Burnt Alive For Changing Religion

[mrt144]

Croatia, unless I'm mistaken.

I thought croatians hated the gays.

 

[Simple Simon]

If you had ever bothered to read what the Quran actually says (which I doubt) You would realize that it is no more totalitarian than the Old Testament and even less racist and bigoted than Christianity in its many forms.

So? Doesn't mean he is wrong. Only says something about Christianity. No wonder, btw, since both the christians and the muslims 'stole' from the jews a lot of their basic ideas and morals.

In the early years it was very expansionist and brutal in its attempt to spread the faith to the known world. As was Christianity throughout its history. "bent on world conquest" sounds like it was lifted straight out of some 40's McCarthyite rant or one of your friend Pannonius' favorite comic books.

if YOU had read the Quran, then you'd know that most of the often-cited 'get along' verses are old, and lots of the hateful and intolerant stuff is new. And you'd know that
the vast majority of Islamic clerics agrees that younger text trumps older text.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

if YOU had read the Quran, then you'd know that most of the often-cited 'get along' verses are old, and lots of the hateful and intolerant stuff is new. And you'd know that
the vast majority of Islamic clerics agrees that younger text trumps older text.

At risk of sounding ridiculous in responding to Simple Simon unsimply:

Not precisely true. What do the newer verses say? They say "you can ignore the get along verses for now, since if you do you'll all be killed." Clearly, it's a contextual message to the post-Hegira Islamic state in Medina, and permission to defend and retaliate against attacks on the Ummah (Muslim nation), since mere defense wouldn't be sufficient to end or deter attack (to use a neorealist IR analysis, there was no way to differentiate between offensive and defensive power and the offense had the advantage in ancient Arabia: a doubly-unstable situation, since there was a [wiki]security dilemma[/wiki] and if you didn't attack, you would be attacked and lose.

 

[jessiecat]

At risk of sounding ridiculous in responding to Simple Simon unsimply:

Not precisely true. What do the newer verses say? They say "you can ignore the get along verses for now, since if you do you'll all be killed." Clearly, it's a contextual message to the post-Hegira Islamic state in Medina, and permission to defend and retaliate against attacks on the Ummah (Muslim nation), since mere defense wouldn't be sufficient to end or deter attack (to use a neorealist IR analysis, there was no way to differentiate between offensive and defensive power and the offense had the advantage in ancient Arabia: a doubly-unstable situation, since there was a [wiki]security dilemma[/wiki] and if you didn't attack, you would be attacked and lose.

Thanks for yours and earlier explanations. While I have tried to be even-handed and rational in
this debate, I fully admit my expertise on the subject can never match yours or others with
direct experience of the faith. However, I do try to expose and condemn the kind of irrational
hatred and bigotry too often seen in many posts on this forum.

 

[Shadylookin]

be careful your random guess about who created the universe is serious business.

 

[jessiecat]

be careful your random guess about who created the universe is serious business.

None of the above is a safe bet.

 

[warpus]

My money's on Steve

 

[silver 2039]

Whoa finally someone who knows what their talking about with regard to Islam.

 

[plarq]

Burned dead for sticking to a religion.

 

[Simple Simon]

At risk of sounding ridiculous in responding to Simple Simon unsimply:

Not precisely true. What do the newer verses say? They say "you can ignore the get along verses for now, since if you do you'll all be killed." Clearly, it's a contextual message to the post-Hegira Islamic state in Medina, and permission to defend and retaliate against attacks on the Ummah (Muslim nation), since mere defense wouldn't be sufficient to end or deter attack (to use a neorealist IR analysis, there was no way to differentiate between offensive and defensive power and the offense had the advantage in ancient Arabia: a doubly-unstable situation, since there was a [wiki]security dilemma[/wiki] and if you didn't attack, you would be attacked and lose.

That sounds very great - how come the three Imams I talked to in the last ten years (all Sunni) disagree? Is there wide debate about this in the Muslim world?


EDIT: and THANK YOU! it is important to get good proper studied info on such important issues!

 

[frekk]

And some religions suck more than others.

Maybe, but it's safe to say the top three in the running are all variations on a theme: Abrahamic.

 

[aronnax]

My question is: what the heck is the true, correct Islam? Which country adheres to the "modern Islamic practice and belief"? And what makes...

Not exactly the main face of Islam, but Islam in Singapore has worked out perfectly well if you ask me. The lives of a Muslim is judged by both a Sharia and/or Legal Court when the situation arrives. For Example, murder and drug trafficking will be trialed under Singapore Law but things regarding Marriage and inheritance go under Islamic interpretation.

The goverment even helps to keep up the rules of the 5 pillars of Islam by taking a tiny portion of a working Muslim's income as donations for the poor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam#Zakaat

Im not sure what the goverment did, but I am pretty sure that the goverment has sucessfully intergrated Muslim society with the aspects of modern life. Sometimes I think they do too good of a job because when I ask one of the four Muslim students in my class a question about their religion, they sometimes do not know the answer.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Not exactly the main face of Islam, but Islam in Singapore has worked out perfectly well if you ask me. The lives of a Muslim is judged by both a Sharia and/or Legal Court when the situation arrives. For Example, murder and drug trafficking will be trialed under Singapore Law but things regarding Marriage and inheritance go under Islamic interpretation.

The goverment even helps to keep up the rules of the 5 pillars of Islam by taking a tiny portion of a working Muslim's income as donations for the poor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam#Zakaat

Im not sure what the goverment did, but I am pretty sure that the goverment has sucessfully intergrated Muslim society with the aspects of modern life. Sometimes I think they do too good of a job because when I ask one of the four Muslim students in my class a question about their religion, they sometimes do not know the answer.

This is all interesting to hear, but the business of having Zakaat managed automatically by the government is disturbing. Zakaat is supposed to be a test of faith and personal generosity; you're supposed to remember to give, and also not do it because you have to, but because it is good for you to give to others. Having the government do it for you misses the point.

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