade but none that grant extra base commerce.
     
  16. Rathaus

    Rathaus Chieftain

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    I've made a list of buildings we could potentially use. Right now, the number of buildings we have is very limited. For example, we only have one building that contributes to research (Library). To fix this, I've taken buildings and then expanded them out into different eras so they have straightforward progression.

    I think we need more than one building that gives +% :hammers: For production buildings, we could do something like:
    Blacksmith/Forge: requires Metal Casting, +1:yuck:, +15%:hammers:, +5%:hammers: with Iron, +5%:hammers: with Copper
    Mason Workshop: requires Engineering, +15%:hammers:, +5%:hammers: with Stone, +5%:hammers: with Marble

    For research:
    Archive: requires Writing, +25%:science:
    Library: requires Alphabet, +20%:science:
    School of Philosophy: requires Education, +20%:science:, +50%:gp: (perhaps only available to Greeks)

    For wealth:
    Barter Market: requires Trade, +25%:gold:
    which leads to Grocers and Markets

    For health:
    Sleep Temple: requires Herbalism, +1:health:, units healed 10% per turn
    Aqueduct as normal
    Sewers: requires Machinery?, +2:health:, reduced effect of plague

    Trade:
    Tavern/Symposium?, requires Amphora,+1:), +50% trade route yield
    Lighthouse as normal
    Bazaar, requires Currency, +100% foreign trade route yield, +1:) from Gold, Silver

    Stability buildings:
    Courthouse as normal
    Basilica, requires Republicanism, -25% maintenance, +stability

    Misc:
    Brothel?, +2:), +1:yuck:, +2:espionage:

    If you like these ideas, I'd be happy to go through the XML files and add them in, as well as look for some graphics to use for them.
     
  17. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Forge and Workshop seem fine.

    Making the Archive and the Library almost identical doesn't seem best. Maybe move the Library later down the tech tree and make it +50%? The School of Philosophy (Academy) already kind of exists in Civ4, as the Great Scientist building, and specific variations on the academy may turn into wonders.

    Having a Barter Market and a regular market seems redundant. I'd say move the regular market to Trade and the Grocer to currency, and maybe make it a little stronger.

    We have a Medicine tech to use for health. I agree that something should go along with Herbalism, but Sleep Temple seems odd. I suppose that's more because I've never heard of them. ;-) There's also Public Baths, very important for the Romans.

    The trade stuff seems good, although the numbers may need tweaking.

    Stability good as well.

    Like I said above, people love adding things like Taverns and Brothels, but I don't know that they really make sense.
     
  18. Rathaus

    Rathaus Chieftain

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    I think you're right about the wealth/research buildings. We do have enough of them already. For health buildings, we could do something like a Herbalist or Shaman's Hut which requires the Herbalism tech. For the Medicine tech, I imagine something like a Medical School could work. Although it does sound too modern, it is historically accurate as the Romans and Greeks both had schools designed for aspiring physicians.

    Perhaps for an early trade building we could use a Weaver instead of a tavern, which provides +50% trade route yield, along with an extra +75% trade route yield with Tyrian Purple. (the resource Phoenicians relied on for trade) This means that Phoenicia can have a strong enough economy to colonise enough foreign land as they did in history. To balance it out, the weaver can become obsolete fairly early, to simulate the decline of Phoenician trade after a certain period of time.

    If you like, I should be able to add the XML in for the Basilica and Bazaar as well as the graphics for both.
     
  19. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Weaver sounds like it would be good as a UB for the Phoenicians. Would it be historically valid for all civs, however?

    Isn't Bazaar usually just a synonym for Market? I like the bonus, but differentiation can be important. If anything, the bonus fits better for the Bazaar (trade routes) than the Market's. Tax collector might be more accurate for a +:gold: bonus.

    Basilica and Archive are definitely good, though. I've been busy the last couple of days, so I hope you're already up on that.
     

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